Computers & Electronics

Does dry loop dsl work with cable?

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  • Dec 2nd, 2020 10:59 am
[OP]
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Mar 6, 2010
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Brampton

Does dry loop dsl work with cable?

My guess is that it does but considering that there will no dsl or fttn, i would like to be sure.
Those of you who have cable instead of dsl or fttn, have you ever used naked dsl (dry loop dsl) without a regular telephone line?
Thanks, in advance.
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Used it for what?
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Could you re-state your question? I'm not understanding what you're asking.

If you're wondering whether you can have both cable and DSL running at the time, the answer is yes.
Last edited by Dave98 on Dec 2nd, 2020 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Cable (for TV, internet, or phone) is completely independent from your copper phone line (for POTS, DSL, or VDSL for faster internet and TV). You can split your services between them, or have both duplicated.

However, for historical reasons the phone company is allowed to charge you a monthly "dry loop" fee for the use of your phone line for DSL/VDSL if you don't buy your telephone/internet/TV service from the phone company. The amount varies in different parts of the country. It's one of the barriers to cheap DSL internet. There is no such equivalent fee for the use of your cable.
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luking wrote: My guess is that it does but considering that there will no dsl or fttn, i would like to be sure.
Those of you who have cable instead of dsl or fttn, have you ever used naked dsl (dry loop dsl) without a regular telephone line?
Thanks, in advance.
Dry loop DSL still use phone line, Not Coaxial cable
A dry loop is an unconditioned leased pair of telephone line from a telephone company. The pair does not provide dial tone or battery (continuous electric potential), as opposed to a wet pair, a line usually without dial tone but with battery. ... The pair in many cases goes through the local telephone exchange.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_loop# ... 20exchange.
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[OP]
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Mar 6, 2010
669 posts
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Brampton
Dave98 wrote: Could you re-state your question? I'm not understanding what you're asking.

If you're wondering whether you can have both cable and DSL running at the time, the answer is yes.
Scote64 wrote: Cable (for TV, internet, or phone) is completely independent from your copper phone line (for POTS, DSL, or VDSL for faster internet and TV). You can split your services between them, or have both duplicated.

However, for historical reasons the phone company is allowed to charge you a monthly "dry loop" fee for the use of your phone line for DSL/VDSL if you don't buy your telephone/internet/TV service from the phone company. The amount varies in different parts of the country. It's one of the barriers to cheap DSL internet. There is no such equivalent fee for the use of your cable.
Keigotw wrote: Dry loop DSL still use phone line, Not Coaxial cable
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_loop# ... 20exchange.
JAC wrote: Used it for what?
Sorry I wasn't so clear.
To use dry loop dsl or voip, one needs internet conenction.
My question is - can I use cable or am i limited to using dsl/fttn?
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luking wrote: Sorry I wasn't so clear.
To use dry loop dsl or voip, one needs internet conenction.
My question is - can I use cable or am i limited to using dsl/fttn?
I think you are confusing yourself and others. It is the other way around:
To use/have the Internet one either has to have a "dry loop" for DSL or a cable connection. Voip itself requires an Internet connection, be it DSL or Cable. (or one of the other variations, VDSL, etc.)
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luking wrote: Sorry I wasn't so clear.
To use dry loop dsl or voip, one needs internet conenction.
My question is - can I use cable or am i limited to using dsl/fttn?
"Dry loop DSL" is an internet connection. Just like cable internet, fibre-to-the-home (FTTH), fixed wireless access, direct to home satellite, etc.

VOIP (Voice Over Internet Protocol) is effectively telephone service over the internet. It can be provided over any of those mediums. Sometimes it depends on who's providing it - if you get VOIP service from Shaw or Rogers, they have a FXO port built into the modem, so technically your VOIP is being provided over their cable network. But there are providers that just require an active internet connection, since they don't provide any specific equipment for the service.

If you have an active telephone service with your telephone provider, you have a wet pair. It's conditioned with a continuous electric potential. You plug something into it, you get a dial tone.

If you have a pair without a POTS line, the telephone company is not providing a continuous electric potential. That twisted pair is called a dry loop.

More often than not, you have a couple twisted pairs from the phone provider. In the past, one was a dry loop (for DSL) and one was a wet pair (for POTS). These days, many people just have dry loops, because POTS is less common. Two dry loops can be bonded to provide higher speed xDSL services. But having two twisted pairs is not guaranteed. DSL uses different frequencies from POTS. Both services can run on a single wet pair, with a filter installed line side of the modem to prevent interference. If you have DSL on a wet pair, there will be a brief outage if you cancel POTS and convert to a dry loop.

If your DSL is on a dry loop from someone other than the incumbent, you often need to pay a dry loop fee associated with using the pairs.
Last edited by Dynatos on Dec 2nd, 2020 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Independent VoIP services like those offered by voip.ms or freephoneline.ca or Ooma require only an internet connection, any kind of internet connection from any provider. Could even be a mobile internet connection on your cell phone. Doesn't matter who provides the internet connection or how, as long as your VoIP client app/ATA/phone can access it.

One minor variation to that: the cable companies like Rogers and Shaw offer their own version of VoIP that runs in a dedicated band on their cable networks, which is why they claim their phone service is more reliable than an independent VoIP service. Obviously that requires a cable connection from the cable company. In theory you can even order that cable phone service independently of a cable internet or TV package - but that would be rare.
[OP]
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Mar 6, 2010
669 posts
242 upvotes
Brampton
rcmpvet wrote: I think you are confusing yourself and others. It is the other way around:
To use/have the Internet one either has to have a "dry loop" for DSL or a cable connection. Voip itself requires an Internet connection, be it DSL or Cable. (or one of the other variations, VDSL, etc.)
Dynatos wrote: "Dry loop DSL" is an internet connection. Just like cable internet, fibre-to-the-home (FTTH), fixed wireless access, direct to home satellite, etc.

VOIP (Voice Over Internet Protocol) is effectively telephone service over the internet. It can be provided over any of those mediums. Sometimes it depends on who's providing it - if you get VOIP service from Shaw or Rogers, they have a FXO port built into the modem, so technically your VOIP is being provided over their cable network. But there are providers that just require an active internet connection, since they don't provide any specific equipment for the service.

If you have an active telephone service with your telephone provider, you have a wet pair. It's conditioned with a continuous electric potential. You plug something into it, you get a dial tone.

If you have a pair without a POTS line, the telephone company is not providing a continuous electric potential. That twisted pair is called a dry loop.

More often than not, you have a couple twisted pairs from the phone provider. In the past, one was a dry loop (for DSL) and one was a wet pair (for POTS). These days, many people just have dry loops, because POTS is less common. Two dry loops can be bonded to provide higher speed xDSL services. But having two twisted pairs is not guaranteed. DSL uses different frequencies from POTS. Both services can run on a single wet pair, with a filter installed line side of the modem to prevent interference. If you have DSL on a wet pair, there will be a brief outage if you cancel POTS and convert to a dry loop.

If your DSL is on a dry loop from someone other than the incumbent, you often need to pay a dry loop fee associated with using the pairs.
Scote64 wrote: Independent VoIP services like those offered by voip.ms or freephoneline.ca or Ooma require only an internet connection, any kind of internet connection from any provider. Could even be a mobile internet connection on your cell phone. Doesn't matter who provides the internet connection or how, as long as your VoIP client app/ATA/phone can access it.

One minor variation to that: the cable companies like Rogers and Shaw offer their own version of VoIP that runs in a dedicated band on their cable networks, which is why they claim their phone service is more reliable than an independent VoIP service. Obviously that requires a cable connection from the cable company. In theory you can even order that cable phone service independently of a cable internet or TV package - but that would be rare.
Perfecto!
Thanks a lot for the detailed replies.

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