Computers & Electronics

The Dolphin tells it like it is....

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  • Jul 24th, 2012 3:06 am
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[OP]
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Jul 30, 2003
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miss_swan wrote:Thanks TDD for the info.

I'm kinda bummed out then. I've been backing up my precious digital files/data (pics/vids of family/kids) onto TY dvd-r 4x media (the 100pk, spindle, no label from [rfdlink=/forums/autolink/redirectpage.php?linkid=28]NCIX[/rfdlink]) ... looks like I should have picked up some of that Maxell stuff.

Please keep us updated TDD.
The TY 4x DVD-Rs with TYG01 code are more likely to be fine then the ones with TYG02 code. It's been said for some time though that these 4x DVD-Rs were basically a B Grade disc from Taiyo Yuden, but we didn't really know all the details about WHY they were B Grade (actually, we still don't....).

As I said in the above e-mail though, we don't know how badly the discs will be affected by this problem. We know it's widespread (world wide), and has been a problem for quite some time, so that most 8x DVD
Current DVD Burner Suggestion? Stick with Pioneer
Current suggested recordable media?
CD-Rs = Maxell CD-R Pro, Verbatim Datalife+, Falcon Media Pro
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[OP]
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DVDManiac wrote:Ditto...have all these blanks that may not last as long as I would have hoped. I tried separating the layers on one of those TY 4x from [rfdlink=/forums/autolink/redirectpage.php?linkid=28]ncix[/rfdlink], just spending about 10 seconds trying, I could see air pockets in between the layers...my vision may have been playing tricks on me since it was 6am. I'm assuming the Maxell Professional blanks are not the ones that everyone that has been buying in bulk at FS and Staples these past 10 months. And to think, I have been using the Arco Circles for my least important data but now find out they may last the longest...

Just re-read DD's post, does it mean that Maxell's made by Maxell themselves are okay?
Air pockets = dead disc. If it took you 10 seconds, that's a bad sign. It also means you have longer/stronger fingernails then me :razz:

The Maxell Professional DVDs are only the PLUS series discs, or the BQ series discs:

http://www.maxellcanada.com/computer_pr ... ries&cat3=
and
http://www.maxellcanada.com/computer_pr ... R+BQ&cat3=

Both are available from [rfdlink=/forums/autolink/redirectpage.php?linkid=28]NCIX[/rfdlink]. Blankmedia.ca has also been offered the products, but I don't think they've picked up the line yet.

Futureshop and Staples do NOT have access to these products. Only a Maxell P/I dealer can sell them (you can check www.maxellcanada.com for a list of official dealers), and [rfdlink=/forums/autolink/redirectpage.php?linkid=28]NCIX[/rfdlink] and Blankmedia.ca only can get them through an arrangement I personally put together to open the product line up to the public ;)
Current DVD Burner Suggestion? Stick with Pioneer
Current suggested recordable media?
CD-Rs = Maxell CD-R Pro, Verbatim Datalife+, Falcon Media Pro
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[OP]
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rahzel wrote:when did this start happening DD? i bought some Taiyo Yuden DVDR's from [rfdlink=/forums/autolink/redirectpage.php?linkid=28]NCIX[/rfdlink] 2 months ago.
I don't have a date, but several months I'm sure. The stock may be as much as a year old even and I wouldn't be surprised.

Don't panic though, there are still several questions left unanswered, and I'm doing my best to find out more.
Current DVD Burner Suggestion? Stick with Pioneer
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CD-Rs = Maxell CD-R Pro, Verbatim Datalife+, Falcon Media Pro
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The Digital Dolphin wrote:I don't have a date, but several months I'm sure. The stock may be as much as a year old even and I wouldn't be surprised.

Don't panic though, there are still several questions left unanswered, and I'm doing my best to find out more.
i heard of this happeneing to people, but i didnt think it was with a lot of batches. :(
Jr. Member
Mar 1, 2005
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GTA
The Digital Dolphin wrote:
You can *TEST* the media though, [...] If you can pull the two layers apart from this point, using your fingernails, then the disc was bad. Unfortunately... if you try to hard even with a good disc, it's going to effectively destroy it also. So it's not a very useful test for learning which discs can be used or not... but I'm sure SOME people will try it out for themselves.

Thanks for the info Dolphin. Having just bought some TY's, I was a bit concerned and tried the "pull-apart" test. Curiosity got the best of me and I then tried it on every type of DVD disk I have. Results:

TY DVD+R 8x Media Code YUDEN000 T02 - pulled apart with minimal effort
TY DVD-R 8x Media Code TYGO2 - couldn't pull apart
CMC DVD-R 2x cheapies bought a few years ago - couldn't pull apart
Memorex DVD-R 4x - pulled apart but with maximum effort
Maxell DVD-R 8x - pulled apart but with maximum effort
BenQ DVD-R 8x - popped apart fully with almost no effort (Yikes!)

Not very scientific, but interesting results none-the-less. I'm going to be using my BenQs and TY DVD+R's for non-critical applications. I think this whole issue underscores the importance of using two different brands of media for every important backup/archive.

Thanks for keeping an eye on this issue as it evolves.

J.
[OP]
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jamied wrote:Thanks for the info Dolphin. Having just bought some TY's, I was a bit concerned and tried the "pull-apart" test. Curiosity got the best of me and I then tried it on every type of DVD disk I have. Results:

TY DVD+R 8x Media Code YUDEN000 T02 - pulled apart with minimal effort
TY DVD-R 8x Media Code TYGO2 - couldn't pull apart
CMC DVD-R 2x cheapies bought a few years ago - couldn't pull apart
Memorex DVD-R 4x - pulled apart but with maximum effort
Maxell DVD-R 8x - pulled apart but with maximum effort
BenQ DVD-R 8x - popped apart fully with almost no effort (Yikes!)

Not very scientific, but interesting results none-the-less. I'm going to be using my BenQs and TY DVD+R's for non-critical applications. I think this whole issue underscores the importance of using two different brands of media for every important backup/archive.

Thanks for keeping an eye on this issue as it evolves.

J.
That's odd.... Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD+Rs have been generally showing a little better bonding then the 8x DVD-Rs... but it vary's from batch to batch.

I think within a given spindle you can expect similar results, but other then that it's more difficult to say. I'm not surprised that CMC held up well... like Ritek, their issues are not bonding so much as consistant quality from burn to burn.

I appreciate the home testing quite a bit by the way! It backs up my info more, and people who are hesitant to believe this could be a situation with Taiyo Yuden will be more likely to believe it, or try it themselves.

Heh, it's actually kinda fun pulling DVDRs apart though :lol:
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[rfdlink=/forums/autolink/redirectpage.php?linkid=28]NCIX[/rfdlink] still has stock, and they have 5.99 shipping on this weeks sale (starts tonight).
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rahzel wrote:NCIX still has stock, and they have 5.99 shipping on this weeks sale (starts tonight).
Too bad the drive isn't on their sale.
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57 bucks isnt a terrible price. they seem to be the only ones who still have some 1640's in stock.
[OP]
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Update on the bonding issue:

I just pulled apart a BUNCH of DVDRs from my collection (no big loss!)

Taiyo Yuden Value Line DVD-Rs: Bad Bonding
Maxell Consumer 8x DVD-Rs (MIJ) Very bad bonding!!
BenQ 16x DVD-R: Very bad bonding!!
Fuji 8x DVD-R and DVD+R (MIT Prodisc): Very Good Bonding!!
Acro Circle 8x DVD-R: Very good bonding!!
Sony 8x DVD-R: Good bonding
Sony 8x DVD+R: Good Bonding
Memorex 16x DVD-Rs: Bad Bonding (surprised!!)
Verbatim 8x DVD-R (MIT CMC): Very good Bonding!!
Optodisc B Grade 2x DVD-Rs: Very good bonding!!

Now keep in mind I only ripped apart 1 disc each, and no other batches were cross compared.... but from what I've already heard, compared with the reports here, I've got the following guide:

Optodisc manufactured A Grade DVDRs: Good bonding to Very Good Bonding
Prodisc manufactured A Grade DVDRs: Not Good Bonding to Very Good Bonding
BenQ brand DVDRs: Very Bad Bonding
Sony brand (MIT Daxon): Good Bonding
Maxell DVDRs (MIJ Maxell): Very Bad Bonding to Good Bonding
Maxell PLUS/BQ Series DVDRs (MIJ Maxell): Good Bonding to Very Good Bonding
Taiyo Yuden DVDRs: Very Bad Bonding to Good Bonding
Memorex DVDRs: Very Bad Bonding to Very Good Bonding
RiData DVDRs: Very Good Bonding
Verbatim: Ok Bonding to Very Good Bonding
TDK A Grade: Good Bonding to Very Good Bonding
MAM-A Silver 8x DVD-Rs: Very Bad Bonding

For reference, I'm using the following scale:

Very Good
Good
OK
Bad
Very Bad

Currently, I recommend using Maxell Plus Series DVDRs (or BQ Series), Acro Circle (if you burner is compatible with it), Verbatim DVDRs made by CMC, Sony DVDRs made by Daxon (or Sony Japan!).

I can't recommend TDK since there are massive quality issues appearing in the stock available in Canada. I can't recommend Prodisc, since they don't perform well on longevity tests normally, bonding is not the only thing that can affect this though. I can't recommend RiData since it's too unpredictable between spindles (or even between discs in a given spindle!).

Please remember, that we still don't know how quickly discs with very bad bonding will start to fail... it may not affect even a majority of users. On the other hand... it might. I'm still working on it! (although not much I can do but wait for reports for this one).
Current DVD Burner Suggestion? Stick with Pioneer
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ShadowVlican wrote:man it's so hard to find a benq dw1640 :evil:
Man, no one reads my posts!

a-power.com has the 1640 for:

50 bucks beige
52 bucks black

Price match it with [rfdlink=/forums/autolink/redirectpage.php?linkid=28]ncix[/rfdlink] if it's more convenient.
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Nov 13, 2003
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Given the opportunity to buy either 8x or 16x Verbatim DVD-R discs (both are MIT) for the same price ($19.55/50 pack spindle from Staples) which of the two would you choose based on quality? I don't normally burn faster than 8x so any speed difference isn't important to me. I have my suspicions from the letter styling used on the spindle that my local store's stock is made by Prodisc (rather than CMC) for Verbatim.

If it helps I burn on a variety of drives:

Pioneer 108
NEC 3500
Benq 1620 and 1640

Thanks.
[OP]
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bodobodo wrote:Given the opportunity to buy either 8x or 16x Verbatim DVD-R discs (both are MIT) for the same price ($19.55/50 pack spindle from Staples) which of the two would you choose based on quality? I don't normally burn faster than 8x so any speed difference isn't important to me. I have my suspicions from the letter styling used on the spindle that my local store's stock is made by Prodisc (rather than CMC) for Verbatim.

If it helps I burn on a variety of drives:

Pioneer 108
NEC 3500
Benq 1620 and 1640

Thanks.
I would go with the 16x. If there are any problems (which I don't expect), you can always burn it at 8x, and likely everything would be solved. That sure as heck beats burning 8x DVDRs at 4x! ;)
Current DVD Burner Suggestion? Stick with Pioneer
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DD, are the "Sony DVDRs made by Daxon" that you are recommending above the same ones that are available at Wallymart?
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miss_swan wrote:Man, no one reads my posts!

a-power.com has the 1640 for:

50 bucks beige
52 bucks black

Price match it with [rfdlink=/forums/autolink/redirectpage.php?linkid=28]ncix[/rfdlink] if it's more convenient.
how about...... no one has it in stock locally in toronto :evil: ;)

i don't like buying stuff online, local shops here are much cheaper
ShadowVlican
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ShadowVlican wrote:how about...... no one has it in stock locally in toronto :evil: ;)

i don't like buying stuff online, local shops here are much cheaper
pricematch [rfdlink=/forums/autolink/redirectpage.php?linkid=28]NCIX[/rfdlink] with a-power and get it for 50/62 bucks shipped is too much for you? :confused:
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rahzel wrote:pricematch [rfdlink=/forums/autolink/redirectpage.php?linkid=28]NCIX[/rfdlink] with a-power and get it for 50/62 bucks shipped is too much for you? :confused:
still doesn't cover that i don't like buying stuff online

doh well, it's my loss :lol:
ShadowVlican
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ShadowVlican wrote:how about...... no one has it in stock locally in toronto :evil: ;)

i don't like buying stuff online, local shops here are much cheaper
Fair enough. I didn't pay attention that you were in the GTA.

Are you absolutely sure no one in the GTA has the 1640?
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