Don't Make sense

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Dec 13th, 2020 8:57 pm

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Dec 7th, 2020 8:07 pm

ufcdeals [OP]: Jr. Member; Aug 7, 2012; 147 posts; 193 upvotes; Vancouver

Dec 7th, 2020 8:07 pm

Don't Make sense

Can i have some of yall input on this?
Credit Score on Transunion 766 is Considered Fair, Credit score on Equifax is 765 considered Excellent. Why that score is considered fair?
I have $36900 between 3 accounts
2 credit cards and 1 line of credit
Utilization is at 2% and i got declined for manual review on American express SCP card
Took a month they would always tell me to call after 24-48 hours and i did that like 7-10 times and finally they told me today after a month of review i got declined and they wouldn't even give me a reason why
I wanted to get that card for 2% on everything to compliment my BNS VISA INFINITE
Anyone that got declined does CC companies don't tell you reason why?

16 replies

Dec 7th, 2020 8:34 pm

OxbridgeIvy: Member; Nov 3, 2018; 446 posts; 711 upvotes

Dec 7th, 2020 8:34 pm

I find that on average my Transunion score (and it sounds like most people's as well) is about 100 points higher than Equifax. So my Transunion, when it is in the mid-800s, Equifax is in the mid-700s and these are considered Excellent scores. On the occasion that Transunion dips to the high 700s, Equifax dips to the high 600s and these are considered Good scores. Anyway, the point is that your Transunion score is the equivalent of an Equifax score about 100 points lower. So for you to have both in the mid-700s means your score levels are actually quite different between the 2, and would explain why Equifax considers your score Excellent, and Transunion considers your score Fair. It would seem that one of the 2 either has wrong information on you that the other doesn't have, or is missing correct information that the other has. No idea which one.

+1

Dec 7th, 2020 8:46 pm

Wydrazor: Member; Oct 12, 2020; 453 posts; 678 upvotes; Ontario

Dec 7th, 2020 8:46 pm

ufcdeals wrote: ↑ Credit Score on Transunion 766 is Considered Fair, Credit score on Equifax is 765 considered Excellent. Why that score is considered fair?

What @OxbridgeIvy said makes sense, and I agree. TU score should be higher than EQ score. The two credit bureaus have a different rating system, so it could be that the range of what they would consider "fair" is different. They're literally two different agencies so they would have their own scoring systems, and it is possible one may be missing an information.

ufcdeals wrote: ↑ I have $36900 between 3 accounts
2 credit cards and 1 line of credit
Utilization is at 2% and i got declined for manual review on American express SCP card
Took a month they would always tell me to call after 24-48 hours and i did that like 7-10 times and finally they told me today after a month of review i got declined and they wouldn't even give me a reason why
I wanted to get that card for 2% on everything to compliment my BNS VISA INFINITE
Anyone that got declined does CC companies don't tell you reason why?

There could be multitude of reasons that's not limited just to utilization and score. As an example, if your DTI (Debt:Income) Ratio goes over what the FIs are looking for, then they won't approve. Someone with $80K income, despite having great scores and low utilization could get declined if they already have too much available credit. I'm sure many others can come up with different reasons too, but I'd say your credit seeking behaviour, your average account age, number of HP recently, COVID-19-related restrictions, etc.

AMEX should be sending you a refusal letter with generic wording, but honestly, even if they don't, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out why you might've been declined. As for AMEX taking a month may have different issues factored in that I'm not going to comment on, so it's something you should be reviewing with AMEX directly if you're really curious.

List of BEST Credit Cards for the Frequent Flyer/Rewards/Loyalty Programs you want to pursue - includes Personal and Business cards + WYDRAZOR'S TOP PICKS

Dec 7th, 2020 8:50 pm

jtfrogger: Sr. Member; May 26, 2009; 578 posts; 775 upvotes; Calgary

Dec 7th, 2020 8:50 pm

At the end of the day, the credit scores are largely meaningless. Each bank has their own reasons why they would accept or decline someone. You need to get the reason from them. If the first rep you spoke with gave you no information, call back again. Keep pushing until you get an answer as to why. Ask for reconsideration.

It might be your income. It might be your job history. It might be the age of your accounts. Who knows? Amex, not us.

+4

Dec 7th, 2020 9:10 pm

ufcdeals [OP]: Jr. Member; Aug 7, 2012; 147 posts; 193 upvotes; Vancouver

Dec 7th, 2020 9:10 pm

i talk to like so many agents and manager they wouldn't give me reason why and said to call Equifax i called Equifax they said everything on my account looks good that i should've been approved but its up to Amex they told me cause they the card issuer.

Now i don't know if i should apply for different cards or not

jtfrogger wrote: ↑ At the end of the day, the credit scores are largely meaningless. Each bank has their own reasons why they would accept or decline someone. You need to get the reason from them. If the first rep you spoke with gave you no information, call back again. Keep pushing until you get an answer as to why. Ask for reconsideration.

It might be your income. It might be your job history. It might be the age of your accounts. Who knows? Amex, not us.

Dec 7th, 2020 9:20 pm

smartie: Deal Guru; Dec 5, 2006; 11836 posts; 6894 upvotes; Markham

Dec 7th, 2020 9:20 pm

OP, if amex declined your application after MANUAL. Review, it might not be score itself. If it's just because low score, it should be automatically declined

Dec 7th, 2020 10:26 pm

Altera: Deal Addict; Jan 16, 2016; 1476 posts; 1134 upvotes; Hamilton, ON

Dec 7th, 2020 10:26 pm

“Doesn’t” make sense, maybe to you, but to the rest of us it’s a pretty clear explanation!

+1

Dec 7th, 2020 11:25 pm

CLOSER: Sr. Member; Oct 31, 2003; 863 posts; 140 upvotes; Woodbridge

Dec 7th, 2020 11:25 pm

I can give you a few reasons why:

Are you employed Mr. Lebowski?
Do you have a job sir?
You don't look for work dressed like that on a weekday!

Credit history too new

Are you a resident of Canada?

Are you of legal age?

Perhaps try Canadian Tire MC or a secured credit card.

Is that uloc co-signed?

+1

Dec 9th, 2020 8:36 pm

ufcdeals [OP]: Jr. Member; Aug 7, 2012; 147 posts; 193 upvotes; Vancouver

Dec 9th, 2020 8:36 pm

CLOSER wrote: ↑ I can give you a few reasons why:

Are you employed Mr. Lebowski? Yes sir with Rogers
Do you have a job sir? Yes
You don't look for work dressed like that on a weekday!

Credit history too new - According to Equifax 2 years length of credit history and 1 year 2 months Average account age whatever that means

Are you a resident of Canada? yes

Are you of legal age? yes

Perhaps try Canadian Tire MC or a secured credit card.

Is that uloc co-signed? Joint with Ex wife

Dec 10th, 2020 5:52 pm

FoFai2015: Deal Addict; Jan 2, 2015; 1633 posts; 638 upvotes; Toronto, ON

Dec 10th, 2020 5:52 pm

ufcdeals wrote: ↑ Credit history too new - According to Equifax 2 years length of credit history and 1 year 2 months Average account age whatever that means

That's okay for a beginner card, but it's pretty new.

Is that uloc co-signed? Joint with Ex wife

I wonder if that had something to do with it. It's joint with the ex-wife. Do they know you're single?

Wydrazor wrote: ↑ Someone with $80K income, despite having great scores and low utilization could get declined if they already have too much available credit.

Does that actually happen? I've only ever heard anecdotes about this.

Dec 10th, 2020 9:11 pm

Wydrazor: Member; Oct 12, 2020; 453 posts; 678 upvotes; Ontario

Dec 10th, 2020 9:11 pm

FoFai2015 wrote: ↑
Does that actually happen? I've only ever heard anecdotes about this.

It's not just anecdotes. Many actual DPs of people getting denied a CC in Canada for having too much available credit (whether it's shown in letters or are told by the underwriters directly), and this also has shown DPs in other countries, such as the U.S.

Think about it - if the person earns $80K income, but say they already have a $40K car loan and another $40K of available credit ($20K, $10K, $10K). Do you think the bank's are going to feel comfortable lending this person another credit line (as in a CC) even at just $5K CL? The amount of income has to be able to support the maximum debt someone can carry in a theoretical situation where they max out their credit cards. I don't know what the actual DTI (Debt:Income Ratio) threshold is for banks, but they have system algorithms that determine whether someone has too much credit or not. Look it up on Google.

List of BEST Credit Cards for the Frequent Flyer/Rewards/Loyalty Programs you want to pursue - includes Personal and Business cards + WYDRAZOR'S TOP PICKS

Dec 11th, 2020 10:42 am

FoFai2015: Deal Addict; Jan 2, 2015; 1633 posts; 638 upvotes; Toronto, ON

Dec 11th, 2020 10:42 am

Wydrazor wrote: ↑ Think about it - if the person earns $80K income, but say they already have a $40K car loan and another $40K of available credit ($20K, $10K, $10K).

That wasn't the sort of thing I'm talking about.

If someone has $80,000 of income, and is only using $4,000 of credit out of $100,000 available, are you telling me they could be turned down for that? The example you gave showed someone with a high utilization, not high available credit.

Dec 11th, 2020 11:52 am

Wydrazor: Member; Oct 12, 2020; 453 posts; 678 upvotes; Ontario

Dec 11th, 2020 11:52 am

FoFai2015 wrote: ↑ That wasn't the sort of thing I'm talking about.

If someone has $80,000 of income, and is only using $4,000 of credit out of $100,000 available, are you telling me they could be turned down for that? The example you gave showed someone with a high utilization, not high available credit.

It's possible. And no, it wasn't high utilization because in my example, I the $40K is available credit and $40K is in car loans. Doesn't matter. Literally, just Google "denied for having too much available credit".

List of BEST Credit Cards for the Frequent Flyer/Rewards/Loyalty Programs you want to pursue - includes Personal and Business cards + WYDRAZOR'S TOP PICKS

Dec 11th, 2020 3:11 pm

taxrage: Deal Addict; Jan 15, 2017; 1682 posts; 1216 upvotes

Dec 11th, 2020 3:11 pm

FoFai2015 wrote: ↑ That wasn't the sort of thing I'm talking about.

If someone has $80,000 of income, and is only using $4,000 of credit out of $100,000 available, are you telling me they could be turned down for that? The example you gave showed someone with a high utilization, not high available credit.

When we refinanced our mortgage we had lots of room on about $46K of LOC accounts. They asked us to sign direction letters to those banks to close all but one of the accounts, which they then mailed to each institution. While some banks actually close the account, others seem to just mark them as frozen. They still show up on our online banking.

Dec 11th, 2020 3:50 pm

mikeymike1: Deal Fanatic; Apr 16, 2007; 8125 posts; 3459 upvotes; Financial District B…

Dec 11th, 2020 3:50 pm

ufcdeals wrote: ↑
I have $36900 between 3 accounts

2 credit cards and 1 line of credit

Utilization is at 2% and i got declined for manual review

I'm going to let you in on a secret.
Credit scoring utilization metrics is meaningless to FI/lenders/CC issuers.
While yes everyone seems to be constantly preoccupied with utilization ratios those ratios and metrics only matter for credit scoring - not lending qualifying.
Lenders don't say, oh this applicant has 29% utilization and we should approve him or oh no this applicant has 31% utilization so we should decline.
Too many card issuers increasing limits to crazy amounts.

Lenders are more concerned with all your overall balances to your income.
Furthermore, with this current financial climate your disclosed employment and income plays a significant role more-so now than this same time last year.

Last edited by mikeymike1 on Dec 11th, 2020 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

----------------------------Licensed Credit Bureau member, S1, FI Automotive, CCP forums most banned = x 13 and counting, guess who that is?... stomped to the curb once again

+2

Dec 11th, 2020 4:49 pm

bomber17: Deal Fanatic; Apr 5, 2016; 5796 posts; 4200 upvotes; Calgary/Vancouver

Dec 11th, 2020 4:49 pm

Do you have mortgages? And if yes, do they have big monthly payments? You can have the most perfect score in the world but can be declined if your income does not even support the mortgage payments. And sure you may have joint owners and co-signers, but they don’t matter.

Dec 13th, 2020 8:57 pm

tmkf_patryk: Deal Addict; Dec 27, 2007; 4153 posts; 1498 upvotes; Edmonton

Dec 13th, 2020 8:57 pm

ufcdeals wrote: ↑ Can i have some of yall input on this?
Credit Score on Transunion 766 is Considered Fair, Credit score on Equifax is 765 considered Excellent. Why that score is considered fair?
I have $36900 between 3 accounts
2 credit cards and 1 line of credit
Utilization is at 2% and i got declined for manual review on American express SCP card
Took a month they would always tell me to call after 24-48 hours and i did that like 7-10 times and finally they told me today after a month of review i got declined and they wouldn't even give me a reason why
I wanted to get that card for 2% on everything to compliment my BNS VISA INFINITE
Anyone that got declined does CC companies don't tell you reason why?

Wht not just pay off your debt first?

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You only live once, get a v8

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