Real Estate

Earn back buyer's real estate agent commission - Become an Agent. New Humber College Course is now live!

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  • Oct 12th, 2020 3:34 pm
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Deal Addict
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Oct 26, 2007
1982 posts
933 upvotes
YYZ
oasis100 wrote: There are plenty of agents that will list for 1%.
FSBO has no benefit for some one that is inexperienced like yourself.
at the end of the day i firmly believe you get what you pay for.
at 1% im not offering many of my services such as staging / website / drone video (unless the seller wants to pay for these services separately)
negotiation is an art from, and im slowly learning my way around objections to commission.
i know my worth, and i'd rather do quality listings over volume to turn and burn.

cheers Smiling Face With Open Mouth
Licensed Full Service Realtor
Member
Nov 4, 2013
207 posts
158 upvotes
North York, ON
Has anyone found a workaround for needing to click through all the slides?

I find the PDFs have much more information and I'm literally spending hours just clicking through the slides as fast as I can.
Deal Fanatic
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Dec 11, 2005
7995 posts
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TO
contactgreg wrote: Has anyone found a workaround for needing to click through all the slides?

I find the PDFs have much more information and I'm literally spending hours just clicking through the slides as fast as I can.
Are you studying via Orea (past application) or newer Humber? For the latter, there doesn't seem to be a way. At least for course 2, solid 4-5 hours to clicking required to book exam.
Achieva Financial /KOHO / STACK (0% FX Fee) /Tangerine / EQ Bank member / I use Plastiq for paying bills with my CC

"You can't soar with the eagles if you're hanging with the turkeys - Gary Kent
Member
Nov 4, 2013
207 posts
158 upvotes
North York, ON
TorontoEh wrote: For the latter, there doesn't seem to be a way. At least for course 2, solid 4-5 hours to clicking required to book exam.
Yep that's me right now. Thanks for the confirmation.
Newbie
Apr 22, 2014
66 posts
2 upvotes
Woodbridge
i have not signed up for the humber courses yet however my relative has books from the OREA courses.

Did Humber go in a completely different structure and order of studies when compared to OREA curriculum?>

Naturally i assume it would NOT hurt to study his OREA books anyway, but im still curious.
Newbie
Sep 22, 2020
2 posts
Hi all. I'm a newbie, please be nice! I just want to get a better understanding of what happens when an unrepresented buyer puts in an offer that's accepted. This seems like the right thread for this question. A hypothetical:

- Listing agreement says seller's brokerage gets 5%, cooperating brokerage gets 2.5% from this percentage.
- House sells for $1,000,000.
- $50,000 will go from the sale price to the seller's agent. Of this, $25,000 would go to the buyer's agent if they have representation (which is why I can see the appeal of becoming a real estate agent for buying / selling your own home).
- But if the buyer just submitted their own offer without representation, they wouldn't get that $25,000 because they're not an agent. So what would happen to it? Would the seller's agent keep the whole $50,000 as there is no cooperating brokerage or would that $25,000 remain in the seller's pocket so they end up with $975,000?

Would appreciate your help understanding this sort of situation... thanks!
Jr. Member
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Jun 3, 2019
143 posts
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GTA
IHeartPuppies wrote: Hi all. I'm a newbie, please be nice! I just want to get a better understanding of what happens when an unrepresented buyer puts in an offer that's accepted. This seems like the right thread for this question. A hypothetical:

- Listing agreement says seller's brokerage gets 5%, cooperating brokerage gets 2.5% from this percentage.
- House sells for $1,000,000.
- $50,000 will go from the sale price to the seller's agent. Of this, $25,000 would go to the buyer's agent if they have representation (which is why I can see the appeal of becoming a real estate agent for buying / selling your own home).
- But if the buyer just submitted their own offer without representation, they wouldn't get that $25,000 because they're not an agent. So what would happen to it? Would the seller's agent keep the whole $50,000 as there is no cooperating brokerage or would that $25,000 remain in the seller's pocket so they end up with $975,000?

Would appreciate your help understanding this sort of situation... thanks!
Sorry if this answer is brief, that scenario would be discussed between the seller and their representative.
Realtor® & Mortgage Agent
Member
Nov 4, 2013
207 posts
158 upvotes
North York, ON
torspiker wrote: Maybe this 'clicking' could be automated using some tools. Check out Selenium: https://www.selenium.dev/
This is too advanced for me, the most i'm willing to do is set up AHK to click all the typical button positions Face With Tears Of Joy
Banned
May 3, 2020
77 posts
68 upvotes
eonibm wrote:
Note that course registration is now open for the new Humber College Real Estate Education Course.

This post covers both courses. Comparison to the previous OREA course:

Similarities:

- same entry requirements, ie 18+, but can start earlier if you provide a letter from Mummy and/or Daddy, police check, high school diploma or equivalency test (foreign credentials not accepted). Apply first, then when accepted you pick your course locations for in-person and exam locations;
- Can be taken at your own pace, ie it will not follow any 'semester' requirement like Humber's typical courses;
- You have 2 years to complete the program;
- Can be done via e-learning (except for simulation sessions);
- They estimate the course will take on average about 6 mos and 300 hours to complete. I think this is on par with the previous OREA course for most people.
- You don't have to pay for the full course up-front, but as you go. That makes it more economical to see if it's for you. There is no OSAP funding available.
- You can still do the OREA broker program, but when it's not available anymore you can do the Humber program (if you are already a registrant of course);
- Exam taking options are still available for weekend, day and evening exam-taking options;
- Exams are still in-person.

Changes:

- There will be 5 courses now (click here for description) and all must be completed before you can register as a real estate salesperson. With OREA it was first 3 courses and then you could register and complete the last 3. However, in the the last couple of years they changed it to 5 courses and 1 after registration.
- No Real Property Course. The law will be woven into the other courses;
- Now requires 2 mandatory 'in-person simulation sessions', held at 30 Carrier Dr, Toronto and other locations province-wide). This will allow students to practice real-world situations where they navigate a transaction and receive instant coaching and mentorship. These sessions can be taken Mon-Fri or on 2 consecutive weekends;
- More focus on the real estate transaction than before;
- You will be assessed on your performance in the 2 in-person simulations. It hasn't been disclosed how this will figure in to you passing or not;
- Likely will cost a bit more but pricing has not been announced yet.

This course has a higher bar than the previous one. However I am getting the idea that it still retains some of the easy-peasyness of the previous one. I welcome the changes as it was necessary from what I see out there in how some agents transact deals.

This course does not impact any existing real estate agents. They are still required to complete the mandatory continuing education program every 2 years.

They are also introducing the 'KMS' (Knowledge Management System) which is not a part of the course but is an online knowledge learning and resource tool available to both registrants and those taking the course.

See Humber Real Estate Education for more info. There is an FAQ there and you can also email reprogram@reco.on.ca for any questions not answered there, except for cost which is not available yet.[/COLOR]


This thread focuses on the previous course to becoming a real estate agent, which took me only 4 mos. It is about but how to earn the 2.5% commission the seller pays buyer's agent when you buy a home, rather than being able to sell your own home which you can already do with a flat rate MLS listing (see my guide Here to learn how to do that), Before I even start, kindly dispense with the "This is not worth it!", "Why would someone do this?", etc comments. Just move on as it adds nothing to the discussion. It may not be worth it for you but your value matrix should not be imposed on others. It certainly is worth it for me and many others to put in the effort to save this kind of money. If anything, even if you are not interested in actually doing this, just understanding how the licensing process even works by reading this first post may be worthwhile.

This post is long because I gathered all the info from various sources, including phone calls to the various organizations, and also am dispelling alot of misinformation out there. Btw, If you think this post is too long and cannot take the 10 minutes to read it I would strongly suggest you not consider taking a course that is 215 hours + study time + travel time + 6 x 3-hr exams to be initially registered, not to mention another 30 hrs of study and 1 exam after that. The post is long because that is the only way to provide all of the detail I have gathered from various sources and provide it all in one place. This is for Ontario only. Just to clarify I am talking about MLS listings, which comprise 90% of all homes listed, not private sales or alternative methods that do not involve MLS. There is a buyer's agent commission specified in every one of those MLS listings, which is typically 2.5% (sometimes 2% but rarely).


All MLS listings have a buyer's agent commission so that agents want to show your home to their clients. Less than 2.0-2.5% and you'll find your home is shunned. Unethical but it happens. I have my license mainly to earn the commission on the properties I buy for myself, not the public. That and for deals I do only for friends 'n family. I have had a lot of PM's from RFD members wanting me to represent them because of my wealth of knowledge and obvious skill and transacting real estate deals but I am not really interested in outside business at the moment.

In Ontario, the Ontario Real Estate Association ('OREA') used to provide the course that you needed to complete to become registered/licenced as real estate agent. As mentioned above, unless already enrolled, it is no longer available and you have to wait until July 2019 to apply to the new Humber College course which starts in Sep 2019. The degree of difficulty you will find depends on your background. Don't go by what how little someone else claimed they had to study to pass. Everyone is different. There are parts where one has to do a bit of memorization of the various terms. The Real Estate Council of Ontario ('RECO') provides the registration to become a real estate agent. TREB (or whatever real estate board is local to you), OREA and the Canadian Real Estate Association ('CREA') provide services to real estate agents and brokerage firms, such as MLS. More about that discussed below and it is not necessary to join them or pay their fees to maintain your registration.

NOTE: Buying or selling your principal residence as a real estate agent does not increase the chances of you losing your principal residence exemption on that home. Flipping multiple homes in succession is the critical factor in that, along with some other factors that don't relate to you being an agent, and if you do so you risk the chance of losing the exemption no matter who your agent is. It takes a lot more than simply being a real estate agent buy or selling your own principal residence for you to be flagged as a house flipper by the CRA. If you don't believe me, consult the CRA and/or a tax lawyer.

STEPS:

Note: A breakdown of all of the costs, which might change when Humber College starts offering the course, is shown in my post #342 in an easy-to-read handy-dandy spreadsheet format that I prepared.

To apply you must have a high school diploma, equivalent or pass a simple equivalency test. There is no minimum age to be able to apply but if you are under 18 you must get Mummy or Daddy to give written approval for you to take the course. That will requires a phone call to Humber to set up. (If you want to become a real estate agent right at 18 you should start the course no earlier than 2-1/2 years before you turn 18 as that is the maximum time you have to complete the first part of it, and no later than probably 4-6 months before you turn 18, as that's the fastest it seems anyone has done the part of the course that allows you to register.

Click here to see the courses you'll have to complete once your application has been approved: https://humber.ca/realestate/becoming-a ... erson.html

The following fees and 6 course descriptions apply to OREA, not Humber, as Humber will have only 5 courses. However they may give you an idea of what Humber's course will entail:

(1) The Pre-Registration Segment is the 18-month period by which you must complete 6 courses, 1 of which is 35 hours, 1 is 60 hours and 4 are 40 hrs each of classroom study but 3 can be done via correspondence or e-learning online (on your Internet browser) and 3 are done in a classroom setting. However, there is no requirement to actually show up for the class. You can still just study from the textbook. However I would suggest you show up at least for the first session until the break as some instructors take all attendees' email addresses and will send the course notes. As such, there is no need for anyone to take any time off work to complete the course. Just take the evening sessions for the classroom course so that you can give your email address to the instructor so they can email you the class notes and leave at the first break. There is an exam after each of the 1st and 2nd, then one for the 3rd & 4th together, then one after the 5th and 6th.

Fees: $2,850 for 6 Courses (35 hrs/$525, 60 hrs/$545, 3 x 40 hrs/$425, 40 hrs/$505)

* TIPS: Pay for the courses as you go as there is no discount for paying for all up front. Buy the 'Passit' study guide ($25-$28) on OREA's website as you enrol in each course. Well worth it as they provide numerous multiple choice drills, memorization drills and help you to focus on weak areas. Practice exams q's are also provided. The OREA 'Exam Tutor' CD ($25) has practice exams for all of courses and even the brokers course and is also well worth it. For those who work daytimes and don't want to do online e-learning or correspondence there are evening classroom options. For all class options see https://www.orea.com/OREA-Real-Estat...CourseCalendar. Daytimes classes are typically 8:30am - 4:30pm, evenings are 6:30pm-9:25pm but take more days to do. Only 2 particular courses have to be taken in a classroom format. You book your exam date for that course when you enrol in it. You cannot enrol or book the exam date for the next course until you start it. Exam dates changes cost $50 fee once booked. High demand means exam dates can be way off in the future. If you want an earlier exam date then check out of town locations London, Kitchener, etc. They have less demand. Getting exam dates is the main reason the time to take the course stretches out. Course textbooks can be bought separately from OREA before you start the course for about $105 each. You can also buy texts used online but if you do then buy the physical books. Many are reselling the pdfs you get with the course anyway over and over. That's a scam. You may only want to do this if you have a long time before your exam date and want to 'pre-study' for the next one. No discount though when you start the next course for the texts you already bought. Exams are multiple choice (could they have made it any easier?) and you have the option of paper or on an iPad. iPad is no extra charge and the advantage is results are returned in 24 hours vs 7 days for paper, so you can enrol in the next course sooner (if you pass). All Pre-Registation courses are mandatory and there is 1 elective course in the articling period.

(2) The RECO Approval Segment is the 12 month period during which you have to find a brokerage to associate yourself with and the time limit that you have to apply for Initial Salesperson Registration at reco.com. You must be 18 by the time you apply. Note that you can find the brokerage firm during the first segment and apply to them the day OREA confirms you have completed it. Then you indicate your brokerage firm on the RECO form which you can view here if you want to see what it entails: http://www.reco.on.ca/wp-content/upload ... y-2014.pdf. Once registered, you can start selling real estate & make those fat commissions.

* TIP: A Canadian Criminal Record Check is required for the RECO application. You get it from your local police department in person or online, which costs $20 in Toronto but possibly more in other jurisdictions. Because of the high volume of requests this can take up to 8+ weeks. So, if you are trying to get registered as an agent as fast as possible then you should request your record check well in advance. Just remember that the record check cannot be dated more than 6 months in advance of your RECO application so don't apply too early. Here is the RECO link that provides info about how to go about it: http://www.reco.on.ca/real-estate-profe ... er/2957-2/

Fees: $1,170 (Criminal Record Check $20 + RECO $350 Registration Fee for 24 + RECO Errors & Omissions Insurance - 2 x $400 for 24 months

Total so far $4,020 - You can now do real estate deals and there is no requirement to have a mentor, be part of a team or do a single transaction. You can choose to join TREB/CREA/OREA at this point which will cost you another $860 (see below) so the total then would be $4,880.

(3) The Articling Segment which lasts 24 months, but is unlike any other articling I have heard of. During this time you do 1 more 40-hr course in the 24 months and then renew your license as an agent after 24 months and every 24 months thereafter. One of the courses is designated to be done in the classroom. However, there is no requirement to actually show up for the class. You can still just study from the textbook. However I would suggest you show up at least for the first session until the break as some instructors take your email address and will send you the course notes. Other than that I don't know why they call it articling as there are no other requirements.

* NOTE: There is a lot of confusion about the following: The Initial Salesperson Registration that you get after completing these 4 courses is exactly the same as when you 'Renew Salesperson Registration' after the 24-month articling period during which you need to complete the second set of 3 courses. When you renew all you are doing is renewing your licence. It is not a different licence or one that give you different capabilities. It is not more 'full' than the licence you received when you initially registered as a salesperson. You either have a licence or not. Period. *

Fees: $505 for 1 40 hr elective course

Total so far - $4,525 if you don't join TREB/OREA/CREA and $5,385 if you do

If you join TREB/CREA/OREA you do their free orientation and MLS course. These organizations are called 'organized real estate' and by joining them you are a part of organized real estate. Not sure why they call it organized, but perhaps it's because they provided services that are not strictly required to transact in real estate in Ontario and so they have organized something!

Fees: $860 - $460 Registration for TREB + $400 CREA/OREA Registration (you must pay both)

Then you pay TREB/CREA/OREA annual fees.

Fees: $2,195 for the 24-month articling period (2 x $860/yr TREB + $475/yr CREA/OREA)

Total so far - $6,720 and you have been able to transact real estate since 24 months earlier with full access to MLS

IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND: As you can see, doing the course is not an insignificant time commitment and neither is the cost. It is almost 300 hours of study, at least one week of classroom study (more if evenings), 6 exams you have to pass and 7 courses you have to take and over $7,000 to finish it entirely. If you just want to get the initial registration and start the articling period so you can do a transaction and then quit it is 215 hrs and at least $4,525 and more if you join TREB/OREA/CREA or not. OREA's statistics show that only a minority of people who start the course actually finish it, some because they lose interest, some because it's too much of a time commitment and others because they don't pass. The payback if you do finish can be high though if all you want to do is to buy your own homes. Also, although the course is not that hard, if you are going to attempt to handle transactions other than your own remember that although it is not difficult work, it just can be time consuming to represent other buyers and sellers in multiple transactions if you want to do a good job. It can also take a lot of interruption of both your workday if you work full time and your free time too. Other buyers and sellers that you represent will expect you to do just as good a job as someone doing it full-time and you should want to do that too. I am not trying to discourage anyone but just trying to be realistic in pointing out that it is very different doing your own buy deal and making being a real estate agent a sideline by representing others. This is clearly not for everyone and I just want to point that out. BTW, this does not in any way diminish my opinion that agents get paid way to much for what they do and that selling commission should not be tied to selling price but rather to the difference between listing and selling (if higher) price. This is currently disallowed by legislation and is the subject of another one of my threads.

Now you have completed all of the requirements and you need to renew your initial registration and pay more fees:

FEES: $1,932 per year - RECO Registration $175 ($350/2 yrs) + E & O Insurance $400/yr + RECO Continuing Education $22/yr ($44/2yrs, 24 hours, ie 1 hr/mos average!) + $860 TREB + $475 OREA/CREA

That's it. After this you can keep paying all the fees or omit the TREB/OREA/CREA fees if you want to be less active or inactive and that makes the fees only $597. You'll still have to do the Continuing Education courses though. You will then you have to register with a brokerage that is not a TREB member (or has one office that is not out of all their offices) and pay their fees which can be as low as $99. $700/yr is not a lot to keep your licence active.

See my post #265 in this thread, which details how to pay only the RECO fees, 'park' keep your license and also transact deals as an agent. It also outlines the differences between having TREB/OREA/CREA membership and not having it.

For the money I am simply going to join TREB/OREA/CREA as I want easy access to MLS all the time from home or office. It's only another $1,335/yr which is deductible from income.

* Note: You do not have to transact a single real estate deal ever to maintain your license, just pay the annual fees to RECO *

Other Costs:

Brokerage cut of your commissions: 0% to 50, sometimes constant, sometimes it's on a declining basis, decreasing as you generate more commissions, reset each year. Some agencies only charge 10% on your commission and a flat rate of about $200 on every commission thereafter, some only charge a flat rate on each. It's all over the map.

Brokerage desk fee: Many also charge a 'desk fee'/mos for their services, anywhere from $35-$1,500+/month. They might charge a combination of both. I have found some that charge as low as $99/year to be registered with them and then $35/month but only on those months you have a listing. You also pay this fee in months you are representing a buyer because the brokerage has to get involved as all requests for lockbox key codes as the authorization always goes through the respective seller and buyer brokerage firms first. In case you don't know, the lockbox is a box that hangs on the door handle with the house key inside. It can only be accessed if you know the code. That allows buyer's agents to open the door and show the house without having to get the spare key from the seller's brokerage office or having the seller's agent having to attend, as was the case before the real estate industry started using lockboxes. (Another reason why being an agent is less work today).

Other: Business cards, some minor office supplies, a computer, smartphone, some decent clothes and a half-decent car and to pay for gas. Most of that you’d have anyway, not to mention they are all write-offs against your income. There's no fee to list on MLS as a TREB member. As a non-TREB member you list on MLS by using a 'referral agreement' to a brokerage firm that is a member.

Remember, this is on the buy side. On the sell side, if you also do that, your 'marketing' fees for an MLS listing will be the cost of brochures, pics, adverts, custom house website, etc. but that’s a pittance compared to the commission, not to mention they are all deductible expenses against commission income. The price of single family home in Toronto is now $1.15M. Buying (or selling) one house would put at least 90%+ of the $28,750 commission in your pocket with the rest to the brokerage firm. That leaves you with about $20,000 pre-tax on the first buy after the deduction of course and registration fees and more if the higher the transaction value.

Note re cashback on commission: Some buyer's agents now provide a cashback rebate on the 2.5% commission they earn in order to compete and it is not as if they are going to give you more than half of it, if even that. That cashback may be taxable but I would contact the CRA to determine if cash back on the purchase of a principal residence is taxable as their answer is definitive. Your agent might send you a T4 for the cash back but that's not what matters. It's what the CRA says about it.

Note to those thinking they can take the course, not earn commission as an agent and keep claiming a loss due to expenses year-after-year (legit ones related to being an agent of course) against their personal income. You might get away with this for a year or two but then the CRA will start denying your expenses and might even re-assess your previous returns which will result in you paying back tax along with interest. Worst case scenario is you also get audited. This is all no different than starting some other sole proprietorship or partnership and then just continually showing losses due to expenses but never any income. There is no free ride.
This is the most amazing post I’ve seen on a forum
Member
Jun 9, 2008
358 posts
26 upvotes
Toronto
I just signed up for Exam 1 and this Proctortrack thing is a nightmare.

I have not received the credentials to login and do the onboarding exams. They say it will take about 3-4 business days but its been 2 weeks now.
I reach out to Humber and they tell me to go Proctortrack. So I contacted Proctortrack and they told me to contact Humber. WTF

They are sending me around like a fool at this time.

Anyone have experience how this works? am I missing something here? I have already booked the exam and chose the date, the status is approved on the learner's portal
Jr. Member
User avatar
Aug 4, 2010
146 posts
18 upvotes
Toronto
Can someone who has done this process share what the total costs are? Both upfront and yearly maintenance?
Banned
Sep 30, 2020
66 posts
75 upvotes
Hi, has anyone gone through this process quickly?

What is the absolute fastest I could do this program?
- I fast tracked my CFP in 6 months (to give you an idea of my knowledge of finance)

I'm going to assume CFP is harder than RE stuff.

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