Health & Wellness

Eat Less Red Meat, Scientists Said

  • Last Updated:
  • Oct 23rd, 2020 8:03 pm
[OP]
Sr. Member
Apr 18, 2017
587 posts
286 upvotes
zoro69 wrote: Plant-based meat lowers some cardiovascular risk factors compared with red meat, study finds
A diet that includes an average of two servings of plant-based meat alternatives lowers some cardiovascular risk factors compared with a diet that instead includes the same amount of animal meat, Stanford Medicine scientists found.
http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2 ... -meat.html
You still haven't yet explained why you think TMAO from meat is bad,
but why the higher levels from potatoes, cauliflower, peas and carrots are ok.
Jr. Member
Aug 7, 2016
159 posts
139 upvotes
qman23 wrote: Cherry pick much?
from the article you just posted...

".... sticking to a diet rich in fruits, vegetables, and fish can slash heart failure risk by 41 percent. By contrast, a diet rich in fats, fried foods, processed meat, and sugary drinks can raise the risk of this condition."

Comparing a whole food diet to a southern diet says nothing about the healthfulness of meat.
The same study also concluded that a meat heavy convenience diet was NOT associated with increased heart failure risk.


Critical reasoning skills can be learned with a modicum of effort, but you have to at least READ the articles you post, not just the headlines.

link to study,
Another study that tries to imply it is the meat while ignoring the elephant in the room. Vegetable oils.

If @zoro69 considers clickbait headlines to be evidence, then this one could explain the lack of cogent discussion.

Vegan and Plant-Based Diets Worsen Brain Health
Eating a vegan or plant-based diet can be bad for your brain health, especially if you already have a low choline intake, researchers report.

https://neurosciencenews.com/vegan-diet ... lth-14845/
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jun 19, 2001
8415 posts
2092 upvotes
Insurance giant prescribes plant based diet, being the results are overwhelming.

". Dovera, an insurance giant in Slovakia, has partnered with the Natural Food Interaction (NFI) to create a tailor-made whole-food plant-based diet for their patients. The success of the “plant prescription” in treating type two diabetes indicates that this is a method we’ll continue to see more healthcare providers adopt in the future."

Read More: Insurance Company Prescribes a Plant-Based Diet Diabetics | https://thebeet.com/insurance-company-p ... m=referral

Much more of this to come
Jr. Member
Aug 7, 2016
159 posts
139 upvotes
zoro69 wrote: Insurance giant prescribes plant based diet, being the results are overwhelming.

". Dovera, an insurance giant in Slovakia, has partnered with the Natural Food Interaction (NFI) to create a tailor-made whole-food plant-based diet for their patients. The success of the “plant prescription” in treating type two diabetes indicates that this is a method we’ll continue to see more healthcare providers adopt in the future."

Read More: Insurance Company Prescribes a Plant-Based Diet Diabetics | https://thebeet.com/insurance-company-p ... m=referral

Much more of this to come
An attempt at an appeal to authority? if that counts then here you go.

I see you your insurance company, and raise you a bigger one.
Credit Suisse is a $23 billion a year company, "The new Health Paradigm. A move from high-carb to high-fat foods such as red meat, butter and eggs.

Want bigger still? How about the biggest. The insurance company that insures insurance companies, Swiss Re.

Swiss Re is one of the world’s largest, if not the largest, life reinsurer. They have multiple billions of US dollars’ risk exposure on long-term mortality, morbidity, longevity and medical-expense insurance cover. Thus, trends in life expectancy changes and serious disease incidence, including resulting occupational incapacity, are crucial to their business and bottom lines.
Swiss Re Chief Medical Officer Dr John Schoonbee calls the current high carb guidelines a “failed human experiment” over decades.
Last edited by Tceight on Sep 2nd, 2020 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jr. Member
Aug 7, 2016
159 posts
139 upvotes
zoro69 wrote: "Some of the longest-lived people eat a high carb diet, and this is a big part of their secret to living to be 100+ years young. For these centenarians, beans, whole grains, nuts and vegetables are the staples while meat and cheese are rare. "

https://www.worldhealth.net/news/some-l ... carb-diet/
And "Some" don't.
Secundum quid.
Emma Morano lived to 117, she attributed her longevity to eating eggs every day.
Susannah Mushatt Jones to 116, she attributed hers to eating bacon every day.

Find a supercentenarian vegan, and get back to us troll.
Consider getting some DHA and B vitamins while you're at it.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jun 19, 2001
8415 posts
2092 upvotes
Healthy lifestyle reduces colorectal cancer risk

"In China, an estimated 30 million people have chronic intestinal conditions. And colorectal cancer is the third-most common cancer type and the fifth-leading cause of cancer-related deaths in the country, according to the Chinese National Central Cancer Registry. Each year, more than 370,000 Chinese people are diagnosed with colorectal cancer, and the incidence of the disease has been rising since the 1980s.

Behind the increase are factors such as lifestyle including body weight, diet, smoking, and the lack of exercise. A diet high in red meat-especially pork and beef-and processed meat such as sausages, salamis, ham and bacon heightens the risk of colorectal cancer.

Thanks to the rapid economic development, Chinese people's annual per capita meat consumption is expected to reach 29 kilograms by 2020, more than double of that in 1980, said a food and nutrition document issued by the State Council, China's Cabinet, in 2014.

The rate of increase in meat consumption is similar to the rising trajectory of colorectal cancer cases in China
, with the incidence of the disease being higher in urban areas, according to Wang Xishan, who is associated with the Cancer Hospital of the Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences."

http://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/20200 ... 57aee.html
Newbie
Sep 15, 2017
17 posts
4 upvotes
Good find. Meat can be processed and digested And it does provide nutrition but it takes a lot more energy - energy that could have been used for something else like repairing of some other issues in the body. A plant based diet can also give you the right nutrients (perhaps harder to adapt to since our conventional mainstream mass diet caters to meat) but it will take less energy to process and digest and thus allow that surplus of energy to go repair. There is a reason why traditionally cultures 'fast' and don't eat after a certain time (gap for digestion to process before bed) because digestion takes energy and once sleeping is when a lot of repair takes place (if digesting, then not repairing/restoring).

Also, people eat less digestive intensive foods while sick - they consume liquid based diets - why? easier to digest so energy can go heal. think asians - eat congee while sick or chicken soup for other cultures
zoro69 wrote: Healthy lifestyle reduces colorectal cancer risk

"In China, an estimated 30 million people have chronic intestinal conditions. And colorectal cancer is the third-most common cancer type and the fifth-leading cause of cancer-related deaths in the country, according to the Chinese National Central Cancer Registry. Each year, more than 370,000 Chinese people are diagnosed with colorectal cancer, and the incidence of the disease has been rising since the 1980s.

Behind the increase are factors such as lifestyle including body weight, diet, smoking, and the lack of exercise. A diet high in red meat-especially pork and beef-and processed meat such as sausages, salamis, ham and bacon heightens the risk of colorectal cancer.

Thanks to the rapid economic development, Chinese people's annual per capita meat consumption is expected to reach 29 kilograms by 2020, more than double of that in 1980, said a food and nutrition document issued by the State Council, China's Cabinet, in 2014.

The rate of increase in meat consumption is similar to the rising trajectory of colorectal cancer cases in China
, with the incidence of the disease being higher in urban areas, according to Wang Xishan, who is associated with the Cancer Hospital of the Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences."

http://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/20200 ... 57aee.html
[OP]
Sr. Member
Apr 18, 2017
587 posts
286 upvotes
AndyRedFlagDeals01 wrote: ........ but it takes a lot more energy -
our guts shrank because it takes a lot less energy to digest meat than it does plants.
our stomach acid is the same pH as that of scavengers.
Expensive tissue hypothesis

this is plausibly the contributing factor that allowed our brains to grow.

@zoro69 post is yet another correlation with no causal mechanism postulated. There are 100's other factors as well as meat consumption that have changed with industrialization.
consider though, that the average life span in the past 70 years has doubled in China, and it is generally older people that are diagnosed with colorectal cancer.

anyways, none of this speculation and mental masturbation has anything to do with proving (or even demonstrating the potential) that meat is deleterious in any way to human health.
Post a study where adding meat causes harm, or GTFO.
There are hundreds of studies where adding meat improves health and longevity.

enough said.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Aug 29, 2011
4407 posts
2356 upvotes
Westmount (Montreal)
I'm yet to see in here any new evidences about nutrition that change what we know for the last 10 years.

Fruits and vegetables are good

Whole grain are good

Nuts, including peanuts are good (30g a day is most likely enough)

Fish are good

Low-Moderate red meat consumption is most likely ok.

Moderate white meat consumption is most likely ok.

You can put as much evoo as you want (using up to 420mll a week in cooking is ideal, see PREDIMED study). Other vegetable oil need more evidence but most likely ok. In doubt use evoo.

General low fat diet don't work.

Low saturated fat diet most likely only work a little if it's replaced by high quality mufa and pufa vegetable oil. Don't get obsessive about it though, butter won't kill you if use in a Mediterranean style diet.

Don't forget the most important: Have fun while eating and cooking!
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jun 19, 2001
8415 posts
2092 upvotes
Children and adults should avoid consuming animal products to reduce risk for chronic disease: YES

"The consumption of animal products exposes humans to saturated fat, cholesterol, lactose, estrogens, and pathogenic microorganisms, while displacing fiber, complex carbohydrates, antioxidants, and other components needed for health. In the process, consumption of animal products increases the risk for cardiovascular disease, cancer, diabetes, obesity, and other disorders. This dietary pattern also promotes the growth of unhealthful gut bacteria, fostering, among other things, the production of trimethylamine N-oxide, a proinflammatory compound associated with cardiovascular and neurological diseases. When omnivorous individuals change to a plant-based diet, diet quality as measured by the Alternate Healthy Eating Index improves, and the risk of these health problems diminishes. Planning for nutrient adequacy is important with any diet. However, a diet based on vegetables, fruits, whole grains, and legumes, supplemented with vitamin B-12, is nutritionally superior to diets including animal products and is healthful for children and adults."

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/advance-a ... 35/5901948
Jr. Member
Aug 7, 2016
159 posts
139 upvotes
PCRM has been linked with FBI-designated terrorist groups, including the Animal Liberation Front (ALF ) and Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty (SHAC). Dr. Jerry Vlasak,... called for the “political assassination” of medical research scientists in 2003.
“I don’t think you’d have to kill—assassinate—too many,” ... “I think for 5 lives, 10 lives, 15 human lives, we could save a million, 2 million, 10 million non-human lives.”
In 2001, PCRM president Neal Barnard co-signed a series of threatening letters with the U.S. president of SHAC, who was convicted on federal terrorism charges in 2006.




no bias there. /s

National Council Against Health Fraud
Quackwatch.org
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jun 19, 2001
8415 posts
2092 upvotes
"New research presented at this year's Annual Meeting of the European Association for the Study of Diabetes (EASD) in Barcelona, Spain (16-20 Sept) suggests that a 16-week vegan diet can boost the gut microbes that are related to improvements in body weight, body composition and blood sugar control. The study is by Dr Hana Kahleova, Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM), Washington, DC, USA, and colleagues."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 185819.htm
Jr. Member
Aug 7, 2016
159 posts
139 upvotes
Another PCRM post, wow.

I encourage everyone to read the one by Barnard @zoro69 posted above.
It is not a study but an Oxford style debate where Barnard takes the position "Children and adults should avoid consuming animal products to reduce risk for chronic disease"

Barnards premise was as follows.
Hunting animals was difficult for a bipedal hominid whose slow terrestrial pace could not match that of fleeing prey. Only with the development of Stone Age technology such as arrowheads and other implements did striated muscle and organs become easily accessible. Domestication of mammals for dairy products came much later. The addition of muscle, organs, milk, and eggs to our largely herbivorous diet introduced harmful substances, while adding no nutrients that are not available in more healthful products.

yet in his own words admits that "supplementation with vitamin B-12 is necessary" SMH

Frédéric Leroy does a wonderful job responding to Barnards inanities,

and then for his rebuttal Barnard proceeds to move the goal posts, create a straw man and responds to postulates that were never made! LOL
Leroy clearly won that debate.
Deal Guru
User avatar
Mar 14, 2005
13094 posts
2184 upvotes
City of Vancouver
Tceight wrote: ...
Emma Morano lived to 117, she attributed her longevity to eating eggs every day.
Susannah Mushatt Jones to 116, she attributed hers to eating bacon every day...
The base rate fallacy, also called base rate neglect or base rate bias, is a fallacy. If presented with related base rate information (i.e., general information on prevalence) and specific information (i.e., information pertaining only to a specific case), people tend to ignore the base rate in favor of the individuating information, rather than correctly integrating the two. (wikipedia)
De gustibus non est disputandum
Reverse dysfunction one step at a time.

Top