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Ecobee3 Lite vs Honeywell Lyric T6 vs Nest Thermostat E- Green Ontario Fund

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  • Jul 15th, 2018 10:49 am
Newbie
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Sep 18, 2002
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Toronto
josipm wrote: So that means Enercare won't warranty it then why would the installers take your old thermostat away?
That I am not sure of, I do not have any information on that. If anyone does feel free to post it. I would also like to know. - A few people suggest that its a process thing that they do. I am unsure of the reason.
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Nov 4, 2008
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Toronto
Tsanger wrote: Did anyone got the PEK installed? I just called and they said the installers don't have the PEK and that I'll have to buy it. And I asked if I buy it, if the installers will install it and the person said they'll have to get back to me.
I just got the ecobee installed yesterday through the GreenON program. The technician unwrapped the ecobee in front of me, and installed the PEK after checking my furnace wiring and determining that I needed the PEK.
Newbie
Dec 5, 2017
2 posts
london, on
Sorry to hijack. I got my email for an installation, I have three thermostat choices, Ecobee 3 Lite, Nest E, and Honeywell Lyric T6.

I have a whole house humidifier that is controlled through my current thermo.

Which of these will work with the humidifier?
Member
Aug 31, 2014
317 posts
161 upvotes
Toronto, ON
easy-e wrote: I just got the ecobee installed yesterday through the GreenON program. The technician unwrapped the ecobee in front of me, and installed the PEK after checking my furnace wiring and determining that I needed the PEK.
Thanks!! where in Ontario are you if you don't mine asking.

This is my second appointment. The first guy came, said we don't have power and left.
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Nov 4, 2008
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Tsanger wrote: Thanks!! where in Ontario are you if you don't mine asking.

This is my second appointment. The first guy came, said we don't have power and left.
No problem. I'm in the Greenwood-Coxwell/Leslieville area of Toronto.
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Mar 13, 2006
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Had an appointment scheduled for April 2 and got a cancellation notice via email yesterday. Currently rebooked for April 6.
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Aug 31, 2014
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Toronto, ON
someone unrelated... but does anyone know if replacing the thermostat will void the Tarion warranty for HVAC?

we asked Tarion customer service, they have us a generic answer:
"Deficiencies Caused by Homeowner Actions - Not Covered

•Alterations, deletions or additions to the home that were made by the homeowner
•Changes by the homeowner to the direction of the grading or the slope of the ground
•Defects in materials, design or work that was supplied or installed by the homeowner

So basically, anything that you or the person you hired, altered or affects may void that part of the warranty.
Newbie
Mar 28, 2018
1 posts
I just found out about this program and was hoping someone might have an answer to my question. I was reading the Ts&Cs on this and it says that if you take the free thermostat that you are signing over all savings achieved moving forward "forever"?
I assume the savings they refer to is the carbon savings that GreenOn fund and ISCS<?> then sell on the Carbon market?
If this is the case, how do they know what the savings are? Does this mean that at some point I as a consumer could sell carbon credits?

Thanks
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Aug 22, 2011
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Tsanger wrote: someone unrelated... but does anyone know if replacing the thermostat will void the Tarion warranty for HVAC?

we asked Tarion customer service, they have us a generic answer:
"Deficiencies Caused by Homeowner Actions - Not Covered

•Alterations, deletions or additions to the home that were made by the homeowner
•Changes by the homeowner to the direction of the grading or the slope of the ground
•Defects in materials, design or work that was supplied or installed by the homeowner

So basically, anything that you or the person you hired, altered or affects may void that part of the warranty.
Who cares about Tarion!
I swapped the builder's tstat with the Ecobee on day one in my new home.
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Dec 12, 2009
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georvu wrote: Was thinking of starting new thread but figure keep it in same place... you're supposed to get new in box E3 which includes PEK.

Our E3 was installed but installer would not install PEK... so basically installed as 1 stage tstat even though we have 2 stage. He said it would still operate as two stage... probably referring to dip switches setting which he never changed to manual 2 stage.

Anyways I installed PEK and set as 2 stage and had all settings configured so that at max 1F difference before call for heat. Seemed to work well and did verify wires installation.

But... temp in room would be like 2F off before heat call and when did work properly it would go straight to stage 2 even when proper call was stage 1 due to temp diff.

It is possible got some wires wrong but unlikely as checked with hvac person as well so decided to put back our Econet tstat until can firther test E3 in spring/summer. While Econet not fancy and don't have wifi module it does list static pressure which I find handy... few weeks back it was higher then what it is normally and even though heat felt fine I checked filter and noticed it definitely needed changing.

Wish it had reports like E3.

Researching online did see some folks mention that algo/logic behind E3 sometimes buggy and in some cases E3 was exchanged... I want to further test before going that route.

For person that said gas bill went up check that auto changeover to ac is off and deadpan settings. Also, turn of comfort settings unless really need.
How many wires do you have going from the furnace to the thermostat. If you have only 4 wires, then the PEK kit is needed to ensure power to run the thermostat at all times. If you have 5 wires, then having the common wire will allow a completed circuit at all times to power the thermostat. For multi stage equipment, there needs to be one extra wire for each of heating and AC if both are 2 stage.

Having said that there are arrangements where the multi staging is handled by the computer on the furnace and to the thermostat, the furnace runs as a single stage. This is what I have. My furnace runs on a pre-programmed 3 stage arrangement. On demand for heat, the furnace runs at low heat setting for 7 minutes, medium heat setting for 7 minutes and then high heat setting until setpoint is reached. This arrangement totally messed up the green on guys. It took 3 attempts to get the installer to understand that the ecobee thermostat is compatible with my furnace. I was lucky that the third installer didn't know enough to be dangerous. He saw five wires and said, this is a standard installation, no PEK kit required, piece of cake. The guy proceeded to mess up the wiring anyway causing the thermostat to spit out error messages. He had a brain freeze and wired the 5 wires as if it was 4 wires. The previous two installer crews tried to figure out what the furnace was doing and got all messed up by it. Bottom line is these guys seem rather novices and not seasoned veterans with HVAC installations. Because I had to learn so much on my own to fight with the installation company to come back 3 times, I think I know as much or more than the installers.
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Oct 22, 2002
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ibarker3 wrote: Sorry to hijack. I got my email for an installation, I have three thermostat choices, Ecobee 3 Lite, Nest E, and Honeywell Lyric T6.

I have a whole house humidifier that is controlled through my current thermo.

Which of these will work with the humidifier?
Certainly not the Nest or the Ecobee, and I'm 95% sure the Lyric won't as well (I didn't look too hard since it's inferior to the others)
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Feb 4, 2015
6325 posts
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Canada, Eh!!
will888 wrote: How many wires do you have going from the furnace to the thermostat. If you have only 4 wires, then the PEK kit is needed to ensure power to run the thermostat at all times. If you have 5 wires, then having the common wire will allow a completed circuit at all times to power the thermostat. For multi stage equipment, there needs to be one extra wire for each of heating and AC if both are 2 stage.

Having said that there are arrangements where the multi staging is handled by the computer on the furnace and to the thermostat, the furnace runs as a single stage. This is what I have. My furnace runs on a pre-programmed 3 stage arrangement. On demand for heat, the furnace runs at low heat setting for 7 minutes, medium heat setting for 7 minutes and then high heat setting until setpoint is reached. This arrangement totally messed up the green on guys. It took 3 attempts to get the installer to understand that the ecobee thermostat is compatible with my furnace. I was lucky that the third installer didn't know enough to be dangerous. He saw five wires and said, this is a standard installation, no PEK kit required, piece of cake. The guy proceeded to mess up the wiring anyway causing the thermostat to spit out error messages. He had a brain freeze and wired the 5 wires as if it was 4 wires. The previous two installer crews tried to figure out what the furnace was doing and got all messed up by it. Bottom line is these guys seem rather novices and not seasoned veterans with HVAC installations. Because I had to learn so much on my own to fight with the installation company to come back 3 times, I think I know as much or more than the installers.
Thanks

Our furnace is 2 stage and can run as such from tstat or can use dip switches at furnace board to run X minutes at stage 1 [low] and then stage 2 [high] if still call for heat [think X can be set 5, 10, 15 minutes or something similar]. The latter is more akin to manual 2 stage rather then some algo/logic for 2 stage that a tstat would do. With manual 2 stage if want to raise heat by several degrees F then furnace will run stage 1 for X minutes and then stage 2. The tstat algo/logic stage 2 would actually recognize that heat raised by several degrees F so run 2 stage right away and then eventually 1 stage.

Please let me know if connections below are right.

Manual 2 stage
Have 5 wires and if set up that way with E3 then would need at tstat:
Wire 1 to Rc
Wire 2 to G
Wire 3 to Y1 [have builder 1 stage AC]
Wire 4 to C
Wire 5 to W1 [furnace board dip switches would control stage 1 and stage 2 heat]
E3 set up as one stage and it verifies as such [stage 2 controlled by furnace board]. While this does result in having two stages of heat I do not like the manual set up as it is simply X minutes for stage one and then stage two if needed BUT often stage one would suffice for maybe X + 2 minutes or something similar that could be figured by tstat algo/logic.

Tstat 2 stage
Have 5 wires and if set up that way with E3 then would need at tstat:
Wire 1 to Rc
Wire 2 to G
Wire 3 to Y1 [have builder 1 stage AC]
Wire 4 to C
Wire 5 to W1 [furnace board dip switches at default, no staging]
Wire 6 to W2 BUT not have Wire 6 so used PEK and verified all installed as per E3 instructions and diagram
E3 set up as two stage and it verifies as such

So did set up with PEK and from furnace display and E3 graphs it was running as two stage furnace.

E3 settings also set up so that if temp lower by 0.5F then heat called [it was 0.5 or similar; lowest number available]. No reverse staging and no comfort setting chosen. With this set up if heat set to 73F then E3 should call for heat when temp inside is 72.5F BUT too often would see temp of 71F or even 70F before E3 called for heat.

At other times it would run stage 2 heat [high] when temp setting vs temp inside was less then 1F difference; so stage 1 heat [low] was more appropriate.

The best way we could tell that something not right is that basement felt cooler then before even though similar temps/humidity.

Have read other such issues from other users so like said before I'll re-test in spring.

Glad you were finally able to get your tstat installed and yes, most of us probably know more then installers.

Guy [kid] that came to install at our place was nice enough and let us keep old tstat as backup. However he was in no way interested in PEK installation. While setting up E3 I could see he chose one stage furnace, then he said it would operate as two stage EVEN though he did not check/configure dip switches.

Went back to Econet tstat [not well reviewed and don't have wifi module] but easy to install [only 4 wires R, C E1, E2 as it is communicating tstat] and like that it starts on stage 1, decides after some logic if need stage 2 and then finishes up with stage 1. House feels more comfortable as well.
.......
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Feb 4, 2010
4054 posts
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Pete_Coach wrote: So correct.
Personally, I cannot figure out why anyone would spend $300 or more on a set back thermostat. You get the same effect with a 7 day setback thermostat. (my Son has a Nest thermostat and it is no better than the Honeywell set back he had before).

EDIT: I just saw the Lowes flyer and the Honeywell Lyric T5 WiFi Thermostat is on sale for $99 (regular $179) and save the tax for the next 7 days.
These are free. Just wondering if your opinion changes? I have a 7 day Honeywell thermostat that is good working condition. I'm contemplating getting one of these 3 "free" smart thermostats so I can remotely control the thermostat - the need for this minimal...just a nice to have. But I'm rethinking signing up for this program as it seems "smart" apps are more prone to technical problems (e.g. wireless issues with Ecobee). And the fact that you can't keep your old thermostat is making think it's best just to stick with what I have. Thoughts?

But back to the original question, in case anyone else is trying to figure out which of the 3 to choose, I came across these resources:
https://www.ecobee.com/feature-comparison-competition/
https://homealarmreport.com/nest-vs-lyric-vs-ecobee3/
https://www.howtogeek.com/259644/nest-v ... d-you-buy/
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May 10, 2005
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hierophant wrote: These are free. Just wondering if your opinion changes? I have a 7 day Honeywell thermostat that is good working condition. I'm contemplating getting one of these 3 "free" smart thermostats so I can remotely control the thermostat - the need for this minimal...just a nice to have. But I'm rethinking signing up for this program as it seems "smart" apps are more prone to technical problems (e.g. wireless issues with Ecobee). And the fact that you can't keep your old thermostat is making think it's best just to stick with what I have. Thoughts?

But back to the original question, in case anyone else is trying to figure out which of the 3 to choose, I came across these resources:
https://www.ecobee.com/feature-comparison-competition/
https://homealarmreport.com/nest-vs-lyric-vs-ecobee3/
https://www.howtogeek.com/259644/nest-v ... d-you-buy/
Free? They were not when i wrote my comments.
Would I change my mined? Well, if the one I had was no longer working, sire i would tale a free one but,as I said, I am not gaining anything and mine works very well so no, I would not change just because it is free.
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Sep 12, 2017
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Kherani wrote: I got the Nest, should have went with the Ecobee.
why? having my greeon thermostat installed this saturday. Wondering if i should get the nest-e for nest protect integration. Just learned the nest also has a remote sensor.
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Mar 22, 2010
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Hope someone could chime in for my situation here. Installer came last night to install Ecobee3 lite. He took it apart and seemed puzzled about my furnace panel and thermostat wiring. He took some pictures and asked his boss how to do the wiring. Guess what... he couldn't figure out how to power it up. Ecobee3 went completely blank no matter how he changed his wiring (and I kept telling him maybe it's power issue between R and C not getting enough voltage).

Long story short, he hurriedly moved on the next house without even putting my old thermostat back on. I had to do it myself. He told me only certain amount of time allocated for each house so he was not to spend more than 30 minutes at my place. He got frustrated (for what tho? for not knowing how to install?) that he could have finished two houses and got paid for that but obviously he wasted his time working on my case.

Anyone experienced this? Looks like this contractor only goes after simple configuration to earn easy money, which I understand but is it really my responsibility to figure out all the wiring and what not and when the guy comes, I have to spoon feed him? I don't make money this easily... sorry for the rant.

Edit: Called GreenOn. Rep promised me to escalate my case to his supervisor. Fingers' crossed. The rep also mentioned that he would contact the contractor but what gives... They are only after dollar.
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Jul 15, 2003
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rapashoo wrote: Hope someone could chime in for my situation here. Installer came last night to install Ecobee3 lite. He took it apart and seemed puzzled about my furnace panel and thermostat wiring. He took some pictures and asked his boss how to do the wiring. Guess what... he couldn't figure out how to power it up. Ecobee3 went completely blank no matter how he changed his wiring (and I kept telling him maybe it's power issue between R and C not getting enough voltage).

Long story short, he hurriedly moved on the next house without even putting my old thermostat back on. I had to do it myself. He told me only certain amount of time allocated for each house so he was not to spend more than 30 minutes at my place. He got frustrated (for what tho? for not knowing how to install?) that he could have finished two houses and got paid for that but obviously he wasted his time working on my case.

Anyone experienced this? Looks like this contractor only goes after simple configuration to earn easy money, which I understand but is it really my responsibility to figure out all the wiring and what not and when the guy comes, I have to spoon feed him? I don't make money this easily... sorry for the rant.

Edit: Called GreenOn. Rep promised me to escalate my case to his supervisor. Fingers' crossed. The rep also mentioned that he would contact the contractor but what gives... They are only after dollar.
Post pictures of your thermostat connections and the connections on your furnace board. I'm genuinely curious with all these stories of techs that can't figure it out. i'd like to see if yours was dead simple or if there was something different about it.
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Mar 22, 2010
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Kevinck wrote: Post pictures of your thermostat connections and the connections on your furnace board. I'm genuinely curious with all these stories of techs that can't figure it out. i'd like to see if yours was dead simple or if there was something different about it.
Absolutely. The tech told me my furnace control panel is one of the trickiest. I really doubt that for 10 year old townhouse. Will post pics once I get home.
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Dec 12, 2009
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rapashoo wrote: Hope someone could chime in for my situation here. Installer came last night to install Ecobee3 lite. He took it apart and seemed puzzled about my furnace panel and thermostat wiring. He took some pictures and asked his boss how to do the wiring. Guess what... he couldn't figure out how to power it up. Ecobee3 went completely blank no matter how he changed his wiring (and I kept telling him maybe it's power issue between R and C not getting enough voltage).

Long story short, he hurriedly moved on the next house without even putting my old thermostat back on. I had to do it myself. He told me only certain amount of time allocated for each house so he was not to spend more than 30 minutes at my place. He got frustrated (for what tho? for not knowing how to install?) that he could have finished two houses and got paid for that but obviously he wasted his time working on my case.

Anyone experienced this? Looks like this contractor only goes after simple configuration to earn easy money, which I understand but is it really my responsibility to figure out all the wiring and what not and when the guy comes, I have to spoon feed him? I don't make money this easily... sorry for the rant.

Edit: Called GreenOn. Rep promised me to escalate my case to his supervisor. Fingers' crossed. The rep also mentioned that he would contact the contractor but what gives... They are only after dollar.
This is a new low from what I have seen reported in this forum. The first two crews that came to my place at least had the decency to walk away when they could not figure out what to do. If you are concerned that the transformer on the furnace is not providing enough voltage, take a multi meter and check the voltage between the R and C terminals on the thermostat terminal block. You should measure 24V. I am thinking the installer did not get these two wires connected properly and so the unit was not receiving any power. I don't know what the tolerance is on the ecobee for input voltage.
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Mar 22, 2010
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will888 wrote: This is a new low from what I have seen reported in this forum. The first two crews that came to my place at least had the decency to walk away when they could not figure out what to do. If you are concerned that the transformer on the furnace is not providing enough voltage, take a multi meter and check the voltage between the R and C terminals on the thermostat terminal block. You should measure 24V. I am thinking the installer did not get these two wires connected properly and so the unit was not receiving any power. I don't know what the tolerance is on the ecobee for input voltage.
Yes, I also with you on that voltage issue. He had multi meter in his truck and he simply detoured my concern to non-power related issue. He kept telling me my furnace is not compatible with Ecobee. At the end, he told me if I wanted him to play with my furnace, I would have to give him my consent. I mean, come on you had to send pictures of wiring at every stage to ask your boss what to do, you think I would let you play with my furnace? Then he walked away saying there is nothing he could do further.

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