Fashion & Beauty

Educate yourself on luxury watches

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  • Jun 8th, 2012 12:23 am
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[OP]
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May 7, 2009
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Toronto

Educate yourself on luxury watches

Before you drop a whole wad of cash on a luxury watch please read this
http://www.reddit.com/r/WatchHorology/c ... and_myths/

I am so disappointed with luxury watch makers now. Even high end brands that claim to do serious modifications to the ETA 289x movements don't do them anymore. So basically brands like Bell&Ross,Breitling, IWC, Omega, Tiffany, Tag Heuer, Logines, Ulysse Nardin etc.. just basically buy off the shelf components from ETA, ask ETA to put in all the fancy options (perlage, geneva stripes etc) for them and all these brands do is plug it into their case and resell them for a huge premium.

Even super luxury brand Frank Muller uses ETA movement for some of their watches. They claim that they assemble or reassemble the movements in house, but i doubt it now once you looks at the order sheet from ETA. As ETA can do all the work for you.

All these watch companies aren't "making" watches-they are basically playing dress up.

basically most automatic mass marketed luxury watch is a derivative of the ETA2892 or ETA2824 or ETA7750 all built by Swatch
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/ETA_SA

i myself own
-1996 Breitling colt automatic running the Bretling 17 caliber which is basically an ETA 2824-2 movement.
-2006 Omega Seamaster Professional caliber 1120 running ETA 2892A2 chronometre grade

maybe i'm just naive :o
12 replies
Member
Dec 25, 2009
408 posts
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relax! Most people don't care whether you have a modified ETA or in house movement. You are going to stress out for nothing. You have a couple decent watches (better than 90% of the population), so just enjoy them!
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Feb 26, 2004
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So which in house movements are truly in house movements?

I don't want to get ripped off.
Member
Dec 25, 2009
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DJ_Peanuts22 wrote: So which in house movements are truly in house movements?

I don't want to get ripped off.
Rolex would be the most consistent mid range out there. The only watch they outsourced the movement was for the Daytona, but that was a while ago (They used a Zenith movement, which also makes watches with full in house parts).....now I believe every model has an in house movement. Even higher end watches like AP don't use all in house movements....mind you, they use much nicer movement from JLC (which is also an expensive line)

I guess you can consider Omega using in house movement....they are part of the Swatch group, and ETA is owned by Swatch. The co-axial line is a highly modified ETA movement, and very very nice!
[OP]
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May 7, 2009
167 posts
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Toronto
M-e-X-x wrote: Just like eyewear manufacturers...

I guess I'll stick with Japanese movement?

unfortunately some miyota movements are not as accurate as the ETA ones (depending on grade) e.g the miyota 8215 has an accuracy of -20 to +40 seconds per day. maybe the seiko 7s26 is better...i don't know

also watch out for some pseudo luxury brands (aka oris) have started to use ETA clones e.g the SW 200 movement (clone of ETA 2824) and its SW 300 (clone of ETA 2892)
not that there is anything wrong with that as the movements are still reliable. But watch the marketing speak- they may say "swiss movement" vs "swiss made" watches
http://www.ablogtoread.com/sellita-move ... itzerland/
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crunchyfrog wrote: Before you drop a whole wad of cash on a luxury watch please read this
http://www.reddit.com/r/WatchHorology/c ... and_myths/

I am so disappointed with luxury watch makers now. Even high end brands that claim to do serious modifications to the ETA 289x movements don't do them anymore. So basically brands like Bell&Ross,Breitling, IWC, Omega, Tiffany, Tag Heuer, Logines, Ulysse Nardin etc.. just basically buy off the shelf components from ETA, ask ETA to put in all the fancy options (perlage, geneva stripes etc) for them and all these brands do is plug it into their case and resell them for a huge premium.

Even super luxury brand Frank Muller uses ETA movement for some of their watches. They claim that they assemble or reassemble the movements in house, but i doubt it now once you looks at the order sheet from ETA. As ETA can do all the work for you.

All these watch companies aren't "making" watches-they are basically playing dress up.

basically most automatic mass marketed luxury watch is a derivative of the ETA2892 or ETA2824 or ETA7750 all built by Swatch
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/ETA_SA

i myself own
-1996 Breitling colt automatic running the Bretling 17 caliber which is basically an ETA 2824-2 movement.
-2006 Omega Seamaster Professional caliber 1120 running ETA 2892A2 chronometre grade

maybe i'm just naive :o

All this has been said in the favourite watch thread.

All the Breitling stuff was ETA, now they have gone to inhouse movements, but have not done completely so.

Swatch owns ETA and Longines so obviously Longines will draw from ETA, but Longines does have unique movements that are not for use in any other brand.

Tag Heuer is like Breitling in that they USED to use a lot of ETA movements, but now they have inhouse movements due to the fact that their parent group bought Zenith.

IWC movements are ETA base, but still modified.ie the pellaton winding system and 7 day reserves.

Ulysse Nardin is an exercise in marketing as is Bell and Ross, but either way, if you like the look, the movements are still rock solid.

Tiffany watch is a division of Swatch.

Swatch/ETA used to sell kits and the manufacturers used to modify them, now ETA only sells complete movements. They wanted to cut everybody off and are being forced to supply movements so they don't eliminate the competition and become even more dominant (if that is possible).

The 2824-2 is very reliable and accurate. The 2892-A2 is thinner and can be used as a "tractor" to drive chonograph modules, regatta timer modules and the like while keeping the watch thin(er). The 1120 is a modified 2892-A2 with better winding efficiency and full decoration to Omega style. The 7750 is a tank that is cheap to produce and takes a beating without fail and has the familiar "wobble" that people love.

Congrats on owning two rock solid timepeices.
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Jan 17, 2003
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damn, that's for the education. I'm going to have to get rid of all my watches cause they use this thing called ETA?
[OP]
Jr. Member
May 7, 2009
167 posts
41 upvotes
Toronto
thx audidude

They are all valid points. I just want people to be educated before they drop some serious coin onto a "luxury" watch. Marketing and obfuscation is rampant in the watch industry. Its amazing that UN, B&R, Frank Muller are not ostracized by watch aficionados-maybe buyers of these watches are so enamored by their purchases that no amount of bad news can faze them :lol:

Also sellita movements are also creeping into "luxury" watches, so be aware of what you are buying

e.g http://www.oris.ch/oris/mouvements.aspx ... ovement=16
Developed by Oris.
Number: Oris 654, base ETA 2824-2
[Oris you didn't develop anything. You took an off the shelf ETA movement, asked ETA to color the rotor red and engraved your name and then called it an Oris 654 movement > :( ]
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Oct 28, 2004
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r1lee wrote: damn, that's for the education. I'm going to have to get rid of all my watches cause they use this thing called ETA?
yup, get rid of them r1lee....or just give them to me to get rid of them for you...

thx!

FS: Nothing at the moment
Heatware: 63-0-0
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AudiDude wrote: ...Tag Heuer is like Breitling in that they USED to use a lot of ETA movements, but now they have inhouse movements due to the fact that their parent group bought Zenith....
Interesting thing is, despite the Zenith connection, Tag's first in house movement is heavily based on a Seiko design and they will even start sourcing parts from Seiko now. Makes you wonder if more Swiss brands may start doing the same.
"We are the first company to announce in a transparent way that we are going to fit our movements with parts from Seiko, which are known as among the best," Chief Executive Jean-Christophe Babin told Reuters.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/ ... K320120321
The Devil made me buy it - RFD. :twisted:
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crunchyfrog wrote: thx audidude

They are all valid points. I just want people to be educated before they drop some serious coin onto a "luxury" watch. Marketing and obfuscation is rampant in the watch industry. Its amazing that UN, B&R, Frank Muller are not ostracized by watch aficionados-maybe buyers of these watches are so enamored by their purchases that no amount of bad news can faze them :lol:

Also sellita movements are also creeping into "luxury" watches, so be aware of what you are buying

e.g http://www.oris.ch/oris/mouvements.aspx ... ovement=16
Developed by Oris.
Number: Oris 654, base ETA 2824-2
[Oris you didn't develop anything. You took an off the shelf ETA movement, asked ETA to color the rotor red and engraved your name and then called it an Oris 654 movement > :( ]
Oris is a relative of...

[IMG]http://www.broadarrow.net/gsar1.jpg[/IMG]

Who uses the ETA 2824-2 and the ETA Valjoux 7750 in their watches.
hdom wrote: Interesting thing is, despite the Zenith connection, Tag's first in house movement is heavily based on a Seiko design and they will even start sourcing parts from Seiko now. Makes you wonder if more Swiss brands may start doing the same.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/ ... K320120321
The movement may be called in house, and of course that is still being debated. Before the 1887 movement came out, there was the Calibre 36 based on a Zenith:

[IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_P5-jBIt1K6A/T ... ograph.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://us.tagheuer.com/uploads/movement ... 3_main.png[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.worldtempus.com/fileadmin/us ... nalMvt.jpg[/IMG]

I guess they are going to try to elevate the Zenith brand and have its movements only for Zenith use. Using Seiko parts doesn't do Seiko any favours, and the Sellita movement isn't winning over friends and families either.

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