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Edward Snowden is the NSA whistleblower

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Aug 9, 2004
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popcorneater wrote: lolz, so you're saying that I might be reported because someone saw me arguing with my wife, and that would be grounds for CSIS to look at the video of our private moments in our bedroom? That will never happen. It's just metadata. The government will use it responsibly and only after exhausting all other options. They are trust worthy people. Besides, if I was accused of anything, I would be given a fair trial to explain what happened. Not like they're going to detain me indefinitely!

Like I said I have nothing to hide. But I bet those Brownies and child abusers would be scared though to even THINK of commiting a crime.

Again, we need to email our MP's and let them know that we need this type of surveillance here. Especially in our own homes!
What are Brownies?

Shaking my head at the rest of your post....cant figure out if its sarcasm, trolling or ignorance.
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I'll start being outraged when a completely innocent citizen is being persecuted for something he said on the phone to friend.

Until then, much ado about nothing.
:confused:
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Dec 19, 2010
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I think everyone knows everything they do online is trackable, but the fact that is official is quite freaky. You still have the hope that it's only being used to prevent terrorism, but that fear isn't enough to justify it to me. How much is truly hidden by the government? Are they sensoring things too? I'm far from the conspiracy theorist but this whole things just freaks me out.

1984, Brave new world, it's cliche but true etc, etc.....
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popcorneater wrote: I'm actually glad that no one sees this as a big deal.



Personally, I have nothing to hide.
"Everybody has something to hide except for me and my monkey." - J. Lennon

Make any political enemies, they have the ammo to use against you.
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Apr 8, 2010
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haven't read much on this and for all i know this idea could have already been debunked but
why can't all of this be fake?

why couldn't the government hire this guy to make the public afraid to commit any sort of crime
i'm sure people will be less inclined to commit crimes if there was a chance that the government had the ability to watch your every move.
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10 Reasons why Government Spying is a Bad Idea

By Marc Perkel Tuesday June 11, 2013

Image

Several people are saying, “Why do I care if the government is spying on me? I have nothing to hide!” You might be shocked to hear that this isn’t about just you. Here’s 10 reasons why the Prism program is a really really bad idea.

It’s illegal – The Patriot Act creates a secret court called FISA that makes decisions that can’t be reviewed in any other court under the cover of national security. The FISA court has issued the biggest subpoena in the history of the world to gather and store information about anything and everything that occurs on the Internet. FISA has nullified the Constitution which is the core document that defines America and establishes the rule of law. America exists in name only.
Freedom of the Press is Gone – You find out there’s a secret torture camp the government set up like Abu Graib and you want to anonymously contact a reporter about it? Not any more. The reporter’s phones are tapped. They know who called, when they called, and where they called from. They know everywhere you go from the GPS in your cell phone and where the reporters go. If you are thinking of blowing whistles – the know who you are and where to find you. Thanks to Verizon the NSA is a member of your friends and family plan.
It pisses off the world – Even if we make ourselves believe the lie the rest of the world isn’t buying it. If we can spy on them then they can spy on us. On what basis does America get to spy on the world and not anyone else? Like Gitmo, it causes us to appear like a lawless Bananna Republic.
It disrespects other countries – By saying, “We’re not spying on Americans, we’re just spying on foreigners.”, we are telling the world that this 5% of the population are “real people” and that the other 95% of the population are subhuman. If we disrespect them – they are not going to respect us.
It makes us a dishonest nation – They admit they have been lying to us and they say that they have to lie to us for our own protection. And we’re supposed to “believe” that? We have become a nation where dishonesty is required and honesty is punished.
Chilling Effect – Knowing that the government is tracking your calls and reading your email does that change what you do, who you call, what you say? When I write to this blog I know that the NSA is reading it and that it is going into their record about me. Now they know you read this too and it’s on your electronic profile. Your girl friend sends you a sexy picture and there’s some NSA government worker masturbating in his cubicle over it.
It makes us less safe – As if terrorists didn’t need another reason to hate us, we just became a global threat to all of civilization. Even if we stopped a few terrorist plots we are inspiring a lot more terrorists by doing this than we are preventing.
Opportunity for Data Theft – Why should I try to break into Bank of America to steal usernames, passwords, and credit card numbers when I can break into the NSA computers and get the data from all banks all in one place? Edward Snowden exposed exposed the spying, but if he were greedy he could have used his access to steal all this information and sell it to the Chinese government or the Russian Mafia. Can you imagine the impact it would have if everyone’s credit card numbers we stolen? Do you really believe that they can keep that kind of data secure?
Hitler’s dream – Imagine if Hitler had this kind of technology back in World War II. Do you think there would be any Jews hiding in your attic that the government didn’t know about? They wouldn’t even need to send the SS to kick down your door. The NSA would just send an autonomous drone out to kill you.
They already have a Gun Owner’s Database – You think they don’t know who has a gun with this level of spying? They know everything you buy. Bought your gun for cash but you bought bullets at WalMart with your debit card? Have you gone to a gun club, gun show, or stooting range with yur cell phone on? Do you send email sharing your views on gun rights with people who have hotmail, yahoo, or gmail accounts? Did you join the NRA online using a credit card? They know who you are and where to find you thanks to that cell phone in your pocket.

On the good side however they just gave science fiction writers a new paradigm to explore. Haven’t seen this covered in Sci Fi since The Forbin Project more than 30 years ago.

http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2013/06/11/1 ... more-98179
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May 18, 2012
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I feel like we need a tyrannical government to show why generations before us gave their lives in droves for these sorts of protections we're absentmindedly tossing in the round-file.
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Feb 26, 2003
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HandsomeRob wrote: I feel like we need a tyrannical government to show why generations before us gave their lives in droves for these sorts of protections we're absentmindedly tossing in the round-file.
That's pretty much how it's worked historically hasn't it?
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Apr 4, 2004
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Truemana wrote: If there's no surprise and everyone knew it was going on but had no proof, then why do you think it was wrong that he provided proof to peoples' suspicions?

To assume that anyone can effectively address a possibly politically explosive practice only internally, whether it's within a tiny private business or gigantic intelligence organization, is very misguided. Anyone who's tried to reason with unethical or simply poor management decisions within an organization knows that at times this is simply not possible. We don't know if he didn't try to address it internally anyway. It's irrelevant, but we also don't know. All things considered, I think you're expecting an employee of only 3 months to achieve a massive change in philosophy with an incredibly powerful spy agency, what most people can't even achieve on a day-to-day basis with a normal employer. When he decided that he did not agree with their practices and would do something about it, he really had no choice but to become a whistleblower.

He likely broke the law as it currently stands in the US. However, it is wrong to not differentiate between morality and law. They are not necessarily in agreement, and very often conflict. It's irrelevant whether he broke the law. What matters is whether the practices of the NSA, CIA, et al are crushing freedoms and beginning on a path of societal control. Honestly, I don't know the answer to that, but I certainly do not think he did this to gain fame or fortune or out of vengeance. The only logical motive here is that he truly believed what he did was a "net benefit" to his country.
I think it was wrong for him to provide very specific proof of what is going on. I didn't read any full disclosure, but from what I gathered, he disclosed specific methodologies used by the agencies. I'm probably blowing it out of proportion, but I don't think it's unfathomable that his actions could put a lot of front line agents live's in jeopardy.

I don't disagree he alone could be the change you want to see, but I would respect him a lot more if he tried and failed. We can't all be whistleblowers. You're right, he could have tried, but if his reaction to his failure was to become a whistleblower, then I disagree with his actions and question his motives.

Morality is subjective. I was just giving my opinion that what he did was wrong. Law is objective, albeit pliable, and what he did was illegal. I hope for his sake that he was driven to help his fellow countrymen. But I wouldn't be surprised if he was also an egomaniac looking to 1-up the system that is supposedly above all. But that's just my conjecture.
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Nov 6, 2010
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While I never liked the idea of the government spying on us, this is once again an issue of old dogs not being able to be taught new tricks. The government deals with the digital world the same way it deals with the physical world (ex: copyright/piracy laws). In their minds, the internet is "public" therefore, monitoring your actions is no different to them than them patrolling your streets to check what you're doing. The logic is flawed because the digital world is different from the physical world, therefore a different logic needs to be applied. I guess the question is where do we draw the line? Most crimes still happen in the physical world and while I have no statistics, I'd be interested to see how many of those crimes actually can be snuffed out via digital means to the extent the NSA has it now. Does the bank robber really post on Facebook that he'll rob a bank?
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uber_shnitz wrote: While I never liked the idea of the government spying on us, this is once again an issue of old dogs not being able to be taught new tricks. The government deals with the digital world the same way it deals with the physical world (ex: copyright/piracy laws). In their minds, the internet is "public" therefore, monitoring your actions is no different to them than them patrolling your streets to check what you're doing. The logic is flawed because the digital world is different from the physical world, therefore a different logic needs to be applied. I guess the question is where do we draw the line? Most crimes still happen in the physical world and while I have no statistics, I'd be interested to see how many of those crimes actually can be snuffed out via digital means to the extent the NSA has it now. Does the bank robber really post on Facebook that he'll rob a bank?
From a privacy standpoint what's the difference between email & snail mail? POTS & VOIP?

One needs warrants/court order and other is open season? Why?
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HandsomeRob wrote: From a privacy standpoint what's the difference between email & snail mail? POTS & VOIP?

One needs warrants/court order and other is open season? Why?
Well that's my point right? People are all trying to make these parallels between the digital and physical world and seems nobody agrees on said parallels which is why there's so many issues with legislation in that regard.
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Nov 5, 2001
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Truemana wrote: If there's no surprise and everyone knew it was going on but had no proof, then why do you think it was wrong that he provided proof to peoples' suspicions?

To assume that anyone can effectively address a possibly politically explosive practice only internally, whether it's within a tiny private business or gigantic intelligence organization, is very misguided. Anyone who's tried to reason with unethical or simply poor management decisions within an organization knows that at times this is simply not possible. We don't know if he didn't try to address it internally anyway. It's irrelevant, but we also don't know. All things considered, I think you're expecting an employee of only 3 months to achieve a massive change in philosophy with an incredibly powerful spy agency, what most people can't even achieve on a day-to-day basis with a normal employer. When he decided that he did not agree with their practices and would do something about it, he really had no choice but to become a whistleblower.

He likely broke the law as it currently stands in the US. However, it is wrong to not differentiate between morality and law. They are not necessarily in agreement, and very often conflict. It's irrelevant whether he broke the law. What matters is whether the practices of the NSA, CIA, et al are crushing freedoms and beginning on a path of societal control. Honestly, I don't know the answer to that, but I certainly do not think he did this to gain fame or fortune or out of vengeance. The only logical motive here is that he truly believed what he did was a "net benefit" to his country.

He may have broken the law. He may have even compromised the US national security as it currently stands.

However, I do see what he has done as morally right.

This story is going to grow over the summer. Heads are going to roll in Washinton's intelligence agencies. Let's hope he isn't the only employee that isn't happy about the NSA sidestepping laws and the constitution.

From how it has been described so far, and the records we have seen to date, the NSA is now akin to a rabid pit bull allowed free roam to protect the USA. Sure, it might keep the bad guys off your property, but it also poses an imminent danger to the homeowners as well.

Time for this animalistic agency to be put down.
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Jan 29, 2006
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Just wanted to provide a little update.

After the us formally asked the Hong Kong government for snowden, they officially declined due to lack of evidence and let him formally pass to Russia.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/snowde ... atest_news

I've very interested to see the results of this case. World powers may collide, and I believe the US is in the wrong.
Unfortunately, I would bet my money on the us..

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