Emotional-support animals Banned in cabins

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Dec 23rd, 2020 10:00 pm

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Dec 3rd, 2020 3:29 pm

Pete_Coach [OP]: Deal Expert; May 10, 2005; 36153 posts; 10256 upvotes; Ottawa

Dec 3rd, 2020 3:29 pm

Emotional-support animals Banned in cabins

In my opinion, long overdue. The abuse was becoming comical as opposed to real need.

"For years, the department required airlines to allow animals with passengers who had a doctor’s note saying they needed the animal for emotional support. Airlines believed passengers abused the rule to bring a menagerie of animals on board including cats, turtles, pigs and, in one case, a peacock."

"The new rule will force passengers with emotional-support animals to check them into the cargo hold — and pay a pet fee — or leave them at home. "

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... -on-planes

The Government cannot give to anybody anything that the Government does not first take from somebody else.

34 replies

Dec 3rd, 2020 9:08 pm

apnayloags: Deal Fanatic; Nov 13, 2010; 7010 posts; 1362 upvotes; Scarborough

Dec 3rd, 2020 9:08 pm

Good.

+3

Dec 4th, 2020 8:41 am

Swerny: Deal Guru; Oct 5, 2008; 13784 posts; 7945 upvotes; Toronto

Dec 4th, 2020 8:41 am

good news

Dec 4th, 2020 9:11 am

GateGuardian: Deal Addict; Jan 12, 2005; 4743 posts; 1161 upvotes; Scarborough

Dec 4th, 2020 9:11 am

In before the Karens show up complaining about how some people really need it.

+3

Dec 4th, 2020 11:20 am

uber_shnitz: Deal Fanatic; Nov 6, 2010; 9243 posts; 1321 upvotes; Montreal, QC

Dec 4th, 2020 11:20 am

This is more a reflection on the system that surrounds "emotional support animals" (how those are defined and how they are regulated) than anything about the travel industry.

+2

Dec 4th, 2020 11:40 am

l69norm: Deal Expert; Jun 12, 2007; 16131 posts; 4956 upvotes; London

Dec 4th, 2020 11:40 am

uber_shnitz wrote: ↑ This is more a reflection on the system that surrounds "emotional support animals" (how those are defined and how they are regulated) than anything about the travel industry.

I have a friend who is associated with DogGuides, an organization that trains service dogs and then places it with a disabled person for free.
https://dogguides.com/about.html

The whole fake service animal thing is a huge disrespect to real service dogs.

It takes two years formal training for the dog and costs about $25K to place one dog with a new owner. The two years doesn't include the volunteer time/ costs to raise a future guide dog to the point where it can be screened to see if it can even be accepted into the formal training program

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/lfc-dog-guid ... -1.5212623

Last edited by l69norm on Dec 4th, 2020 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

+6

Dec 4th, 2020 12:17 pm

Pete_Coach [OP]: Deal Expert; May 10, 2005; 36153 posts; 10256 upvotes; Ottawa

Dec 4th, 2020 12:17 pm

uber_shnitz wrote: ↑ This is more a reflection on the system that surrounds "emotional support animals" (how those are defined and how they are regulated) than anything about the travel industry.

I agree. This is only airlines in the US and what can accompany you in the cabin. I hope it happens in Canada too but, I seriously doubt it will.
The "emotional support animal" thing has gone beyond reasonable in my opinion. It is not just in aircraft but on public transport and any public spaces, even grocery stores and before COVID, I saw a pig in a restaurant (not the human kind).

The Government cannot give to anybody anything that the Government does not first take from somebody else.

+2

Dec 4th, 2020 2:55 pm

gr8dlr: Deal Guru; Sep 1, 2005; 12475 posts; 7252 upvotes; Markham

Dec 4th, 2020 2:55 pm

l69norm wrote: ↑ I have a friend who is associated with DogGuides, an organization that trains service dogs and then places it with a disabled person for free.
https://dogguides.com/about.html

The whole fake service animal thing is a huge disrespect to real service dogs.

It takes two years formal training for the dog and costs about $25K to place one dog with a new owner. The two years doesn't include the volunteer time/ costs to raise a future guide dog to the point where it can be screened to see if it can even be accepted into the formal training program

The problem is ppl abuse the system and make claims and in this day and age of social media, it's easy to manipulate the true "reality" and so the "pendulum" gets swung unfortunately sometimes the swing is too far the other way.

A support dog is not necessarily the same as a "service" dog like someone who is sight impaired....is it? Can the person who has the support animal cope with the several hours of travel without the support?

We're all bozos on the bus until we find a way to express ourselves...

Failure is always an option...just not the preferred one!

Dec 4th, 2020 5:59 pm

GateGuardian: Deal Addict; Jan 12, 2005; 4743 posts; 1161 upvotes; Scarborough

Dec 4th, 2020 5:59 pm

I wish large dogs were able to buy seats instead of them in cargo.

Dec 4th, 2020 7:07 pm

l69norm: Deal Expert; Jun 12, 2007; 16131 posts; 4956 upvotes; London

Dec 4th, 2020 7:07 pm

gr8dlr wrote: ↑ The problem is ppl abuse the system and make claims and in this day and age of social media, it's easy to manipulate the true "reality" and so the "pendulum" gets swung unfortunately sometimes the swing is too far the other way.
A support dog is not necessarily the same as a "service" dog like someone who is sight impaired....is it? Can the person who has the support animal cope with the several hours of travel without the support?

https://cnib.ca/en/programs-and-service ... region=gta

Service, therapy and emotional support animals

There is still much confusion surrounding the differences between guide dogs, service dogs, therapy dogs and emotional support animals – particularly about the rights and legislation that protect them. Service dogs are specifically trained to assist a person with a disability and perform specific tasks that mitigate the disability. Both guide dogs and service dogs are protected under human rights legislation across Canada.

Therapy dogs receive some training to provide psychological or physiological comfort to people in different situations. Emotional support animals receive no specific training and are companion animals that provide comfort to people. Therapy dogs and emotional support animals do not have access rights and require permission to enter restaurants, hotels, taxis and other businesses

https://dogguides.com/programs.html
Canine Vision - for people who are blind or visually impaired
Hearing - for people who are deaf or hard of hearing
Autism Assistance - for children who have autism spectrum disorder
Service - for people who have a physical or medical disability
Seizure Response - for people who have epilepsy
Diabetic Alert - for people who have diabetes with hypoglycemic unawareness
Facility Support - for professional agencies assisting individuals in traumatic situations

+3

Dec 4th, 2020 7:51 pm

gr8dlr: Deal Guru; Sep 1, 2005; 12475 posts; 7252 upvotes; Markham

Dec 4th, 2020 7:51 pm

l69norm wrote: ↑ https://cnib.ca/en/programs-and-service ... region=gta

Service, therapy and emotional support animals

There is still much confusion surrounding the differences between guide dogs, service dogs, therapy dogs and emotional support animals – particularly about the rights and legislation that protect them. Service dogs are specifically trained to assist a person with a disability and perform specific tasks that mitigate the disability. Both guide dogs and service dogs are protected under human rights legislation across Canada.

Therapy dogs receive some training to provide psychological or physiological comfort to people in different situations. Emotional support animals receive no specific training and are companion animals that provide comfort to people. Therapy dogs and emotional support animals do not have access rights and require permission to enter restaurants, hotels, taxis and other businesses

https://dogguides.com/programs.html
Canine Vision - for people who are blind or visually impaired
Hearing - for people who are deaf or hard of hearing
Autism Assistance - for children who have autism spectrum disorder
Service - for people who have a physical or medical disability
Seizure Response - for people who have epilepsy
Diabetic Alert - for people who have diabetes with hypoglycemic unawareness
Facility Support - for professional agencies assisting individuals in traumatic situations

Unfortunately there are ppl who show up at the Airport and expect to board the plane with their dog. They would claim that they need the dog and then put up a fuss. Therein lies the problem

We're all bozos on the bus until we find a way to express ourselves...

Failure is always an option...just not the preferred one!

+3

Dec 4th, 2020 9:25 pm

l69norm: Deal Expert; Jun 12, 2007; 16131 posts; 4956 upvotes; London

Dec 4th, 2020 9:25 pm

gr8dlr wrote: ↑ Unfortunately there are ppl who show up at the Airport and expect to board the plane with their dog. They would claim that they need the dog and then put up a fuss. Therein lies the problem

I think only BC has formal laws around this
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/just ... ervice-dog

It's too easy to buy informal ID off the internet for a mere $199
https://www.servicedogscanada.org/

google say there was an attempt to create a Canada wide standard in 2017 , but it got panned pretty badly at the comment stage

Dec 4th, 2020 10:10 pm

Phonophoresis: Deal Addict; Oct 3, 2013; 1610 posts; 2316 upvotes; West

Dec 4th, 2020 10:10 pm

Aww, I loved the odd time when I'd get a cute li'l doggy sitting beside me on the plane. But yes, it was essentially the equivalent of most the "medical conditions" that people try to exempt themselves from mask wearing rules.

Air travel never ceases to amaze me - it is truly astonishing how primal, egotistical and inconsiderate people are in such high densities. There's nothing more satisfying than seeing air travel rules actually get enforced.

+2

Dec 4th, 2020 11:42 pm

CanadianConsumerYEG: Sr. Member; Aug 30, 2020; 813 posts; 1222 upvotes; YEG/YYZ

Dec 4th, 2020 11:42 pm

Now need to ban them from department stores, restaurants, malls...

+1

Dec 5th, 2020 9:58 am

Pete_Coach [OP]: Deal Expert; May 10, 2005; 36153 posts; 10256 upvotes; Ottawa

Dec 5th, 2020 9:58 am

l69norm wrote: ↑ I think only BC has formal laws around this
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/just ... ervice-dog

It's too easy to buy informal ID off the internet for a mere $199
https://www.servicedogscanada.org/

google say there was an attempt to create a Canada wide standard in 2017 , but it got panned pretty badly at the comment stage

Guide dogs and service dogs are a different category to emotional support animals and have not been the issue. They are still allowed.

The Government cannot give to anybody anything that the Government does not first take from somebody else.

+1

Dec 5th, 2020 10:11 am

gr8dlr: Deal Guru; Sep 1, 2005; 12475 posts; 7252 upvotes; Markham

Dec 5th, 2020 10:11 am

l69norm wrote: ↑ I think only BC has formal laws around this
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/just ... ervice-dog

It's too easy to buy informal ID off the internet for a mere $199
https://www.servicedogscanada.org/

google say there was an attempt to create a Canada wide standard in 2017 , but it got panned pretty badly at the comment stage

This is so wrong IMO. I didn't know the actualy organization did this...I was under the impression the stuff was likely counterfeited.

Service Dogs Canada recognizes that you may train you own dog and supplies you with the appropriate identification to allow your dog to accompany you in public.

If the "organization" doesn't want to be a joke, they should not just give out these things so easily. Imagine if we were to self certify that we were handicapped (you require a actual Doctor to sign off IIRC) and can order a car handicap sign. They should do more than this.

We're all bozos on the bus until we find a way to express ourselves...

Failure is always an option...just not the preferred one!

+1

Dec 5th, 2020 11:24 am

IceBlueShoes: Deal Addict; Dec 18, 2007; 4431 posts; 418 upvotes

Dec 5th, 2020 11:24 am

GateGuardian wrote: ↑ In before the Karens show up complaining about how some people really need it.

While I agree with what you're getting at, there are people that have a legit need.
Veterans for example have said many times that their emotional support animal is essentially their lifeline in letting them deal PTSD.

The issue is the lack of any real accreditation and it getting really out of control.
Dog? Sure, Cat, Sure I guess. Pig... a little odd but they are smarter than dogs. Not the craziest thing so long as it's not a 200+kg beast.
Peacock, kangaroo or alligator... WTF?!

Dec 5th, 2020 11:29 am

IceBlueShoes: Deal Addict; Dec 18, 2007; 4431 posts; 418 upvotes

Dec 5th, 2020 11:29 am

Pete_Coach wrote: ↑ I agree. This is only airlines in the US and what can accompany you in the cabin. I hope it happens in Canada too but, I seriously doubt it will.
The "emotional support animal" thing has gone beyond reasonable in my opinion. It is not just in aircraft but on public transport and any public spaces, even grocery stores and before COVID, I saw a pig in a restaurant (not the human kind).

Hope the pig wasn't one of the courses because that's a bit TOO local...

As for animals in restaurants, if it's well behaved, leashed and sits under the table, I don't see what the big deal is. Animals are allowed in restaurants in Europe and have been for quite some time now.
Dogs should at the very least be allowed on a patio.

Dec 5th, 2020 12:20 pm

cowbunpants: Deal Addict; Feb 16, 2013; 1537 posts; 1266 upvotes; Toronto

Dec 5th, 2020 12:20 pm

IceBlueShoes wrote: ↑ While I agree with what you're getting at, there are people that have a legit need.
Veterans for example have said many times that their emotional support animal is essentially their lifeline in letting them deal PTSD.

The issue is the lack of any real accreditation and it getting really out of control.
Dog? Sure, Cat, Sure I guess. Pig... a little odd but they are smarter than dogs. Not the craziest thing so long as it's not a 200+kg beast.
Peacock, kangaroo or alligator... WTF?!

Society does not care about veterans anymore.
Fought in a war for freedom? Sucks to be you.

....

+1

Dec 5th, 2020 12:57 pm

Pete_Coach [OP]: Deal Expert; May 10, 2005; 36153 posts; 10256 upvotes; Ottawa

Dec 5th, 2020 12:57 pm

IceBlueShoes wrote: ↑ While I agree with what you're getting at, there are people that have a legit need.
Veterans for example have said many times that their emotional support animal is essentially their lifeline in letting them deal PTSD.

The issue is the lack of any real accreditation and it getting really out of control.
Dog? Sure, Cat, Sure I guess. Pig... a little odd but they are smarter than dogs. Not the craziest thing so long as it's not a 200+kg beast.
Peacock, kangaroo or alligator... WTF?!

That is the issue...lizards, snakes, horses and other bizarre critters just to prove a point. The line has to be drawn somewhere.

https://bestlifeonline.com/emotional-support-animals/
https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/9943454 ... -kangaroo/

The Government cannot give to anybody anything that the Government does not first take from somebody else.

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