Home & Garden

Enercare Water Heater Buyout?

  • Last Updated:
  • Sep 24th, 2021 1:14 pm
Newbie
Jun 5, 2011
1 posts
Old thread, but worth continuing.

We purchased a house in Nov 2020. During the review of the legal agreements (a huge stack of papers) it was certainly not made clear, what the terms and conditions were of the water heater agreement.
Of course we signed off, as with the rest of the papers. In my case the previous owner agreed to rent, we took on the obligation, without real disclosure of the implied costs.

2 months later, I got the bill for $40/mth. $36.36, + HST.
So i enquired, and got a huge run around.

Buried deep in the legals is the following implications.
The tank is a GSW - G850T45N-PDV-ES2 30. Rona's price is $940.
Assume that Enercare does huge purchasing volume and likely gets 30-40% off.
So their cost would be about $600 to $650. Ok - excluding labour to install.

During the term of the contract, the previous owner would have already paid about $720 towards that.
The life of the contract is at their determination, but 10-15 years is about normal.
So total payments would be about $4300 to 6500 dollars

For a $950 tank!

OK - since it does not make financial sense, I want out of the agreement
I was told that I MUST buy out the water heater, at $1950.
That twice the purchase price, on used equipment, that is already partially depreciated.

I would call that extortionate.

I said "I've not even seen the contract or its terms"
They said: "well you signed the contact so too bad, you are stuck with it. The issue is between you and the seller or you and your lawyer".

SUMMARY
1 - I've never seen business that has this kind of ROI
2 - IMO - these contract terms are clearly anti-competitive, since the consumer is prevented from exercising options for cheaper alternatives. A case was filed against them peviously https://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic ... 04495.html
"information gathered in the course of the inquiry indicated that the magnitude of the required buyout prices, and the duration for which they were required, went substantially beyond a level commensurate with recovery of Enercare's initial investment."

However, they dropped the case due to: "insufficient evidence upon which to conclude that Enercare's alleged conduct has contravened the abuse of dominance provisions of the Act"
But maybe more examples should be brought to that board

3 - the overall costs and corporate behaviour are absolutely outragious.

Does anyone know about options?
Member
Jan 20, 2010
429 posts
152 upvotes
toronto
My contractor just returned my 20 years water tank to enercare. And he told me Enercare these days don't give out a confirmation receipt when they receive the water tank due to Covid. I called them to confirm the return but the agent is not helpful at all saying he cann't see the return confirmation in my account, and I should wait until next bill cycle from Enbridge to see if they are still charing me. I am just wondering if anyone recently return their hot water tank to enercare and what's your experience? It makes zero sense to me they don't give proper paper work when receiving such a huge item from customer.
Member
User avatar
Apr 14, 2009
278 posts
176 upvotes
Vaughan
gamebird wrote: My contractor just returned my 20 years water tank to enercare. And he told me Enercare these days don't give out a confirmation receipt when they receive the water tank due to Covid. I called them to confirm the return but the agent is not helpful at all saying he cann't see the return confirmation in my account, and I should wait until next bill cycle from Enbridge to see if they are still charing me. I am just wondering if anyone recently return their hot water tank to enercare and what's your experience? It makes zero sense to me they don't give proper paper work when receiving such a huge item from customer.
Yes, I returned mine last week, same thing, no receipt given.
Deal Addict
Jun 16, 2009
3028 posts
1371 upvotes
Woodbridge
We returned three tanks to Enercare centre last week . All the proof we had in our hand was "photos' taken by mobile. No paperwork or any kind of acknowledgement. I do not understand how Covid prevent these guys to write a piece of paper showing serial no of the tank returned.
HVAC Professional. Committed to customer, not brand.
Furnace & Central AC Group Buy 2021
Member
Jan 20, 2010
429 posts
152 upvotes
toronto
coffeeguy wrote: Yes, I returned mine last week, same thing, no receipt given.
Let's hope we are not seeing some surprise when this month's enbridge bill comes.
Jr. Member
Jan 4, 2007
165 posts
38 upvotes
GTA
I did the buyout in Jan after paying $120. It was a year old contract.
It is a 60 gallon tank. Can you let me know what kind of tank you got and the installer contact via DM ?

My tank is working, so I just want to research which new model to get and who to use for installation if it breaks down.

Also has anyone ever done the cleaning of these tanks ? Enercare never did during rental years. I am not planning to as it is now out of contract and old. Dont want to mess around.
Newbie
Dec 6, 2014
5 posts
New Westminster, BC
Ok I have an option on getting out of the term. I’ve had my tank installed from 2012, moved in the house in 2016. The buyout is $700 approximately. But speaking with them, they can upgrade the tank to a larger one for no charge. So instead of buying out the old tank, would it be an option to upgrade to a new tank and then buy that one out for what might be around $1700 (PV60).

Or is there a min time you must rent after a new install?
Member
Jan 22, 2007
235 posts
19 upvotes
Seems like returning the tank and not getting a receipt is what they are doing...
Has anyone returned the tank and had any problems; continue to be billed for the rental or enercare claiming it wasn't received?
Deal Addict
Jun 16, 2009
3028 posts
1371 upvotes
Woodbridge
We have different experiences at different centers lately. While some refuse to give any paperwork, others did acknowledge the receipt with proper serial no etc, and gave proper paperwork. What else that before we left the center, he called in and made sure that serial no was off the list in the system.
Jimmerang wrote: Seems like returning the tank and not getting a receipt is what they are doing...
Has anyone returned the tank and had any problems; continue to be billed for the rental or enercare claiming it wasn't received?
HVAC Professional. Committed to customer, not brand.
Furnace & Central AC Group Buy 2021
Jr. Member
Apr 8, 2013
155 posts
61 upvotes
Toronto
Ryeguy777 wrote: Ok I have an option on getting out of the term. I’ve had my tank installed from 2012, moved in the house in 2016. The buyout is $700 approximately. But speaking with them, they can upgrade the tank to a larger one for no charge. So instead of buying out the old tank, would it be an option to upgrade to a new tank and then buy that one out for what might be around $1700 (PV60).

Or is there a min time you must rent after a new install?
You'd need to look at the fine print of the contract - not necessarily an easy task! Personally, I'd purchase the tank outright rather than take the risk of entering into a new contract. You rarely come out ahead when dealing with these firms.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Oct 29, 2004
1402 posts
487 upvotes
GTA
Ryeguy777 wrote: Ok I have an option on getting out of the term. I’ve had my tank installed from 2012, moved in the house in 2016. The buyout is $700 approximately. But speaking with them, they can upgrade the tank to a larger one for no charge. So instead of buying out the old tank, would it be an option to upgrade to a new tank and then buy that one out for what might be around $1700 (PV60).

Or is there a min time you must rent after a new install?
I'm in the same predicament. Did you find out from Enercare if you could upgrade to a new water heater and buy out the new one at 2021 Install price right away?
Deal Addict
Feb 17, 2012
1593 posts
428 upvotes
ORLEANS
I am moving into a new build, it is a enercare tankless. The buy out schedule says $3590+taxes on it. Is there a way to cancel for basically couple hundred and then install my own tank? Or is my only option to buy out the brand new tankless?
Deal Addict
Jun 16, 2009
3028 posts
1371 upvotes
Woodbridge
Depending upon the make and model 3590
May be a very good price to buy tankless.
Palidino wrote: I am moving into a new build, it is a enercare tankless. The buy out schedule says $3590+taxes on it. Is there a way to cancel for basically couple hundred and then install my own tank? Or is my only option to buy out the brand new tankless?
HVAC Professional. Committed to customer, not brand.
Furnace & Central AC Group Buy 2021
Member
Dec 1, 2007
447 posts
126 upvotes
spyhero wrote: I'm in the same predicament. Did you find out from Enercare if you could upgrade to a new water heater and buy out the new one at 2021 Install price right away?
Did you happen to find out if upgrading the existing tank then buying out was an option?
Deal Addict
Jun 16, 2009
3028 posts
1371 upvotes
Woodbridge
Intrigued to know if you ended up buying the tankless from Enercare for 3590CAD. If so what was the make and model.
Palidino wrote: I am moving into a new build, it is a enercare tankless. The buy out schedule says $3590+taxes on it. Is there a way to cancel for basically couple hundred and then install my own tank? Or is my only option to buy out the brand new tankless?
newlyborn wrote: Depending upon the make and model, 3590$ may be a very good price to buy tankless.
HVAC Professional. Committed to customer, not brand.
Furnace & Central AC Group Buy 2021
Deal Addict
User avatar
Oct 29, 2004
1402 posts
487 upvotes
GTA
turkishdelyte wrote: Did you happen to find out if upgrading the existing tank then buying out was an option?
Yes. The answer is no.
Sr. Member
Sep 14, 2003
671 posts
386 upvotes
Toronto
There seems to be a school of thought that a contract is subject to interpretation if
- The rental fees are not stated in the contract
- There is no term of agreement.

Enercare rentals fall into that category (https://www.enercare.ca/water-heating/w ... conditions):
"We may change our rental rates from time to time by announcing rate changes in advance in bill inserts, by letter or by any method permitted by law."

"The useful life of a Water Heater ends when EnerCare or its authorized service provider determines, having regard to the relevant factors, including without limitation, the age of the Water Heater and the cost of any repairs to be made to the Water Heater, that it is no longer commercially reasonable to repair the Water Heater."

I'm no contract lawyer but is this seriously something that would require a lawyer to get results with? There's no way it can be that easy. Enercare has a team of lawyers highly paid to go through every word and punctuation to make sure their suckers..er.. customers can't get out that easily.
Deal Addict
Apr 24, 2017
2214 posts
784 upvotes
videonerd wrote: There seems to be a school of thought that a contract is subject to interpretation if
- The rental fees are not stated in the contract
- There is no term of agreement.

Enercare rentals fall into that category (https://www.enercare.ca/water-heating/w ... conditions):
"We may change our rental rates from time to time by announcing rate changes in advance in bill inserts, by letter or by any method permitted by law."

"The useful life of a Water Heater ends when EnerCare or its authorized service provider determines, having regard to the relevant factors, including without limitation, the age of the Water Heater and the cost of any repairs to be made to the Water Heater, that it is no longer commercially reasonable to repair the Water Heater."

I'm no contract lawyer but is this seriously something that would require a lawyer to get results with? There's no way it can be that easy. Enercare has a team of lawyers highly paid to go through every word and punctuation to make sure their suckers..er.. customers can't get out that easily.
Don’t practice contract law but when I was in school it was a contract needs a start and end date. I’d guess there’s some decision that says they can have an open unpredictable contract in which they make several times the actual cost of the tank. Totally disagree with how they do it.
Jr. Member
Apr 8, 2013
155 posts
61 upvotes
Toronto
videonerd wrote: There seems to be a school of thought that a contract is subject to interpretation if
- The rental fees are not stated in the contract
- There is no term of agreement.

Enercare rentals fall into that category (https://www.enercare.ca/water-heating/w ... conditions):
"We may change our rental rates from time to time by announcing rate changes in advance in bill inserts, by letter or by any method permitted by law."

"The useful life of a Water Heater ends when EnerCare or its authorized service provider determines, having regard to the relevant factors, including without limitation, the age of the Water Heater and the cost of any repairs to be made to the Water Heater, that it is no longer commercially reasonable to repair the Water Heater."

I'm no contract lawyer but is this seriously something that would require a lawyer to get results with? There's no way it can be that easy. Enercare has a team of lawyers highly paid to go through every word and punctuation to make sure their suckers..er.. customers can't get out that easily.
Yes, Enercare's contracts would be reviewed by their legal team. It's all the more reason to be extremely careful in contracting with these energy companies. In my opinion, you're far better off purchasing your HWT or furnace outright from a reputable local HVAC contractor. Draw upon your line of credit if you need to finance the purchase. It's far better than being stuck with the onerous contracts imposed by these energy companies.
Newbie
May 4, 2021
7 posts
2 upvotes
Called them to ask about buying my water heater out, they offered me 6 months of free rental. What's the catch here? It's not like I can't just call in again and buy it out after the 6 months?

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