Automotive

Everything about EVs!

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  • Mar 29th, 2024 11:42 am
Deal Addict
May 2, 2017
1918 posts
2941 upvotes
Just on EV's not paying road tax because they don't buy gasoline, here are some numbers:
According to https://www.petro-canada.ca/en/personal ... gas-prices, canadians paid 27.6c/l of taxes in 2017. We just added carbon tax of 4.5c/l, so that would be 32.1c/l today - although I think gas prices were higher in 2017 than today, so realistically this might actually be lower. Obviously not all of that goes to roads specifically, but let's pretend it does.

I posted an image earlier in this thread that says the average fleet fuel economy in Canada is 8.4l/100KM, so to drive 100KM, an average vehicle would pay 32.1c*8.4l=269.64c, or $2.70. That means the average driver doing 17500km a year would pay $472.50 in gas taxes today.

When EV's reach critical mass, and we need to start taxing them to pay for roads, we could simply charge EV's 2.7c/km when you renew your plates. There could be some variance in the price depending on vehicle weight, lighter vehicles costing less and heavy trucks costing more (as they do more damage to the roads). It would still be way cheaper to drive an EV than a Gas vehicle.
Sr. Member
Aug 7, 2017
518 posts
795 upvotes
TheTall wrote: Just on EV's not paying road tax because they don't buy gasoline, here are some numbers:
According to https://www.petro-canada.ca/en/personal ... gas-prices, canadians paid 27.6c/l of taxes in 2017. We just added carbon tax of 4.5c/l, so that would be 32.1c/l today - although I think gas prices were higher in 2017 than today, so realistically this might actually be lower. Obviously not all of that goes to roads specifically, but let's pretend it does.

I posted an image earlier in this thread that says the average fleet fuel economy in Canada is 8.4l/100KM, so to drive 100KM, an average vehicle would pay 32.1c*8.4l=269.64c, or $2.70. That means the average driver doing 17500km a year would pay $472.50 in gas taxes today.

When EV's reach critical mass, and we need to start taxing them to pay for roads, we could simply charge EV's 2.7c/km when you renew your plates. There could be some variance in the price depending on vehicle weight, lighter vehicles costing less and heavy trucks costing more (as they do more damage to the roads). It would still be way cheaper to drive an EV than a Gas vehicle.
I see the logic but you also need to factor in the tax EV owners already pay on electricity - it's not tax-free in ON at least - 5% after the 8% rebate.
Deal Fanatic
Nov 24, 2013
6479 posts
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Kingston, ON
bya1998 wrote: I see the logic but you also need to factor in the tax EV owners already pay on electricity - it's not tax-free in ON at least - 5% after the 8% rebate.
For an EV consuming ~180Wh/km, you're around 2.7c/km for ~15c/kWh delivered electricity, or even less than that if only charging off-peak. 5% tax on that is a tiny sum compared to gas taxes. 0.135 cents per kilometre, or less, in GST on electricity, when you're talking about replacing 2.7 cents per kilometre in average gas taxes.
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Sep 21, 2004
11413 posts
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Calgary
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2330 ... otos-info/

Official E-Tron spec is out. Starts at $76k USD with disappointing 204 mile EPA range.
The 2019 Audi e-tron's official EPA-rated electric driving range is 204 miles. That is lower than competitors such as the Jaguar I-Pace, which is rated at 234 miles of range, and the Tesla Model X Long Range, which has a range of 295 miles. Audi says it made a choice not to maximize range, and noted that the e-tron maintains a 12 percent battery reserve that's meant to prolong battery life. U.S. deliveries of the first e-tron units will begin in May.
Deal Addict
Nov 8, 2017
3135 posts
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TheTall wrote: Just on EV's not paying road tax because they don't buy gasoline, here are some numbers:
According to https://www.petro-canada.ca/en/personal ... gas-prices, canadians paid 27.6c/l of taxes in 2017. We just added carbon tax of 4.5c/l, so that would be 32.1c/l today - although I think gas prices were higher in 2017 than today, so realistically this might actually be lower. Obviously not all of that goes to roads specifically, but let's pretend it does.

I posted an image earlier in this thread that says the average fleet fuel economy in Canada is 8.4l/100KM, so to drive 100KM, an average vehicle would pay 32.1c*8.4l=269.64c, or $2.70. That means the average driver doing 17500km a year would pay $472.50 in gas taxes today.

When EV's reach critical mass, and we need to start taxing them to pay for roads, we could simply charge EV's 2.7c/km when you renew your plates. There could be some variance in the price depending on vehicle weight, lighter vehicles costing less and heavy trucks costing more (as they do more damage to the roads). It would still be way cheaper to drive an EV than a Gas vehicle.
Didn't Douggie say he cut 10c off the pump back in 2018?
Deal Addict
May 2, 2017
1918 posts
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Bb0231 wrote: Didn't Douggie say he cut 10c off the pump back in 2018?
Yeah, I'm sure he said that. According to this he's only cut them by 4.3c so far:
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/randal ... the-public
Ford cut Ontario gasoline taxes by 4.3 cents a litre. He has promised an additional 5.7 cent cut during his term. The feds will increase gasoline taxes by 4.4 cents a litre April 1.
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Mar 28, 2002
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alanbrenton wrote: Globe & Mail is speculating the base Niro EV will start at $45k CAD.

I'm prepared to shell $65k over three to four years for the Long Range Q4 but if the base starts at $47.5k, I can always opt for that along with heated steering wheel and seats. We have ICEVs for the longer drives anyway.
With everyone wanting to get the $5000 rebate and compounded by the fact that the Nero EV is very supply limited around the world. Any Nero EV selling for $45k CAD will be a big UNICORN. Good Luck getting it.
RFD Admins All Drive Teslas. You should Too!
Deal Fanatic
Mar 21, 2013
6156 posts
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Canada
Redscott wrote: With everyone wanting to get the $5000 rebate and compounded by the fact that the Nero EV is very supply limited around the world. Any Nero EV selling for $45k CAD will be a big UNICORN. Good Luck getting it.
Exactly.
Deal Guru
May 9, 2007
14884 posts
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Nanaimo, BC
Not all EVs have four wheels. Some have two wings.

Harbour Air is starting a switch to electric seaplanes

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/06/ho ... seaplanes/
Global warming will be exceeded during the 21st century unless deep reductions in carbon dioxide (CO2) and other greenhouse gas emissions occur (United Nations IPCC Report 2021)

Every disaster film starts with scientists being ignored
Sr. Member
Jan 27, 2008
513 posts
211 upvotes
GTA
Are you leasing or financing your EV? Since EVs are evolving rapidly(compared to ICE) I wonder if it is wiser to lease than owning... thoughts please
Deal Addict
Nov 20, 2005
1488 posts
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Came across this recently and thought it's a good breakdown for those actually interested in EV's.

Deal Guru
Sep 1, 2004
12900 posts
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One reason I hope Tesla survives, or at a minimum, picked up by VW or Mercedes who got a real car building network.

They really got the tech down.
Deal Addict
May 20, 2017
1275 posts
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ON
pitabread wrote: Came across this recently and thought it's a good breakdown for those actually interested in EV's.

Good video. Didn't know about all the differences. So the Tesla was designed from the very beginning to be a EV, the Bolt was designed by traditional car engineers who still think the traditional way. And the BMW is a weirdo lol.
Deal Addict
Nov 20, 2005
1488 posts
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Elec2016 wrote: Good video. Didn't know about all the differences. So the Tesla was designed from the very beginning to be a EV, the Bolt was designed by traditional car engineers who still think the traditional way. And the BMW is a weirdo lol.
Yup! That pretty much sums it up.
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Apr 21, 2009
4201 posts
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Niagara
pitabread wrote: Came across this recently and thought it's a good breakdown for those actually interested in EV's.

That’s a pretty good video, not too long but still shows a lot behind the build of those 3 EVs.
Deal Addict
Apr 6, 2008
1807 posts
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josb0513 wrote: Are you leasing or financing your EV? Since EVs are evolving rapidly(compared to ICE) I wonder if it is wiser to lease than owning... thoughts please
I bought a 2018 LEAF last year. I was considering leasing but decided to buy last minute. I had the intention of keeping the car long term, but was going to lease to save costs (lower interest, lower payments, etc). The lease rate was 2.5 and the loan 2.9 at the time. I did the math and despite the 0.4 rate difference, the lease had an additional admin fee at lease end so the costs were pretty much a wash. I didn't like the restriction of a lease - if you want to get rid of the thing at any point besides lease end, it's a hassle and costs more.

Also, these cars depreciate quickly so you are taking a bath with lease prices. You have to decide what's best for you - if you're someone who wants the latest and greatest, or this car is a stopgap until a new model comes out with a larger range, then lease. If you think this car will last you for a long time with the current range - buy it. My car is a the 40kw model, 260kms on a good day. We have another ICE car so any long roadtrips we take the other car. I've never had any range issues and charge at home 95% of the time.
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Nov 18, 2006
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Pothole city
fusion2k2k wrote: Also, these cars depreciate quickly so you are taking a bath with lease prices. You have to decide what's best for you - if you're someone who wants the latest and greatest, or this car is a stopgap until a new model comes out with a larger range, then lease. If you think this car will last you for a long time with the current range - buy it.
The gap is not closing. Yes more range is available but for some substantial money. The 200km range is still at 36K. 400km cost 48K.
When the 400km cost 36K, we may see a value drop in the previous gen EVs. But I still look at used Leafs and they still sell for some good money.

On the other spectrum, you get all the Tesla Cool aid drinkers, that want you to think, that Tesla tech is worth all that extra $$$.
Sorry I don't.
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In the EV world, range is just an expensive option!
Range anxiety is an expensive problem...

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