Experience with living in or renting out a freehold POTL townhouse?

I use to live in a townhouse in Milton that was a POTL.

We started paying $54 for the monthly fee, and three months in, price increased to $78. Talking to our neighbors, they said that was the first increase in 5 years. Since then, there was no increase in the 3 years we lived there.

The fees covered the common areas like visitor parking, garbage and snow removal. It didn't cover lawn care or sidewalk snow removal.
Never had a problem with anything, and based on our experience, I would do a POTL again.

Often people will feel they may not get their money's worth because they are not only paying for snow clearing etc, but they are also paying for managing it as well as multiple administrative and other costs you normally wouldn't face without POTL, these are payments for accountants to prepared audited financial statements, engineers to prepare the reserve fund study, lawyers etc, plus you still need to contribute to the reserve fund. The fees are typically much lower than standard condos but some can be fairly high at $200+.

I pay about $100 a month. That covers snow removal, lawn mowing and plantings. It's alright so far. Don't see any negatives right now on that front. Although I can't see myself living in a TH (at least not this one) long term.

Townhomes in POTL areas have more narrow streets. usually might not even be a sidewalk.

kittypink wrote: ↑ I use to live in a townhouse in Milton that was a POTL.

We started paying $54 for the monthly fee, and three months in, price increased to $78. Talking to our neighbors, they said that was the first increase in 5 years. Since then, there was no increase in the 3 years we lived there.

The fees covered the common areas like visitor parking, garbage and snow removal. It didn't cover lawn care or sidewalk snow removal.
Never had a problem with anything, and based on our experience, I would do a POTL again.

Did you find that the board would restrict things? For example, fire pits or sprucing up your front lawn with plants or even renovations in the house?

Oneshot112 wrote: ↑ Did you find that the board would restrict things? For example, fire pits or sprucing up your front lawn with plants or even renovations in the house?

That's the nice thing about POTL, they are not condos. They are considered freehold, so you can do whatever you want as if it's like any other property (like detached houses).

Hearsay from family friend:
POTL property in Wilcox Lake area. Covered water/snow removal/garbage. After 2y POTL was raised 20% due to excessive water usage and abuse. On the 3rd year they scrapped including water altogether and had owners pay for installation of their own water gauges etc. cost about $3k. Snow removal knocked down light posts and it took them until the summer to come fix it.

kittypink wrote: ↑ That's the nice thing about POTL, they are not condos. They are considered freehold, so you can do whatever you want as if it's like any other property (like detached houses).

LMAO check the restrictive covenant and the easements registered on your title. Quite simply it is for all EFFECTIVE legal purposes a condo. The structure is a common element via easement. Difference is you don't pool for maintenance. The freehold parcel is covered with easements in favor of your neighbors.

I think of POTL as a condo townhouse that doesn't cover the roof and siding (less reserve fund). The POTL allows the developer to fit the town homes in a non-conforming footprint, so it will become more common in the future as RE goes up and fee stays the same.

I knew a guy storing a bunch of cars at a POTL once and after a while he got a notice. I honestly think that it would have been quicker if it had been a freehold as bylaw would have seen. I like POTL/condo because in slow market they are cheaper, and in hot market they are about the same. Thing that is not great is the obvious redundancies over a public street townhouse. Most people in POTL are younger so they are less likely to be crazy with any regulations than older people in an older condo townhouse. Honestly bylaw has so many rules it's about the same anyways. Where I live they had a bylaw on house color.

Just one point, if POTL is not a condo, why is adding the roof to the list of common items to be replaced the difference? I think a POTL is just a way for developers to say "freehold" while selling you a condo townhouse. IMO POTL has all the same wasted $$ has a condo townhouse, it may cost less per month but that savings is not the wasted part.

LordOfTheManor wrote: ↑ LMAO check the restrictive covenant and the easements registered on your title. Quite simply it is for all EFFECTIVE legal purposes a condo. The structure is a common element via easement. Difference is you don't pool for maintenance. The freehold parcel is covered with easements in favor of your neighbors.

Well, my experience was different.
Everyone basically did what they wanted. All the houses had different color doors and garages. We painted our garage and front door and no one said anything.
Our visitor parking was first come, first serve, with some people parking there for days.
We had one guy in the neighborhood that rarely mowed his lawn until the neighbour next door took to mowing it.
In a townhouse condo (which I lived in previously), you'd be getting notices and warnings.

JayLove06 wrote: ↑ I pay about $100 a month. That covers snow removal, lawn mowing and plantings. It's alright so far. Don't see any negatives right now on that front. Although I can't see myself living in a TH (at least not this one) long term.

Just to update this. My fees were 110 to be exact last year and now up to 135. For what? I have no idea. This is why IMO as much as I like someone else doing the work, freehold is the way to go. With inflation gone crazy who knows that next year holds?

This is interesting. so POTL is like a freehold with the maintenance element attached to it? even insurance is per unit paid by the owner?

kittypink wrote: ↑ Well, my experience was different.
Everyone basically did what they wanted. All the houses had different color doors and garages. We painted our garage and front door and no one said anything.
Our visitor parking was first come, first serve, with some people parking there for days.
We had one guy in the neighborhood that rarely mowed his lawn until the neighbour next door took to mowing it.
In a townhouse condo (which I lived in previously), you'd be getting notices and warnings.

Ok sorry, I was talking from a pure legal perspective. Theoretically you could have a condo run the same way. I just don’t understand why people obsess over the “freehold” because legally it has no actual freedoms over a “unit”. It’s all about how the declaration is done for the “unit”. Condo towns traditionally had more of a owners hands off design, so authority is more given up.

In many places like BC they don’t have a “freehold” townhouse because it is actually kind of sketchy legally how it is done with easements. A lot of the legal issues have never been tested.

I am just saying that I think there is a misconception that condos HAVE to be how they where in the past, so we have now given up on a perfectly fine legal concept for townhomes. POTL makes a lot more sense for a private road with detached homes. Builders just know “freehold” sells.

JayLove06 wrote: ↑ Just to update this. My fees were 110 to be exact last year and now up to 135. For what? I have no idea. This is why IMO as much as I like someone else doing the work, freehold is the way to go. With inflation gone crazy who knows that next year holds?

senasena wrote: ↑ Often people will feel they may not get their money's worth because they are not only paying for snow clearing etc, but they are also paying for managing it as well as multiple administrative and other costs you normally wouldn't face without POTL, these are payments for accountants to prepared audited financial statements, engineers to prepare the reserve fund study, lawyers etc, plus you still need to contribute to the reserve fund. The fees are typically much lower than standard condos but some can be fairly high at $200+.