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Extreme frost in attic - dealing with builder

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Deal Addict
Jan 13, 2014
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Calgary

Extreme frost in attic - dealing with builder

Hi, I am in Calgary, Alberta. Looking for some advice on how to deal with this problem. We bought a new home last year. After we bought it we had a master electrician come out and install pot lights in the top floor all done as per the code.

Now fast forward last week we had a full week of -35 to -42c weather. Yesterday weather warmed up and last night as had water coming down our pot lights and marks on ceiling. We called the builder today in the morning. First response was that this is attic rain and it happens. Just turn the bathroom fans on. Ok. Great.

I called a home inspector on emergency basis to come and check the ceiling. He found out that the dryer vent had partially detached and it was venting 100% moisture into the attic. This lead to ice and frost forming right there and as the weather warmed yesterday it ended up soaking the insulating and heavy water on top of the plastic sheets. As more water gathering it made way through the tack tapes of sheet and started coming through the light fixtures. Guy has quoted me $1700 to fix and repair everything including drying the attic, doing the repairs and further adding sealant to the pot lights to make them water tight as well.

I called the builder this this report. Their reply is simply "oh we can have a tech out tomorrow but we won't do anything until the frost is gone or you can simply contact Alberta new home warranty".

Like what kind of response is this? Any idea how to handle this? We have proper documented proof with photos and report.
44 replies
Deal Fanatic
Nov 17, 2012
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Toronto
Seems to me your avenue is the Alberta New Home Warranty. If the builder installed the dryer duct work, and that's the cause of the problem, it should be a no-brainer.

Just make sure you have the permits/inspections etc. for your pot lights on hand. It's obvious they could easily claim that a) that compromised the vapor barrier into the attic space and/or b) the electrician caused the ventilation to be disconnected.

Did the electrician go into the attic to do this work? Naturally they must have I expect to tie into the vapor barrier?

Make the pot lights water tight? Something doesn't add up if the pot lights are not air-tight. You don't make an electrical fixture water-tight to solve a problem of water coming out of them. You eliminate the source of water.

They need to be tied into the vapor barrier. If they aren't sealed properly, then your 'master electrician' didn't do his job, didn't pull a permit and didn't have it inspected.

BTW is the dryer vented with rigid ductwork? It's hard to imagine properly installed ductwork that has been screwed together, sealed, secured to framing to become disconnected somehow. If it's one of these stupid flexible lines taped together with 'duct tape' then have it replaced properly.
Deal Fanatic
Aug 29, 2011
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Mississauga
Except you’re not supposed to screw together dryer duct as the screw tips become a lint catch. Proper foil tape should only be used to join pieces together.

The builder probably half-assed the job and now OP is left to deal with the mess.
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Jan 13, 2014
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Calgary
torontotim wrote: Seems to me your avenue is the Alberta New Home Warranty. If the builder installed the dryer duct work, and that's the cause of the problem, it should be a no-brainer.

Just make sure you have the permits/inspections etc. for your pot lights on hand. It's obvious they could easily claim that a) that compromised the vapor barrier into the attic space and/or b) the electrician caused the ventilation to be disconnected.

Did the electrician go into the attic to do this work? Naturally they must have I expect to tie into the vapor barrier?

Make the pot lights water tight? Something doesn't add up if the pot lights are not air-tight. You don't make an electrical fixture water-tight to solve a problem of water coming out of them. You eliminate the source of water.

They need to be tied into the vapor barrier. If they aren't sealed properly, then your 'master electrician' didn't do his job, didn't pull a permit and didn't have it inspected.

BTW is the dryer vented with rigid ductwork? It's hard to imagine properly installed ductwork that has been screwed together, sealed, secured to framing to become disconnected somehow. If it's one of these stupid flexible lines taped together with 'duct tape' then have it replaced properly.
Hi thank you for the reply. The pot lights were done after a week we bought the house. No permits were pulled as this was a retrofit led pot lights which connected to the existing room light. As per the inspector the tack was used to cover and connect the poly sheets.

Also the builder inspector did check the attic to make sure it was ok at the 3 month mark so they can't blame that on us and on top of that the inspector that I hired also showed proof that the dryer line came off in the past month as there was only small amount of lint. I hope this sort through if not I will just go and get the guy to complete it. This is frustrating.
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Feb 11, 2007
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GTA
masarwar wrote: Hi thank you for the reply. The pot lights were done after a week we bought the house. No permits were pulled as this was a retrofit led pot lights which connected to the existing room light. As per the inspector the tack was used to cover and connect the poly sheets.

Also the builder inspector did check the attic to make sure it was ok at the 3 month mark so they can't blame that on us and on top of that the inspector that I hired also showed proof that the dryer line came off in the past month as there was only small amount of lint. I hope this sort through if not I will just go and get the guy to complete it. This is frustrating.
Is it possible your master electrician knocked it off? He was careless enough not to air seal your new lights, so maybe.
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Jan 13, 2014
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Calgary
engineered wrote: Is it possible your master electrician knocked it off? He was careless enough not to air seal your new lights, so maybe.
The issue would've been caught in the initial attic inspection 9 months back and as per the current inspection the tear is not more than a month old given the little amount of lint present.

Electrician did seal the lights but as per the inspector the tack tape wasn't enough to hold back the amount of water that was present. Also out of the 12 pot lights water came through only 2 and 5 other wet spots were formed on various area of the ceiling.
Deal Fanatic
Nov 17, 2012
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Toronto
Not sure what the rules are, but I didn't think it mattered if the house was 5 minutes old - new electrical is new electrical and requires permits and inspections.

I know 99% of people wouldn't do it, myself included, but on a brand new house, still covered by warranties, I'd do everything by the book.
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Feb 11, 2007
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masarwar wrote: The issue would've been caught in the initial attic inspection 9 months back and as per the current inspection the tear is not more than a month old given the little amount of lint present.

Electrician did seal the lights but as per the inspector the tack tape wasn't enough to hold back the amount of water that was present. Also out of the 12 pot lights water came through only 2 and 5 other wet spots were formed on various area of the ceiling.
OK, that's good.
Regarding the repair, I think you probably need to remove your attic insulation if the fiberglass/cellulose is wet. I can't imagine that they can dry that out sufficiently to prevent mold.
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Jan 13, 2014
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engineered wrote: OK, that's good.
Regarding the repair, I think you probably need to remove your attic insulation if the fiberglass/cellulose is wet. I can't imagine that they can dry that out sufficiently to prevent mold.
I called the electrician and this is pretty much what he told me as well. I asked him about permits and he said that if builder has an issue he is willing to and pull permit for me and will also come and reseal the pot lights once the work is completed. He explained that the standard is using tack tape close of the vapor barrier with the idea being keeping the heat in and that if water comes on it will go through the tack tape. I am just glad he is willing to help me out.
Member
Dec 22, 2016
387 posts
354 upvotes
SW Ontario
I have seen this before.

The vent had a bend in it and would not vent properly.

Collected condisation and froze due to the weather

Pulled the venting tight and ripped/ closed the end on the piping.

Leaked and caused water damage.
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Jan 13, 2014
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CanadianMatt wrote: I have seen this before.

The vent had a bend in it and would not vent properly.

Collected condisation and froze due to the weather

Pulled the venting tight and ripped/ closed the end on the piping.

Leaked and caused water damage.
What is the solution? Air out moisture and fix the vent?
Member
Dec 22, 2016
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SW Ontario
masarwar wrote:
What is the solution? Air out moisture and fix the vent?
Yes
Make sure you use insulated venting free from kinks and short as possible.
Make sure the bathroom fan is clean and strong enough to rid moisture. Also check the exhaust to make sure that is clear and not froze over.
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Jan 13, 2014
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CanadianMatt wrote: Yes
Make sure you use insulated venting free from kinks and short as possible.
Make sure the bathroom fan is clean and strong enough to rid moisture. Also check the exhaust to make sure that is clear and not froze over.
We don't have a bathroom fan as it has HRV system. And thank you for the tips!
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Aug 12, 2007
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masarwar wrote: Hi thank you for the reply. The pot lights were done after a week we bought the house. No permits were pulled as this was a retrofit led pot lights which connected to the existing room light. As per the inspector the tack was used to cover and connect the poly sheets.

Also the builder inspector did check the attic to make sure it was ok at the 3 month mark so they can't blame that on us and on top of that the inspector that I hired also showed proof that the dryer line came off in the past month as there was only small amount of lint. I hope this sort through if not I will just go and get the guy to complete it. This is frustrating.
I doubt that you can prove how long its been off from the amount of lint. Attic insulation is pretty much all lint ( atleast it looks like lint ).

Just report it. Fix the vent leakage. and get on with it. The insulation wouldnt be as effective while its wet, but in the summer it will dry out on its own.
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Jan 13, 2014
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Supahhh wrote: I doubt that you can prove how long its been off from the amount of lint. Attic insulation is pretty much all lint ( atleast it looks like lint ).

Just report it. Fix the vent leakage. and get on with it. The insulation wouldnt be as effective while its wet, but in the summer it will dry out on its own.
Wouldn't mold be a problem?
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Aug 12, 2007
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masarwar wrote: Wouldn't mold be a problem?
not in the cold for one. For another as long as there is no longer any further moisture mold wont grow. The attic is outside your house ( living space) so mold is not a hazard.
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Supahhh wrote: not in the cold for one. For another as long as there is no longer any further moisture mold wont grow. The attic is outside your house ( living space) so mold is not a hazard.
Ok thank you that's a relief!
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Supahhh wrote: not in the cold for one. For another as long as there is no longer any further moisture mold wont grow. The attic is outside your house ( living space) so mold is not a hazard.
Depends how long it's been venting in the attic. If it was in the summer then mold could be an issue. I also think it'll be touch to actually dry it out in the winter.
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Feb 28, 2005
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Supahhh wrote: not in the cold for one. For another as long as there is no longer any further moisture mold wont grow. The attic is outside your house ( living space) so mold is not a hazard.
This is false.
Mold does grow in cold temperature. And while it’s not a direct living space, It is connected with your living space.

I suggest you take swift action to remove anything wet: replace it with new or dry it out.
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