Fighting insurance company - double lane roundabouts

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Apr 20th, 2022 9:15 am

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Mar 1st, 2022 11:53 am

turbogrizzly [OP]: Newbie; Feb 28, 2022; 5 posts; 29 upvotes

Mar 1st, 2022 11:53 am

Fighting insurance company - double lane roundabouts

Hello RFD! Long time lurker on this forum and finally time to post something. I appreciate you guys' help on this.

I got into an accident 2 months ago at a double lane roundabout (Erb St. @ Ira Needles Blvd, Waterloo, ON). Was going straight (2nd exit) in the left lane, and the other driver was going in the right lane. As I was exiting the roundabout, I was hit by the other driver who failed to exit at the 2nd exit.

My claim went well at first, but after a few weeks the adjuster came back and told me I was at fault. Also talked to her manager, who had the same opinion. He insisted that the other driver is allowed to stay in the roundabout, and that I failed to yield. However, the street sign clearly shows the right lane driver has to exit at the 1st or 2nd exit.

The center of the debate: Can the driver in the right lane go past the second exit without leaving? The sign doesn't seem so.

My experience is similar to this person in Ottawa. The cammer in this video was found not at fault. https://www.reddit.com/r/Roadcam/commen ... oundabout/

Thanks!

Last edited by turbogrizzly on Mar 1st, 2022 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thread Summary

aasoror wrote: ↑ It couldn't get clearer than that, the other driver cut the OP off, failed to yield to them, failed to follow the posted signs, and didn't take the lane appropriate to their destination, and is 100% at fault.

Here is Peels region video on how to properly use the roundabout:

Right from the video (0:45): "Vehicles using the right lane MUST make an immediate right turn or a straight-ahead movement"

They actually have the OP's accident in that video (1:47), they deem it "incorrect lane usage" by the right lane driver.
"In this situation, the vehicle in the right lane cuts off the driver in the left lane intending to exit".

Hopefully it's clearer now. You need to follow the signs and enter from the lane appropriate to your destination, it's very unlikely that there would be no posted signs but in such cases if you decide to take the outer lane then just yield to anyone exiting from the inner lane before you pass on their exit.

aasoror wrote: ↑ it's not up to either OP or the insurance to deduce lanes as they see fit, lane layout in a roundabout is not something up for interpretation by anyone but the municipality that built it.

312 replies

Mar 1st, 2022 1:13 pm

mxthor3: Deal Addict; Oct 1, 2015; 2842 posts; 4022 upvotes; Barrie, ON

Mar 1st, 2022 1:13 pm

You definitely failed to yield when you slammed into his drivers side rear door, clear as day. It doesn't matter if he was supposed to exit that lane or not, you're responsible for making sure that lane is clear before you enter it.

+29

Mar 1st, 2022 1:49 pm

Thackers: Jr. Member; Jul 3, 2017; 182 posts; 197 upvotes; Southern Ontario

Mar 1st, 2022 1:49 pm

Living in KW I can attest the sign would have definitely indicated the right lane needed to exit at either the 1st or 2nd and not proceed around. That being said, no one around here understands how to use the damn things and I have had drivers do the same thing countless times before so I make sure to not be alongside someone in a roundabout as often as possible.

You would need to look up the fault determination rules to see if you can push back but I dont know where to find those. IMO the other driver is at fault.

+4

Mar 1st, 2022 1:50 pm

Guest032984237: Banned; Mar 7, 2007; 5347 posts; 3012 upvotes

Mar 1st, 2022 1:50 pm

Sorry OP, but IMHO you are 100% at fault.

You are driving in the innermost lane, and then your car is going over the right, hitting the other guy.

If your intention was to exit the roundabout, you were in the wrong lane.

______________________________

+20

Mar 1st, 2022 1:50 pm

wartune123: Deal Addict; Nov 18, 2015; 1226 posts; 1683 upvotes; Waterloo, ON

Mar 1st, 2022 1:50 pm

From my perspective, this is a preventable accident... not sure how it works for fault determination.

+6

Mar 1st, 2022 1:51 pm

kyfe: Sr. Member; Feb 25, 2004; 582 posts; 265 upvotes

Mar 1st, 2022 1:51 pm

Just because a car is supposed to do something and you hit them doesn't make them responsible. the onus is on you to ensure your path is clear before you change lanes.

it's an improper lane change that honestly could have been avoided if you yield the ROW. we all make mistakes and stuff happens

Rule 10 (4) is likely what they're basing it on
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900668

+8

Mar 1st, 2022 1:55 pm

Guest032984237: Banned; Mar 7, 2007; 5347 posts; 3012 upvotes

Mar 1st, 2022 1:55 pm

kyfe wrote: ↑ Just because a car is supposed to do something and you hit them doesn't make them responsible. the onus is on you to ensure your path is clear before you change lanes.

it's an improper lane change that honestly could have been avoided if you yield the ROW. we all make mistakes and stuff happens

Rule 10 (4) is likely what they're basing it on
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900668

+1

OP is basically changing lanes (in order to exit the roundabout) and he's 100% at fault. It is improper lane change.

______________________________

+6

Mar 1st, 2022 1:56 pm

tew: Deal Fanatic; Jun 13, 2010; 6944 posts; 8957 upvotes; GTA

Mar 1st, 2022 1:56 pm

Right of Way Rules in Two-Lane Traffic Circles

Always yield to vehicles already inside the two-lane traffic circle as you approach.
Enter the two-lane traffic circle into the lane that corresponds with your intended exit.
Once you’re in the traffic circle, do not change lanes until you exit.
Yield to vehicles on your left when you’re inside the traffic circle.
This is especially important if you’re taking the third or fourth exit. Keep an eye out for signals on your left and be prepared to yield.
Make sure to use your signals when you’re entering, changing lanes and exiting.

Last edited by tew on Mar 1st, 2022 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

+12

Mar 1st, 2022 2:00 pm

Thackers: Jr. Member; Jul 3, 2017; 182 posts; 197 upvotes; Southern Ontario

Mar 1st, 2022 2:00 pm

Both lanes in this case are designed to exit at that point which is where the issue is. Left hand lane is to be used to exit at the 2nd (straight) and 3rd (left) exits while the right hand lane is supposed to exit at the 1st (right) or 2nd (straight) only. All signage leading to the roundabout shows that as well as the lane markings infront of the roundabout. The roundabouts here have the exact signage as the other linked video from Ottawa for reference. There should be no expectation that the driver in the right lane would proceed all the way around rather than exit as indicated.

Best of luck OP

+13

Mar 1st, 2022 2:03 pm

KanataKG: Deal Fanatic; Nov 22, 2015; 6886 posts; 7116 upvotes

Mar 1st, 2022 2:03 pm

mxthor3 wrote: ↑You definitely failed to yield when you slammed into his drivers side rear door, clear as day. It doesn't matter if he was supposed to exit that lane or not, you're responsible for making sure that lane is clear before you enter it.

motomondo wrote: ↑Sorry OP, but IMHO you are 100% at fault.

You are driving in the innermost lane, and then your car is going over the right, hitting the other guy.

If your intention was to exit the roundabout, you were in the wrong lane.

kyfe wrote: ↑Just because a car is supposed to do something and you hit them doesn't make them responsible. the onus is on you to ensure your path is clear before you change lanes.

it's an improper lane change that honestly could have been avoided if you yield the ROW. we all make mistakes and stuff happens

Rule 10 (4) is likely what they're basing it on
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900668

motomondo wrote: ↑ +1

OP is basically changing lanes (in order to exit the roundabout) and he's 100% at fault. It is improper lane change.

Damn, so many people have no clue how to use a roundabout as evidenced in this thread.

If you're driving in the right lane, you CANNOT make a left turn (i.e. 3rd exit) legally.

As well, vehicles in the outside lane must yield to vehicles using the inside lane properly.

OP is not at fault.

+43

Mar 1st, 2022 2:06 pm

tew: Deal Fanatic; Jun 13, 2010; 6944 posts; 8957 upvotes; GTA

Mar 1st, 2022 2:06 pm

KanataKG wrote: ↑ Damn, so many people have no clue how to use a roundabout as evidenced in this thread.

If you're driving in the right lane, you CANNOT make a left turn (i.e. 3rd exit) legally.

As well, vehicles in the outside lane must yield to vehicles using the inside lane properly.

OP is not at fault.

Even OPs insurance adjustors don't have a clue.

+23

Mar 1st, 2022 2:14 pm

engineered: Deal Expert; Feb 11, 2007; 19943 posts; 23522 upvotes; GTA

Mar 1st, 2022 2:14 pm

tew wrote: ↑ Right of Way Rules in Two-Lane Traffic Circles

Always yield to vehicles already inside the two-lane traffic circle as you approach.
Enter the two-lane traffic circle into the lane that corresponds with your intended exit.
Once you’re in the traffic circle, do not change lanes until you exit.
Yield to vehicles on your left when you’re inside the traffic circle.
This is especially important if you’re taking the third or fourth exit. Keep an eye out for signals on your left and be prepared to yield.
Make sure to use your signals when you’re entering, changing lanes and exiting.

OP would appear to be in the right according to this wording. The signage and the lane markings back him up.
Technically the lane was the OP's and the other car entered his lane. The wordings states to yield to your left, so other car should yield to OP, and was required to exit anyways.
That said, OP was in a dangerous place vs the other car, and should have been wary them, preparing for them to make a common, incorrect move.

If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

+11

Mar 1st, 2022 2:45 pm

CorSter: Deal Addict; Mar 30, 2004; 4822 posts; 2247 upvotes; Durham Region

Mar 1st, 2022 2:45 pm

Good luck OP. Don't have any advice for you but the road markings and signage make it clear you are in the right.

Disappointing so many other posters don't know the proper way to use a roundabout.

+16

Mar 1st, 2022 2:50 pm

Ballroomblitz1: Deal Addict; Oct 2, 2018; 2403 posts; 2749 upvotes; Toronto

Mar 1st, 2022 2:50 pm

Regardless of the technicalities this was a totally preventable collision, both drivers should pay more attention to their surroundings.

That said i believe most people in North America at least are very leery of these roundabouts, seeing we do not get much exposure with them it is an area where we all have to take extra precautions to avoid potential collisions. Even with the best intentions i understand why many collisions do happen at these particular roadways.

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Mar 1st, 2022 2:53 pm

thephenom: Deal Addict; Jan 5, 2004; 3876 posts; 574 upvotes; Toronto

Mar 1st, 2022 2:53 pm

Your claims adjustor doesn't understand road signs or roundabout. I would copy the insurer's ombudsman on this, so they can get someone competent on it.

- Highlight the roundabout sign from Erb St on how the right lane can only exit on 1st or 2nd exit, and show the timestamp that the car entered the roundabout beside you and tried to go for 3rd exit
- Highlight the yield sign on NB Ira Needles (They are supposed to yield to all traffic in roundabout), so you have the right of way, and no one should be going straight until you have cleared the roundabout (further showing the accord isn't from Ira Needles going North)
- Take the satellite shot above, and maybe MSPaint the travel route of your car and the other dude's car. Specifically make note of the lane markers going EB Erb Street W.

The accord driver is definitely clueless about this roundabout, but you could have taken the precaution as well. Good luck.

+2

Mar 1st, 2022 3:00 pm

turbogrizzly [OP]: Newbie; Feb 28, 2022; 5 posts; 29 upvotes

Mar 1st, 2022 3:00 pm

thephenom wrote: ↑ Your claims adjustor doesn't understand road signs or roundabout. I would copy the insurer's ombudsman on this, so they can get someone competent on it.

- Highlight the roundabout sign from Erb St on how the right lane can only exit on 1st or 2nd exit, and show the timestamp that the car entered the roundabout beside you and tried to go for 3rd exit
- Highlight the yield sign on NB Ira Needles (They are supposed to yield to all traffic in roundabout), so you have the right of way, and no one should be going straight until you have cleared the roundabout (further showing the accord isn't from Ira Needles going North)
- Take the satellite shot above, and maybe MSPaint the travel route of your car and the other dude's car. Specifically make note of the lane markers going EB Erb Street W.

The accord driver is definitely clueless about this roundabout, but you could have taken the precaution as well. Good luck.

Yeah was planning to escalate it to the ombudsman, but was told to escalate to AVIVA's complaint dept first. The adjuster is from a third-party company.

+2

Mar 1st, 2022 3:03 pm

thephenom: Deal Addict; Jan 5, 2004; 3876 posts; 574 upvotes; Toronto

Mar 1st, 2022 3:03 pm

turbogrizzly wrote: ↑ Yeah was planning to escalate it to the ombudsman, but was told to escalate to AVIVA's complaint dept first. The adjuster is from a third-party company.

Meh, I would just copy the ombudsman and let them figure out who should be reviewing this.

From the website:
[email protected]

+4

Mar 1st, 2022 3:09 pm

Kkhan15: Deal Addict; Jan 1, 2013; 2081 posts; 1392 upvotes; Durham

Mar 1st, 2022 3:09 pm

I'm just curious how you did not see that car? Regardless what lane he was in, you failed to check your surroundings. You can't just fly between lanes without checking assuming you have the right of way. He wasn't even in your blind spot, he was clearly in the open for you to see.

+5

Mar 1st, 2022 3:11 pm

l69norm: Deal Expert; Jun 12, 2007; 19212 posts; 6278 upvotes; London

Mar 1st, 2022 3:11 pm

turbogrizzly wrote: ↑ Yeah was planning to escalate it to the ombudsman, but was told to escalate to AVIVA's complaint dept first. The adjuster is from a third-party company.

Adjuster is confusing "traffic circle" with "roundabout"

https://auto-value.ca/blog/how-to-safel ... oundabout/

.... The difference between a roundabout and a traffic circle

At one time, traffic circles were common in many areas of Quebec. Unlike roundabouts, in a traffic circle, it is the motorists entering it who have the right of way. Therefore, vehicles already in the circle must give way to them. This could explain why drivers who are used to traditional traffic circles are confused about the rules for roundabouts....

Mar 1st, 2022 3:21 pm

thelefteyeguy: Deal Expert; Jun 9, 2003; 25169 posts; 2355 upvotes; Markham, ON

Mar 1st, 2022 3:21 pm

i dont see anything that indicates that the right lane must exit.
(based on the video from OP...this is the direction that he was going...he was on the left lane and the other car on the right lane...there are no signs that indicate the right lane must exit)

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4464833 ... 384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4465912 ... 384!8i8192

+2

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