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Locked: Fighting Red Light Camera Ticket [Ontario]

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Fighting Red Light Camera Ticket [Ontario]

Alright so let me first start off by saying that I am going to fight it. I ran a red light this morning and the camera flashed twice so I'm expecting the ticket in a month or so.

I know that it doesn't affect your insurance or demerit points if you pay it. But if you do fight it, some people say that it goes on your record and your insurance company may be able to see that later on.

1. Is that true?
2. Should I request a trial or plead guilty with an explanation?

Thanks.
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Sep 6, 2007
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Really? That wouldn't affect your insurance?
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I'm sure running a red light is considered to be a moving violation (regardless if a cop stops you or you receive a ticket in the mail later due to red light camera).

So if you pay the ticket, plea to a lesser fine, be found guilty after a trial; would result in a conviction on your record = insurance rates may go up (depending on any other previous convictions within the last 3 years).

djino
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djino wrote: I'm sure running a red light is considered to be a moving violation (regardless if a cop stops you or you receive a ticket in the mail later due to red light camera).

So if you pay the ticket, plea to a lesser fine, be found guilty after a trial; would result in a conviction on your record = insurance rates may go up (depending on any other previous convictions within the last 3 years).

djino

They have no way of knowing who was driving so thus, no insurance changes. Not sure about the effect on this if you fight it in court (hence my question).
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So you want to fight it using the excuse "It wasn't me"?
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As stated above, the ticket can not be attributed to a particular driver.

Also, the flash does not mean there was film/camera. My understanding is that that there are more locations than equipment, so they move cameras around and not all locations are fully active at all times.
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Nook wrote: They have no way of knowing who was driving so thus, no insurance changes. Not sure about the effect on this if you fight it in court (hence my question).

My Bad, you are correct.

After further research, I find that the ticket goes on the owners car registration (does not affect the owner's driving abstract = no insurance premium increases).

If you decide to take this to court, one of 3 things can happen.

1) You plea to a lesser fine (unclear if this will result in a conviction on your drivers record)

2) You give a good story to the JP, and are found not guilty (no fine, no conviction)

3) JP Finds you guilty (your fine maybe reduced), they then apply the conviction to your drivers record (Which is much worse than if you just had paid the ticket before trial = look out for insurance premium increase)

djino
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flafson wrote: So you want to fight it using the excuse "It wasn't me"?

Nooooo.

I'm gonna create a sob story and stress financial issues. Will probably get reduced. My real reason isn't really legible, but it wasn't so bad that I'd feel guilty about lying. :razz:
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knapper wrote: As stated above, the ticket can not be attributed to a particular driver.

Also, the flash does not mean there was film/camera. My understanding is that that there are more locations than equipment, so they move cameras around and not all locations are fully active at all times.
Geez, I really hope that is the case. This was around Warden and McNicoll (or Finch).
djino wrote: My Bad, you are correct.

After further research, I find that the ticket goes on the owners car registration (does not affect the owner's driving abstract = no insurance premium increases).

If you decide to take this to court, one of 3 things can happen.

1) You plea to a lesser fine (unclear if this will result in a conviction on your drivers record)

2) You give a good story to the JP, and are found not guilty (no fine, no conviction)

3) JP Finds you guilty, they then apply the conviction to your drivers record (Which is much worse than if you just had paid the ticket before trial = look out for insurance premium increase)

djino

Alright then. For 3), what if the non-driver (who is the owner) goes to court to contest it and the person decides to plea to a lower fine but gets found guilty. In that case, the driver wasn't actually there to admit fault for there to be a conviction. Would that work?
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Maybe you could take a friend with you and say it was him? They might drop all charges then.
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Nook wrote: GAlright then. For 3), what if the non-driver (who is the owner) goes to court to contest it and the person decides to plea to a lower fine but gets found guilty. In that case, the driver wasn't actually there to admit fault for there to be a conviction. Would that work?

I'm unsure of what happens regarding convictions if one pleas to a lesser fine.

What I gather is, just before trial begins, the prosecutor will offer you deal to plead guilty for a reduced fine. If you accept, then you both discuss the deal with the JP. At this point, the JP will either approve the fine or increase it. Its just unclear if the JP can then apply this as a conviction on your drivers abstract. If he/she is able too, you can no longer object to this as you have already plead guilty.

So by accepting a plea, you are admitting guilt. You cannot later say that you were not the one committing the offence. It all comes down to whether the JP enters this as a conviction on your drivers abstract or not (which is still unclear to me).

djino

EDIT: If you tell the prosecutor that you still want to go to trial (not accepting his plea deal). Then I assume you can tell the JP that you were not the one committing the offence. But then I assume you have to state who you lent your car too on that day. What happens from there, I dunno.
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djino wrote: 3) JP Finds you guilty (your fine maybe reduced), they then apply the conviction to your drivers record (Which is much worse than if you just had paid the ticket before trial = look out for insurance premium increase)

This won't happen, because the charge is against registered owner, not the driver, and it will not change in the middle of the process. It will not go on the driver's record and it stated on the red light ticket itself.

So treat it like a super expensive parking ticket ($325)
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flafson wrote: Maybe you could take a friend with you and say it was him? They might drop all charges then.

Then might as well pay the fine to begin with, because by doing so, you will get instant conviction. The charge is against the registered owner, it doesn't matter who is driving the car. The good part is there is no insurance consequences.

You want to go to court to reduce the fine however, because it's quite pricey ($325)
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Nook wrote: Nooooo.

I'm gonna create a sob story and stress financial issues. Will probably get reduced. My real reason isn't really legible, but it wasn't so bad that I'd feel guilty about lying. :razz:

So you're going to stand there and lie to them about it just to get a reduction? Do you also drive away after hitting people because you can't afford the insurance increase?
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He's not lying to anyone. The prosecutor will just give him a 50% discount without saying anything.
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Take it to court. It gets dropped to $80 + court fees. Much cheaper than $325.
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Jun 2, 2011
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Red light camera tickets wont go on anyone's driving record since it doesn't identify an individual driver.

You may try to "deal" with the courts in hoping to get a lessor fine.
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These tickets are VERY hard to fight. The information in the ticket is pretty detailed.

(From memory ....)

They have a picture of your car inside the intersection.

They list the time elapsed between the light turning yellow & the car crossing into the interesection.

They list the time elasped between the light turning red and the car leaving the intersection.

I suppose you could try to say there was not enough time/space to stop when the light turned yellow to stop ... but then you'd end up proving you were 30km/hr over the speed limit. ;)

One benefit of the ticket is a great shot of your car in motion, running the red light. :)
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Busybuyer888 wrote: These tickets are VERY hard to fight. The information in the ticket is pretty detailed.

(From memory ....)

They have a picture of your car inside the intersection.

They list the time elapsed between the light turning yellow & the car crossing into the interesection.

They list the time elasped between the light turning red and the car leaving the intersection.

I suppose you could try to say there was not enough time/space to stop when the light turned yellow to stop ... but then you'd end up proving you were 30km/hr over the speed limit. ;)

One benefit of the ticket is a great shot of your car in motion, running the red light. :)
Fairly sure for a red light ticket, you have to enter the intersection on red (i.e. wheels cross white line on red, not amber).
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i recently got one of these ticket mail to me, but it was a day with freezing rain warning, i made my judgement on not to slam on the brakes, but got caught by the camera.

would i get a chance to explain to the prosecutor when he is offering me to reduce fine? or should i just not plea guilty and explain it at the court?

what JP btw?
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