FINTRAC Requirements - Disagreement with Agent

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Jul 25th, 2021 7:20 pm

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Jul 24th, 2021 11:12 pm

boogaaaaa [OP]: Newbie; Sep 29, 2020; 5 posts; 2 upvotes

Jul 24th, 2021 11:12 pm

FINTRAC Requirements - Disagreement with Agent

I recently completed a purchase for a home and was contacted by my real estate agent requesting the following information in addition to my ID that I provided earlier in the process:

· Current Employer

· Length of Service

· Job Title

· Name of School where Post Secondary was completed

· Program studied in Post Secondary

I found this request for information a little bit odd and asked if this information was legally required. The agent confirmed that it was. Again, still finding this request a little bit odd, I did some research and quickly found that this was for FINTRAC purposes, which the agent confirmed when I asked. Further research into FINTRAC requirements indicated that only the information found on my ID and a detailed occupation was required (i.e. detailed such as ‘Hotels Reservation Manager’ or ‘Petroleum Engineer’). For FINTRAC purposes.

I provided my detailed occupation and mentioned that I do not like to provide any personal information that is not required and kindly asked for any information contrary to what I found on FINTRAC, which I also shared with them. At this point, the real estate agent took on a bullying demeaner trying to get the information from me while also providing no information from FINTRAC that indicated they needed such information, which was honestly very rude and unprofessional.

I did follow up with FINTRAC and have requested a call with a regulator to get an definite answer, but in the meantime does anyone have any experiences with this? From my understanding, all the agent needs is the information found on my ID and a detailed occupation, which I provided in sufficient detail.

15 replies

Jul 24th, 2021 11:42 pm

Anikiri: Deal Guru; May 1, 2012; 10484 posts; 11241 upvotes; Toronto

Jul 24th, 2021 11:42 pm

Call your agent's Broker of Record and ask the Broker whats going on here.

Jul 24th, 2021 11:50 pm

boogaaaaa [OP]: Newbie; Sep 29, 2020; 5 posts; 2 upvotes

Jul 24th, 2021 11:50 pm

Anikiri wrote: ↑ Call your agent's Broker of Record and ask the Broker whats going on here.

I did follow-up with the Manager of the Brokerage and they also stated is was required, but did not provide any source stating as such. I'll likely just call around other brokerages in the network to get their feedback and then initiate a RECO complaint against the agent and the broker.

Jul 25th, 2021 5:55 am

sherman51: Deal Addict; Mar 23, 2011; 2115 posts; 1237 upvotes; Etobicoke

Jul 25th, 2021 5:55 am

You can find the actual fintrac forms online. You only need the occupation information ie teacher, nurse, retired.
You will have to provide information like your drivers licence too but that is the extent of the information needed.

-----------------------------------------------------

"It's better to be dead and cool...than alive and uncool!"

Jul 25th, 2021 9:02 am

luckystrike1: Deal Addict; Nov 16, 2011; 1524 posts; 1238 upvotes; Hamilton

Jul 25th, 2021 9:02 am

here is a link to Fintrac requirements for RE persons.

https://www.fintrac-canafe.gc.ca/re-ed/real-eng

+2

Jul 25th, 2021 9:32 am

krn905: Deal Addict; Dec 10, 2017; 2275 posts; 2353 upvotes; Toronto

Jul 25th, 2021 9:32 am

Good idea calling up FINTRAC about disclosure requirements given what u stated above, if you don't want someone up your ass.

Probably flagged for life now id imagine.

Jul 25th, 2021 11:07 am

oilerfan89: Deal Addict; Sep 15, 2017; 1110 posts; 1485 upvotes

Jul 25th, 2021 11:07 am

I've dealt with FINTRAC quite a bit in the past, a drivers license or passport and specific occupation should be all that's necessary in most cases. That's been my experience.

They have to cover their butts in regard to proceeds of crime and money laundering legislation, and without knowing the specifics, I couldn't venture to guess what made them suspicious.

Jul 25th, 2021 11:56 am

JayLove06: Deal Expert; Feb 29, 2008; 19928 posts; 18635 upvotes; Tarrana & The Ri…

Jul 25th, 2021 11:56 am

Good job OP.

Jul 25th, 2021 12:57 pm

licenced: Deal Fanatic; Jul 3, 2011; 6517 posts; 3793 upvotes; Thornhill

Jul 25th, 2021 12:57 pm

Name of School where Post Secondary was completed

· Program studied in Post Secondary

Not necessary. Call him out on it and demand he explain to you exactly why this information is necessary. Do it in email not verbally and keep the correspondence for 7 years.

Jul 25th, 2021 1:06 pm

boogaaaaa [OP]: Newbie; Sep 29, 2020; 5 posts; 2 upvotes

Jul 25th, 2021 1:06 pm

Thanks for the replies everyone and confirming my suspicions.

oilerfan89 wrote: ↑ I've dealt with FINTRAC quite a bit in the past, a drivers license or passport and specific occupation should be all that's necessary in most cases. That's been my experience.

They have to cover their butts in regard to proceeds of crime and money laundering legislation, and without knowing the specifics, I couldn't venture to guess what made them suspicious.

I don't think it has anything to do with suspicion. They said they needed the information for FINTRAC reporting purposes and showed the form they need to fill out, form 630. This form doesn't request anything outside ID related information and occupation. Even the forms that they fill out in case of suspicious activity don't have a field for Employer. Personally, I just think they do not understand what they are doing and what they actually need.

licenced wrote: ↑ Not necessary. Call him out on it and demand he explain to you exactly why this information is necessary. Do it in email not verbally and keep the correspondence for 7 years.

The entire interaction with exception to (1) phone call where I was brushed off is in e-mail; the (1) phone call is recorded as I tend to record important calls. I'm all set for record keeping purposes.

Jul 25th, 2021 1:29 pm

oilerfan89: Deal Addict; Sep 15, 2017; 1110 posts; 1485 upvotes

Jul 25th, 2021 1:29 pm

boogaaaaa wrote: ↑ Thanks for the replies everyone and confirming my suspicions.

I don't think it has anything to do with suspicion. They said they needed the information for FINTRAC reporting purposes and showed the form they need to fill out, form 630. This form doesn't request anything outside ID related information and occupation. Even the forms that they fill out in case of suspicious activity don't have a field for Employer. Personally, I just think they do not understand what they are doing and what they actually need.

The thing is, banks and other financial entities all report to Fintrac all the time without your knowledge, especially any transactions approaching or over $10,000 for PCMLTFA, its super broad legislation. You've likely had dozens that you are unaware of.. I'm not sure why they are asking all the schooling related items and extra information, we never had to and I guarantee we were much higher risk.. Did you try to pay in a large amount of cash for anything?

+1

Jul 25th, 2021 1:42 pm

boogaaaaa [OP]: Newbie; Sep 29, 2020; 5 posts; 2 upvotes

Jul 25th, 2021 1:42 pm

oilerfan89 wrote: ↑ The thing is, banks and other financial entities all report to Fintrac all the time without your knowledge, especially any transactions approaching or over $10,000 for PCMLTFA, its super broad legislation. You've likely had dozens that you are unaware of.. I'm not sure why they are asking all the schooling related items and extra information, we never had to and I guarantee we were much higher risk.. Did you try to pay in a large amount of cash for anything?

Yes, I understand that that FINTRAC extends to various institutions and have a okay understanding of what triggers reporting as my ex-gf worked in AML. The sale has not closed yet, so the only money given to the agent/broker was a ~9% deposit; the home value was <650k and was jointly purchased. I believe the bank representative handling the mortgage also reached out directly to the agent as some information was missing on the initial forms.

Jul 25th, 2021 3:10 pm

JayLove06: Deal Expert; Feb 29, 2008; 19928 posts; 18635 upvotes; Tarrana & The Ri…

Jul 25th, 2021 3:10 pm

What does your program have to do with anything unless it is pertinent to the deal? Makes no sense.

What are they looking for?

Jul 25th, 2021 5:34 pm

CreateAnAccount: Newbie; Dec 17, 2018; 34 posts; 17 upvotes

Jul 25th, 2021 5:34 pm

Unfortunately a lot of realtors don't seem to understand the requirements for FINTRAC. (It doesn't help either when the form has multiple fields to fill in and doesn't tell them which ones are necessary).

What you've arrived at is correct. You only have to provide basic info: ID and your occupation.

Also I find it sad that after escalating with the Broker of Record/Manager, they don't know either.

Jul 25th, 2021 5:40 pm

atom2020: Deal Addict; Nov 2, 2020; 1438 posts; 2075 upvotes

Jul 25th, 2021 5:40 pm

It could be that the realtor thinks they need to do this even though it’s not necessary. I did go to the government site and reviewed the requirements and don’t see anything about schooling other than in the dual process method which says this only for people enrolled in school:

For a currently enrolled student, a transcript or documentation issued by a school that contains a unique reference number

In your case it appears you already fulfilled everything and gave necessary info. Not sure why they would question you on the other stuff and they certainly should not bully you or be rude to you. That’s very unprofessional of them.

Jul 25th, 2021 7:20 pm

jmc111: Deal Addict; Mar 10, 2014; 3409 posts; 3679 upvotes

Jul 25th, 2021 7:20 pm

As mentioned by a previous reply that FINTRAC is an organization that verifies that the purchaser is not using illegal proceeds (money laundering, organized crime, etc.) to buy a property. Usually when you are buying and selling at the same time, there should not be any issue as they know where the proceeds are coming from.

Fintrac only came in effect since Dec. 30, 2008.

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