Automotive

Frame Straightening and Manual Wheel Alignment in the Toronto Area

  • Last Updated:
  • Sep 19th, 2021 2:51 pm
Newbie
Sep 30, 2016
17 posts
Toronto

Frame Straightening and Manual Wheel Alignment in the Toronto Area

Does anyone know of any shops in the Toronto area aside from Woodbridge Alignment that straighten car frames and do wheel alignments without the machine?

The car has been pulling to the right since a minor accident on the front right side and the computer specs aren't working.

I took the car to Woodbridge Alignment on recommendation from my mechanic but they don't want to try and fix the issue without the OEM wheels and tires (the ones on the door sticker) which I sold.

That 235/45R 18 combo was too loud and noisy on my Honda so I minus sized to the base model 205/65R 16 tires on 16" Enkei wheels. I know it's not the aftermarket wheels and tires because this issue started after the accident with the OEM wheels and tires on and it's the same pull regardless of which set of wheels and tires I have on (OEM, winter steelies, Enkei Draco, etc.). I have a 2014 Honda Accord Sport.

So I want to get the frame straightening and computerless alignment done with the 16" Enkei Draco wheels on.
24 replies
Newbie
Sep 30, 2016
17 posts
Toronto
Nevermind, a Google search answered my question, there a quite a few body shops that do this work. :facepalm:

- I'll still take recommendations though, thanks!
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Feb 11, 2007
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Never heard bs like you need OEM wheels. Altech alignment in Etobicoke does mine on aftermarket wheels.

And you should be able to align even with a bent body, unless it's so bad that you run out of adjustment.
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Newbie
Sep 30, 2016
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Toronto
engineered wrote: And you should be able to align even with a bent body, unless it's so bad that you run out of adjustment.
- Thanks. Yes, it aligns while sitting still in the shop but still pulls to the right out on the road.
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Apr 3, 2007
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How minor was the accident .
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aplusr wrote: - Thanks. Yes, it aligns while sitting still in the shop but still pulls to the right out on the road.
Are your bushings worn? That would cause the alignment to change when you drive.
How old is the car and how many km?
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Sep 30, 2016
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Toronto
engineered wrote: Are your bushings worn? That would cause the alignment to change when you drive.
How old is the car and how many km?
- I replaced the bushings and all of the other suspension components (shock absorbers, tie rods, links, etc.) in an attempt to fix the issue. No luck. It's a 2014 with 57k km.
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aplusr wrote: - I replaced the bushings and all of the other suspension components (shock absorbers, tie rods, links, etc.) in an attempt to fix the issue. No luck. It's a 2014 with 57k km.
Then whoever did the alignment didn't do it correctly.

Are you just feeling the crowning on the road or does it happen on perfectly flat and not rutted roads?

Are your wheels the same offset as stock? Are they wider?
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Sep 30, 2016
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Toronto
engineered wrote: Then whoever did the alignment didn't do it correctly.
I've done over ten alignments at different shops including Honda dealerships after replacing different suspension components in batches. I doubt they're all doing it incorrectly.
engineered wrote: Are you just feeling the crowning on the road or does it happen on perfectly flat and not rutted roads?
I tested the same car from a dealership in Etobicoke and and mine back to back on the same roads. It's not the road crown.
engineered wrote: Are your wheels the same offset as stock? Are they wider?
The aftermarket wheels are 45 mm offset while the OEM wheels are 55 mm. And the aftermarket wheels are 7" wide while the OEM ones are 8" wide: https://www.wheel-size.com/calc/?wheel1 ... 0mm&sr=0mm.

My winter steelies had no pull issue with a 45 mm offset and 6.5" wide (https://www.wheel-size.com/calc/?wheel1 ... 0mm&sr=0mm).

This pull issue started after I jumped two curbs on the right side of the vehicle while the left side remained on the road. Hence the bent frame suggestion from a couple of shops that tried to fix the pull.
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aplusr wrote: I've done over ten alignments at different shops including Honda dealerships after replacing different suspension components in batches. I doubt they're all doing it incorrectly.


I tested the same car from a dealership in Etobicoke and and mine back to back on the same roads. It's not the road crown.


The aftermarket wheels are 45 mm offset while the OEM wheels are 55 mm. And the aftermarket wheels are 7" wide while the OEM ones are 8" wide: https://www.wheel-size.com/calc/?wheel1 ... 0mm&sr=0mm.

My winter steelies had no pull issue with a 45 mm offset and 6.5" wide (https://www.wheel-size.com/calc/?wheel1 ... 0mm&sr=0mm).

This pull issue started after I jumped two curbs on the right side of the vehicle while the left side remained on the road. Hence the bent frame suggestion from a couple of shops that tried to fix the pull.
And all suspension components were changed on the right side? Were they confirmed to be installed correctly?
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Sep 30, 2016
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engineered wrote: And all suspension components were changed on the right side? Were they confirmed to be installed correctly?
- I had everything replaced in pairs (left and right side). There's no evidence that the parts aren't installed correctly. At least ten shops including over three Honda dealerships have had a crack at it.
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aplusr wrote: - I had everything replaced in pairs (left and right side). There's no evidence that the parts aren't installed correctly. At least ten shops including over three Honda dealerships have had a crack at it.
Then the alignment must be incorrect or your aftermarket rims are causing problems with it.
I would suggest zero toe and minimal camber on your rims. Which is probably more neutral than your car's alignment specs.
If body (there is no frame) is bent, then the alignment machine would show that it can't be aligned to specs.
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Sep 30, 2016
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engineered wrote: I would suggest zero toe and minimal camber on your rims. Which is probably more neutral than your car's alignment specs.
So you think the offset (10mm positive scrub radius) is making the car more susceptible to the road crown? How about wheel spacers (e.g., https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0753H ... UTF8&psc=1) would these work with the aftermarket 45mm offset wheels + OEM alignment specs? But if the offset is the problem, how come my steel wheels with 54 mm offset still pull to the right like the 45 mm aftermarket wheels? And what happens if I put the OEM wheels and tires back on like Woodbridge alignment suggested, then do the alignment, and it still pulls to the right? Since I sold the original set I'd be out a couple grand "upgrading" back to this set up.
engineered wrote: If body (there is no frame) is bent, then the alignment machine would show that it can't be aligned to specs.
Is it possible for the body to be bent in such a way that causes a pull but is still able to pass the alignment specs?

Thanks for your help!
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aplusr wrote: So you think the offset (10mm positive scrub radius) is making the car more susceptible to the road crown? How about wheel spacers (e.g., https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0753H ... UTF8&psc=1) would these work with the aftermarket 45mm offset wheels + OEM alignment specs? But if the offset is the problem, how come my steel wheels with 54 mm offset still pull to the right like the 45 mm aftermarket wheels? And what happens if I put the OEM wheels and tires back on like Woodbridge alignment suggested, then do the alignment, and it still pulls to the right? Since I sold the original set I'd be out a couple grand "upgrading" back to this set up.

Is it possible for the body to be bent in such a way that causes a pull but is still able to pass the alignment specs?

Thanks for your help!
I don't think it's your wheels, but the shop thinks so, and you're running out of options.

Not really, if the alignment is good, then it's good. Doesn't matter if your car is bent in half or not.
If I were you, I'd rotate the tires around. If that didn't help, then I'd take it to a different alignment shop.

How badly does it pull? Is it the same on crowned roads as it is on flat? At any speed?
Does it happen when accelerating? Coasting? Braking?
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aplusr wrote: The aftermarket wheels are 45 mm offset while the OEM wheels are 55 mm. And the aftermarket wheels are 7" wide while the OEM ones are 8" wide: https://www.wheel-size.com/calc/?wheel1 ... 0mm&sr=0mm.

My winter steelies had no pull issue with a 45 mm offset and 6.5" wide (https://www.wheel-size.com/calc/?wheel1 ... 0mm&sr=0mm).

This pull issue started after I jumped two curbs on the right side of the vehicle while the left side remained on the road. Hence the bent frame suggestion from a couple of shops that tried to fix the pull.
aplusr wrote: So you think the offset (10mm positive scrub radius) is making the car more susceptible to the road crown? How about wheel spacers (e.g., https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0753H ... UTF8&psc=1) would these work with the aftermarket 45mm offset wheels + OEM alignment specs? But if the offset is the problem, how come my steel wheels with 54 mm offset still pull to the right like the 45 mm aftermarket wheels? And what happens if I put the OEM wheels and tires back on like Woodbridge alignment suggested, then do the alignment, and it still pulls to the right? Since I sold the original set I'd be out a couple grand "upgrading" back to this set up.
Do you have 2 different sets of steel rims?

Anyhow, in your wheel size links you can see the aftermarket rims create a positive scrub radius, vs zero scrub on OEM.
"Positive scrub radius (about 9 mm). Scrub radius will be changed by 9 mm, this may affect the car's handling."
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Sep 30, 2016
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Toronto
engineered wrote: If I were you, I'd rotate the tires around. If that didn't help, then I'd take it to a different alignment shop.
I've tried 4 different sets of brand new tires and at least three shops have tried rotating the wheels and tires (x-pattern, forward cross, rearward cross, etc.) before doing the alignment which comes back successful despite the continued pull out on the road. Taking it to an eleventh shop would be insanity (doing same thing expecting different results) which is why I want to try straightening the frame/body before a computerless alignment.
engineered wrote: How badly does it pull? Is it the same on crowned roads as it is on flat? At any speed?
Does it happen when accelerating? Coasting? Braking?
It pulls badly on crowned and flat roads at any speed while accelerating, coasting, or braking without a vice grip on the steering wheel. The 2013 that I drove in Etobicoke to compare wasn't like that, it reminded me of my car pre-accident where I could take my hands off the steering wheel on a crowned or flat road and it would continue going straight with little to no intervention needed. With my car if I take my hands off the steering wheel it immediately turns 20-45 degrees to the right.
Newbie
Sep 30, 2016
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Toronto
engineered wrote: Do you have 2 different sets of steel rims?

Anyhow, in your wheel size links you can see the aftermarket rims create a positive scrub radius, vs zero scrub on OEM.
"Positive scrub radius (about 9 mm). Scrub radius will be changed by 9 mm, this may affect the car's handling."
Yes, I replaced the 45 mm offset steel wheels (https://www.wheel-size.com/calc/?wheel1 ... 0mm&sr=0mm) with 54 mm offset steel wheels (https://www.wheel-size.com/calc/?wheel1 ... 0mm&sr=0mm) as a test ("Scrub Radius: The same"). The fact that the car didn't pull to the right with the pre-accident 45mm offset steel wheels and pulls to the right with the post-accident 54mm offset wheels leads me to believe that the wheels aren't the issue.
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aplusr wrote: I've tried 4 different sets of brand new tires and at least three shops have tried rotating the wheels and tires (x-pattern, forward cross, rearward cross, etc.) before doing the alignment which comes back successful despite the continued pull out on the road. Taking it to an eleventh shop would be insanity (doing same thing expecting different results) which is why I want to try straightening the frame/body before a computerless alignment.


It pulls badly on crowned and flat roads at any speed while accelerating, coasting, or braking without a vice grip on the steering wheel. The 2013 that I drove in Etobicoke to compare wasn't like that, it reminded me of my car pre-accident where I could take my hands off the steering wheel on a crowned or flat road and it would continue going straight with little to no intervention needed. With my car if I take my hands off the steering wheel it immediately turns 20-45 degrees to the right.
Interesting. So it always pulls too the right in all conditions.

Have you checked your brakes for a seized caliper or uneven pad wear? After a long drive, you can also measure the temperature of each brake rotor with an IR sensor to see if they're the same, or touch each wheel near the centre to see if any is warmer than the rest.

Have you checked your tire pressure? Are they set to car specs? Have you tried over inflating by a 5 psi?

Can you post pics of the last few alignment printouts?

Are you about average weight? 150-200lbs? Are the alignment shops doing the work with the proper weights in the drivers seat (assuming you mostly drive alone).
Do you carry extra weight anywhere in the car?
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Newbie
Sep 30, 2016
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Toronto
You remind me of me in terms of problem solving Smiling Face With Open Mouth And Smiling Eyes. A couple of shops told me to try and forget about it, that I could end up spending lots of money hunting for the issue forever, and one guy told me to turn up the radio and relax and try and ignore what's happening with the steering wheel Face With Tears Of Joy. I don't believe this problem is rocket science so I'm dead set on fixing it.
engineered wrote: Interesting. So it always pulls to the right in all conditions.
Yes, that's correct. Around the time of the curb hoping incident a parking lot attendant at one of the Honda dealerships also left the car parked with the steering wheel at full right lock and he may have also jammed the steering wheel against the right limiter with the engine on before turning it off so that may be what the issue is and not the body/frame. I'm taking the dealership to small claims court to cover the cost of parts and labour to install a new steering rack, EPS Motor, steering shaft, steering angle sensor, and steering wheel. We're currently awaiting a settlement conference to see if we can work out an amicable agreement without a trial.
engineered wrote: Have you checked your brakes for a seized caliper or uneven pad wear? After a long drive, you can also measure the temperature of each brake rotor with an IR sensor to see if they're the same, or touch each wheel near the centre to see if any is warmer than the rest.
Yes. In fact I've replaced all but the left caliper (new pads, rotor, right caliper). The brakes were checked by three or more shops.
engineered wrote: Have you checked your tire pressure? Are they set to car specs? Have you tried over inflating by a 5 psi?
Yep. I use a Milwaukee M12 Cordless Compact Inflator which has a digital gauge to set it to the door jamb specs monthly.

I've thought about overinflating the right side but I haven't tried it yet. Do you mean just the front right tire (1) or both right front and rear tires (2)? Would this cause uneven or premature wear if it stops or mitigates the pull and I continue filling them up uneven like this without fixing the underlying issue (e.g., body/frame or steering system).
engineered wrote: Can you post pics of the last few alignment printouts?
- https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EYcsQH ... sp=sharing
- https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rrafjP ... sp=sharing
engineered wrote: Are you about average weight? 150-200lbs? Are the alignment shops doing the work with the proper weights in the drivers seat (assuming you mostly drive alone).
Do you carry extra weight anywhere in the car?
Yep, I'm 165 lbs. As far as I know none of the shops have done the alignment with weights in the drivers seat. But even when I have a passenger in the car the steering wheel pulling to the right still persists. No extra weight in the vehicle.
Last edited by aplusr on Sep 19th, 2021 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Newbie
Sep 30, 2016
17 posts
Toronto
kev604 wrote: How minor was the accident .
Snow was covering the entrance to a gas station hiding a tall curb/median from the roadway. The front passenger tire climbed the tall curb/median and came down with a decent amount of force before I knew what happened :facepalm:

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