Free YouTube documentary: Gamechangers

Just saying... a lot of documentaries are like propaganda. Everything in balance is the way to go.

Layne Norton put out a good video debunking most of the claims made in that movie. FYI all documentaries proclaiming that their diet is best cherry picks the studies they use as proof and misinterpret the results.

https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-game-changers-review-a-scientific-analysis/

I'm a big fan of the McGill Office of Science and Society. They write lots of good articles to separate sense from non-sense and debunk many things.

Here's their take on the documentary (will game changers change your game):
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/healt ... -your-game

They agree much of the evidence in the documentary is flimsy, but.....they write:
"There is good science to be had for promoting a plant-based diet, but this film strays too much into pseudoscience for my appetite. Admittedly, it does make some solid points about the environmental unfriendliness of animal agriculture. Also, if it does convince you to move towards a more plant-based diet, then it will have done some good.


At the same time, there is also lots of bias in "pro-meat" studies, which McGill offers some thoughts on here:
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/healt ... meat-study

Myself, I found Game Changers interesting, and think what Arnold says at the end is something most (and McGill) would agree with. Arnold says: if you preach to people how they should eat, they will say "F U, don't tell me how to ive my life". But if you suggest trying going meatless one day per week, they may try it. And there is evidence that reducing (not necessarilyl eliminating) meat consumption in our very meat heavy western diets, is beneficial.

Enviromental unfriendliness of animal agriculture...that's a whole different discussion IMO.

What about insects? poultry, guinea pigs, frogs, rabbits, farm raised fish [land based farms], ...do these animals have the same level of unfriendliness?

gr8dlr wrote: ↑ Enviromental unfriendliness of animal agriculture...that's a whole different discussion IMO.

What about insects? poultry, guinea pigs, frogs, rabbits, farm raised fish [land based farms], ...do these animals have the same level of unfriendliness?

Exactly... if youre all that worried. Go hunt your own animal & fish. Or raise a few chicks. Just have eggs for protein.

Thanks. That's interesting.

I read the McGill Office of Science and Society's comments and watch 1/2 of the biolayne video. Will watch rest later.

I also searched other critiques of the Gamechangers on youtube as well and will check those out later:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... s+debunked

This? This was eye opening to you? To what exactly?
Propaganda and money making film, nothing else. There are many many others that will open your eyes (to prove how healthy they are) to vegan, IF, keto, meat only etc. diets.

Of course, the suggestion of a Vegan diet brings out the most obtuse individuals. The documentary is filled with a bunch of anecdotes and not scientific, but a whole food plant-based diet is the healthiest way to eat that we know of. The science is clear AND It is also healthier for the planet. Want to keep an erection for longer in your life? Eat plant food. Want to reduce your risk of heart attack and stroke and avoid someone wiping your ass for you someday? Eat plant food.

trane0 wrote: ↑ Layne Norton put out a good video debunking most of the claims made in that movie. FYI all documentaries proclaiming that their diet is best cherry picks the studies they use as proof and misinterpret the results.

https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-game-changers-review-a-scientific-analysis/

Or watch a vegan manhandle two meatheads with facts.

It's an efficient diet, at the very least. You're not going to convince people if they're not already on the fence about animal cruelty. They'll put their personal experience above others' and their and those around them's anecdotes over peer-reviewed studies showing benefits of plant-based diets. The moment it's a pro-meat study, social media and the news goes hard on it. Confirmation of the status quo means so much to people, reassurance is what most people are looking for more than anything.

Moral quandaries are silenced by convenience and reassurance from 'trusted' sources. You'll seldom find people who try to find information themselves. Most people only look to digest the fruits of research without actively participating, which is why and how news sites and outlets capitalize on fear and rigidity, regardless of political persuasion. People barely want to hear things that they themselves don't think. Most people are looking to hear what they want to hear in a deeper voice or from someone in a white jacket.

Most don't care about the fishing industries ties to global plastic pollution, they'll just use re-usable produce bags as the easiest feel-good decision. Most don't care about the environmental detriment, they'll just cancel plastic straws and pat themselves on the back. They'll wrap up any counter-status quo in litigious nitpicking of words like 'milk' or 'sausage' as if they really care. They'll try hard to make it look satanic or against 'the little guy' to anger the uninformed conservatives. They'll make tiny sections of the plant-based industry look 'global warming positive', or like privilege or colonialism to anger the uninformed liberals. They'll drum up BS reports of estrogen from phytoestrogens in soy to rile up men and bodybuilders. They'll misappropriate study findings to make catchy sounding article titles for mommy blogs and the 9-5ers. They'll lobby hard for politicians to make meat, egg and dairy industries an institution. They'll create their own verbage for factory farming to dress up the horrendous conditions of animals and workers. They'll turn to the truckers and try to make this an 'us vs them' issue, and the list goes on. There is no secret organization seeking to keep the status quo, but when people own an industry they will put up a fight when you try to topple it when the current provider obsolesces.

Separating the propagandized claims from any of these documentaries is important, but the facts (once taken at face value, deconstructed, sourced and sorted by bias) point to a future where replicating meat is an endeavor worth our species' time. Any naysayers will likely continue to live the same life they currently do, so there's no point debating with people who are not very future time-oriented. Just hope their kids or grandkids care. Propaganda of any kind is dishonest, but the whole point of a documentary is to present a case. They're glorified editorial video essays, meaning they're subject to bias within any field. But, you take information presented to you and look into it, you can't just emotionally dismiss claims if they don't fit your preconceived notions if you're not well read on the subject beforehand.

moonerhoney wrote: ↑ Of course, the suggestion of a Vegan diet brings out the most obtuse individuals. The documentary is filled with a bunch of anecdotes and not scientific, but a whole food plant-based diet is the healthiest way to eat that we know of. The science is clear AND It is also healthier for the planet. Want to keep an erection for longer in your life? Eat plant food. Want to reduce your risk of heart attack and stroke and avoid someone wiping your ass for you someday? Eat plant food.

I got my blood tested after ~22 years so so vegan. Which the dr remarked "it is as good as he has ever seen, off the charts good". Take a b12 supplement and you are good to go. That does not mean eating fres and drinking coke all the time however lol. That is the only time i have seen a dr since I was 12 other then a minor hand injury after a motorcycle accident.

Healthier without a doubt, and far better for the environment, better for the animals, and especialy for rfders....cheaper!

"Of course, the suggestion of a Vegan diet brings out the most obtuse individuals. "

and usually the same ones, over and over.

And...they conjtinue makng dumb posts. It never stops. Put them on ignore or they willl will respond forever.

moonerhoney wrote: ↑ Of course, the suggestion of a Vegan diet brings out the most obtuse individuals. The documentary is filled with a bunch of anecdotes and not scientific, but a whole food plant-based diet is the healthiest way to eat that we know of. The science is clear AND It is also healthier for the planet. Want to keep an erection for longer in your life? Eat plant food. Want to reduce your risk of heart attack and stroke and avoid someone wiping your ass for you someday? Eat plant food.

If the science is clear, why did the documentary rely on anecdotes and cherry picked studies? Seems like a pretty big goof if the science is clear and yet this "documentary" got it wrong.

BTW Layne Norton fact checked your video too, seems like the science does not agree with anything you claim, as Layne points in out in the original fact check that I posted earlier.

https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-game-changers-debate-james-wilks-vs-chris-kresser-on-the-joe-rogan-experience/

trane0 wrote: ↑ If the science is clear, why did the documentary rely on anecdotes and cherry picked studies? Seems like a pretty big goof if the science is clear and yet this "documentary" got it wrong.

BTW Layne Norton fact checked your video too, seems like the science does not agree with anything you claim, as Layne points in out in the original fact check that I posted earlier.

https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-game-changers-debate-james-wilks-vs-chris-kresser-on-the-joe-rogan-experience/

lol damn... Vegan jokers at it again. I have nothing against vegans. I eat vegan meals. But they shouldnt try to push it like its better than an actual well balanced diet that includes meat.

They usually make the arguement...
vegan diet better than a diet of poutine and 12 oz steaks for breakfast/lunch/dinner everyday.

UrbanPoet wrote: ↑ lol damn... Vegan jokers at it again. I have nothing against vegans. I eat vegan meals. But they shouldnt try to push it like its better than an actual well balanced diet that includes meat.

There are good reasons to eat WFPB as far as nutrition and ethics are concerned. My issue is when claims are made that the diet is healthier or more nutritious than other diets.

trane0 wrote: ↑ There are good reasons to eat WFPB as far as nutrition and ethics are concerned. My issue is when claims are made that the diet is healthier or more nutritious than other diets.

I can see the ethical arguement. I have no doubts on that. Youre “killing” something to eat.
I’m with you in the arguement on whether or not it is healthier or more nutritious.

What if someone ate the perfect vegan definition of a wfpb diet... but had eggs, fish, and lean meats along with it? And not in large quantities. But enough to sustain.

I just see a lot of people trying to compare apples and oranges
Like

Perfect vegan diet

Vs

Breakfast : bacon, sausage, eggs
Lunch : Poutine & cheeseburger
Dinner : 12 oz steak & patotoes with gravy & butter...
Dessert : chocolate covered bacon

Then preach and cry how much better the vegan diet is. Using some sort of flawed logic like that.

If its an ethical thing... yes. For sure you win. Thats your religion or belief system. I have no right to say anything about that.

The issue I have is the arguement that it is the end all and be all of the perfect healthy diet. It is healthier... like healthier than the break/lunch/dinner example i posted above (which i don’t agree with either and sadly some people eat like that). But it isnt the healthiest.

gr8dlr wrote: ↑ Just saying... a lot of documentaries are like propaganda. Everything in balance is the way to go.

Great point. Take a look at who is funding this movie and it may assist to understand what the real messaging is here.

I listened to an interview with Oliver Stone a while back and it was quite eye-opening with respect to the lack of independence in movies. Now, he was coming at it from a slightly different angle but I think "following the money" is always a good way to interpret any information that is being relayed to us. Just look at these talking heads who pretend to tell us the "news". Who signs their cheques? Do you consider them able to report objectively and independently of their funders?

When it comes to diets, people defend their diet like politics or religion. Their way is the only right way and EVERYTHING ELSE IS WRONG! EVERYTHING ELSE WILL KILL YOU!

What ratio of carbs, fats, and proteins is best is very much an individual thing that is tied to your goals and current health situation. Also the whether you eat meat or not is a personal decision too. The best diet is one that is tailormade for you and something you can stick to.

However... there is one common ground with all diets: Cut down significantly sugar and processed foods.

joeyjoejoe wrote: ↑ When it comes to diets, people defend their diet like politics or religion. Their way is the only right way and EVERYTHING ELSE IS WRONG! EVERYTHING ELSE WILL KILL YOU!

What ratio of carbs, fats, and proteins is best is very much an individual thing that is tied to your goals and current health situation. Also the whether you eat meat or not is a personal decision too. The best diet is one that is tailormade for you and something you can stick to.

However... there is one common ground with all diets: Cut down significantly sugar and processed foods.

Your info on nutrition is dated. Animal fats and proteins damage your body, and red meat specifically is a carcinogen. There is nothing personal about science, these are facts. This is the only thing I will defend is to follow the science. The everything in balance approach is a lie. Fibre has become one of the most important factors in modern nutritional science. Meats contain none and most on a western diet don't get enough. Whole food plant-based low fat is scientifically proven superior. I would not tell you how to eat, just what the science says will most likely be the outcome if you don't. Seems like you have accepted this about (refined) sugar and processed foods, but you should look more into meats being just as bad.

https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/z3hl5v

Evolution...if we didn't eat meat, we'd be dumber.

B12 vs taking a B12 vitamin/supplement/fortified foods
==> spectrum of minerals and vitamins is not as wide for vegans. The fact is eliminating something from your diet means you have to be more mindful of adding to the plant based diet to ensure you give your body what it needs/wants/should have.

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FInal reason I/we eat meat...it just tastes good and it makes me happy when I eat it. For me, it's better than anything plant based I can think of. I'm pretty sure if I ask almost any vegan...don't you miss eating ______, they'd say yes. Which is when I'd say why cut it out totally then?
Is there something bad about eating meat (eg fats, "carcinogens?" etc)? -> maybe but then again I'm willing to accept that just like I accept flying has a risk, going out in the sun is a risk, living in a city around cars is a risk, using a microwave is a risk, and so on.

Of course we can all cut back on meat in general like one person @cRaZyRaVr who has "meatless Mondays".