Real Estate

Furnace switch question...rental unit

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  • Jun 28th, 2017 12:31 pm
Sr. Member
Aug 1, 2007
767 posts
83 upvotes

Furnace switch question...rental unit

Hi there.

Here's the scenario...

A rental home with 2 units (upstairs and downstairs). Landlord is having an issue with one of the tenants where they are switching off the furnace via the furnace switch. On extremely hot days, this is causing issues with the other tenant where their unit is getting extremely hot. The tenant who is switching off the furnace switch, will purposely do so and will leave their unit for the weekend, leaving the other tenants without AC. This has been going on for a while now.

The landlord has communicated to the tenant to cease and desist, but they continue to flip the furnace switch off.

The landlord had submitted a request to enter the tenants unit to install a transparent plastic cover with key access only, to prevent the tenant from tampering with the furnace switch...but was denied entry by the tenant who stated that they spoke with lawyers who stated that it was illegal to a install transparent plastic cover with key access only.

To be clear, I'm referring to the furnace switch and not the thermostat (which is located in the other unit).

Questions:

- Is it true that legally the landlord cannot install a transparent plastic cover with key access to the furnace switch?
- Did the tenant have the right to refuse the landlord access to the unit, even though the landlord gave proper 24 hour notice and stated reasons for entering the unit.

I'm not a landlord. I'm asking the questions here to assist a friend who is having a difficult time with one of their tenants.

Any suggestions/recommendations/advice would be appreciated.

Cheers!
31 replies
Sr. Member
User avatar
Nov 28, 2011
888 posts
399 upvotes
Markham
I don't have an answer for you, but tenants like that guy are the reason I'm scared to be a landlord. f*** these people

good luck to your friend
Deal Guru
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
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Edmonton
Really? The tenant is getting legal advice, but the landlord is too cheap to do so?

I suspect the tenant is blowing smoke up someone's skirt. A landlord should be able to enter a unit with notice to do maintenance. The furnace room shouldn't be part of any tenant's personal space, to be frank. The control of the furnace shouldn't be allowed by any one tenant. Since you don't give a province or location, he should investigate the rules for the furnace cut-off switch. And in many situations, 2 suites means having two HVAC systems in order to be legal. Which means the landlord is at risk of getting ratted out.

C
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jan 31, 2006
8541 posts
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Toronto
Weird, in all the house/condo/apartment, where I rented a room , the furnace is always in a room by itself ((it is just slightly bigger than the door size) and never part of any tenants rented room.
Member
May 28, 2017
204 posts
65 upvotes
Probably the issue is that the basement is getting too cold with the AC. The LL should talk about the problems and see if they can be fixed.
Member
Feb 12, 2008
212 posts
191 upvotes
Toronto
It’s my assumption that the house (main floor) captures large amounts of heat due to installation, window age, location or even its age/building code adherence. The tenants upstairs might be very uncomfortable due to heat and lack of natural ventilation hence turning up the AC. Consequently the tenants downstairs are freezing due to large volumes of ac cold air making its way through the registers (as the upstairs tenants try to cool a much larger area).

My suggestion is this, if the basement ceiling is accessible, you can use a HVAC damper. If the ceiling is not accessible you can use a register cover.

Depending on the age of the house it may already have a damper.. Just reach your hand in. Good luck and I really dont think lawyers are needed for this issue, just compromise.
Sr. Member
Aug 1, 2007
767 posts
83 upvotes
@bartium... Unfortunately it's a mixed bag out there. From what I have seen, you have good landlords & bad landlords... good tenants & bad tenants. From my observation, the bad tenants are taking advantage of the good landlords and legislation which gives them all the free legal resources/advice. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for legislation to protect the tenant against the crooked/unresponsive landlords... but it's tough to witness the bad tenants taking advantage of the system.

@CNeufeld... My friend/neighbour is not cheap. They are an old retired couple trying to secure some additional income by providing people / families with a safe roof over their heads. Sadly, all it takes is one bad apple to spoil it for everyone else.

@cgtlky... From what my friend told me, the furnace room is in a secure room by itself. The issue here is that the furnace switch is located in another room of the unit (I know, weird). I've suggested that they should hire a certified electrician to move the furnace switch back into the secured room.

Cheers!
Sr. Member
Aug 1, 2007
767 posts
83 upvotes
@fogetmylogin... Sadly it appears that my friend is dealing with a tenant from hell. I'll save the examples for another time. As for communication and respect, that went out the door. Tenant won't respond to phone, voicemail, email, mail...legal notices is the only way that they will keep the line of communication open. Even that from what I've seen is a challenge.

Believe me, if my friend was being an @sshole, I would let them know.

Cheers!
Deal Guru
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
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Edmonton
So why hasn't your friend moved the switch like you suggested? That seems like the easy solution...

C
Sr. Member
Aug 1, 2007
767 posts
83 upvotes
@CNeufeld... I made that suggestion to them this morning. They are currently calling for an electrician to setup an appointment + the logistics around gaining access to the unit.
Deal Guru
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Mar 23, 2008
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radar2000 wrote: @CNeufeld... I made that suggestion to them this morning. They are currently calling for an electrician to setup an appointment + the logistics around gaining access to the unit.
Again, you haven't said where the unit is located. But they should be able to get in with the appropriate notice. They're doing maintenance/repairs on the unit. Heck, they can even leave the old switch there for the tenant to turn on and off to their heart's content, and just work in the furnace room...

For example, in Ontario:
Entry with notice

27 (1) A landlord may enter a rental unit in accordance with written notice given to the tenant at least 24 hours before the time of entry under the following circumstances:

1. To carry out a repair or replacement or do work in the rental unit.
Can the furnace location be entered without going through the problem tenant's personal space (i.e. common area only)? If so, they wouldn't need to provide any notice, I would think.

If your neighbors want access to the unit for doing the repairs, they should keep in mind they're not "requesting" access. They're providing written notice of access. As in, "We'll be in the unit on July 4, 2017 from 8 am to 2 pm." Not "If it's all right with you, we'd like to come into the unit on July 4, 2017 from 8 am to 2 pm".

And the local landlord-tenant board is the source of truth for issues like this. Most of them have toll-free numbers to call, email addresses, etc. So they can get guidance on issues like this without the tenant being able to blow smoke up their skirts. They should become familiar with the tenant law in their area for their own sake.

C
Sr. Member
Aug 1, 2007
767 posts
83 upvotes
@CNeufeld... Thanks for the great advice and examples! I'll share this with them.

I've tried to tell them that they should be a bit more assertive like you mentioned above. Assertive...not rude. As long as they are following the letter of the law, they should be good.

...Oh and they can only access the furnace from that unit only. There is no common access point.

Cheers!
Last edited by radar2000 on Jun 26th, 2017 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Addict
Mar 30, 2017
1226 posts
980 upvotes
GVA
just throwing out ideas here, not sure if it works for your situation,
1, ask the other suffering tenants to file a complain to tenancy broad so you have some ground if there is a fight,
2, ask the other suffering tenants to request for repair, hence giving you ground to file a 24 hour notice to enter the unit. the repair is to remove the switch so it is always on. it is a valid repair imo.
.
Deal Guru
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Mar 23, 2008
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Edmonton
BTW... Your neighbors should make sure to collect documentation on the issues this tenant is causing. By deliberately turning off the HVAC to the upstairs tenant's unit, they are interfering with that tenant's right to enjoy the property. In Ontario, that would be grounds for an N5 form:
http://www.sjto.gov.on.ca/documents/ltb ... ons/N5.pdf

Basically, two of those in a 6 month period allows the landlord to request the tenant's eviction. But if they don't follow the proper steps, they can't evict.

C
Sr. Member
Aug 1, 2007
767 posts
83 upvotes
@seatiger... Thanks for the suggestion.

@CNeufeld... That's exactly what I have been advising them to do.

Cheers!
Deal Guru
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Mar 23, 2008
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Edmonton
Seatiger's comments may be dangerous, depending on the relationship with the "good" tenant. That's tenant's beef isn't with the downstairs tenant. That tenant's beef is with the landlord, for not controlling the situation. So the "good" tenant could file for a rent abatement if they chose to, as they have been unable to use the AC that was supposed to be part of the property they rented. I think they should keep the other tenant out of it, aside from perhaps requesting an e-mail notification if the "bad" tenant does it again.

After all, it's the "Landlord Tenant Board", not "Tenant Tenant Board"...

And they don't need to have any request for "repairs". They are entitled to enter the unit to do "work". It's non-specific.

Again, this is based on the Ontario RTA. YMMV.

C
Deal Fanatic
Nov 24, 2013
6479 posts
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Kingston, ON
The whole idea of a furnace switch is that it's accessible in event of an emergency (fire, etc.). Covering it up with a keyed cover is likely off the table, as is relocating it outside of the basement, depending on how the code is actually written.

The 'basement cold / upstairs warm' issue has to be addressed for a true lasting solution. Without separate HVAC systems or better insulation / windows / curtains installed upstairs, you can get some big temperature differentials.
Deal Guru
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Sep 8, 2007
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Way Out of GTA
Mike15 wrote: The whole idea of a furnace switch is that it's accessible in event of an emergency (fire, etc.). Covering it up with a keyed cover is likely off the table, as is relocating it outside of the basement, depending on how the code is actually written.

The 'basement cold / upstairs warm' issue has to be addressed for a true lasting solution. Without separate HVAC systems or better insulation / windows / curtains installed upstairs, you can get some big temperature differentials.
Correct there is specific code rules as to the accessibility and location of the furnace switch even so much as to regulate the location of the switch needs to be facing the stairs in an unfinished basement situation....it my case it wasn't good enough to have the switch...besides the furnace....you know the first place you'd probably look. So a sealed keyed box isn't likely to be anywhere near code.

In a converted duplex situation I could always see these types of situations arising between the upstairs tenant who controls the thermostat and the basement that does not. In the winter of course the basement could supplement the heat with baseboard heaters to dial in a temperature to their liking. In the summer if they AC is blasting all day...closing and taping the registers in the basement is a way of equalizing the cold air.

This could be a landlord caught in the middle of an issue between the upstairs blasting it and bsmt getting too cold and now it's escalated. Retrofitting separate HVAC in an older home might be quite cost prohibitive and many not be feasible...if this is the case put a for sale sign up and move on. With the way the RTA is in Ontario it just isn't worth the headache. Plus if you get to cash out in what is still a pretty high priced market...bonus.
Deal Fanatic
Jul 3, 2011
6517 posts
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Thornhill
Arrange to have the switch moved and locked. That is your right.

If you're in Ontario, you are responsible to ensure that all of your tenants have quiet enjoyment of their unit from you and from all other tenants.

This tenant seems to be interfering with the quiet enjoyment of the others which they are not allowed to do

You should contact the Landlord Tribunal to find out the proper course/form of notice for advising these tenants they are interfering with the other tenants in the strongest terms possible, including the legal 24 hour notice to to them that you will enter and move the switch and secure it.

They cannot deny you the right to enter upon proper notice and if anyone pipes in on this thread and tells you otherwise - ignore them!

These tenants are probably reading and believing some of the nonsense permeating the interwebs about tenancies.

This is one of the rare instances in which you, as the landlord, hold the cards.
Deal Addict
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Mar 23, 2003
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Hamilton
licenced wrote: Arrange to have the switch moved and locked. That is your right.

If you're in Ontario, you are responsible to ensure that all of your tenants have quiet enjoyment of their unit from you and from all other tenants.

This tenant seems to be interfering with the quiet enjoyment of the others which they are not allowed to do

You should contact the Landlord Tribunal to find out the proper course/form of notice for advising these tenants they are interfering with the other tenants in the strongest terms possible, including the legal 24 hour notice to to them that you will enter and move the switch and secure it.

They cannot deny you the right to enter upon proper notice and if anyone pipes in on this thread and tells you otherwise - ignore them!

These tenants are probably reading and believing some of the nonsense permeating the interwebs about tenancies.

This is one of the rare instances in which you, as the landlord, hold the cards.
No locking.
Has to be moved between entrance and furnace. If the panel box comes before the furnace you can eliminate the switch all together. Label the proper breaker to the furnace and that will become the emergency shut off switch. This needs to be done by an electrician that is licenced and pulls a permit / inspection.

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