Personal Finance

Gas bill - WHOA

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Deal Addict
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Jul 13, 2014
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StatsGuy wrote: regardless who's in power ...there's nothing they can do to influence price in any meaningful way.
Lol. Cute.

Canada itself has more than enough resources going to waste or being mismanaged thanks to garbage leaders.

The government is bigger than just the borders of Canada. I'll leave it at that.
This message has not been approved by The Office of The Mayor of Toronto.
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Dec 20, 2018
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MayorOfToronto wrote: Lol. Cute.

Canada itself has more than enough resources going to waste or being mismanaged thanks to garbage leaders.
What does this have to do with global price of a traded commodity?
MayorOfToronto wrote: The government is bigger than just the borders of Canada. I'll leave it at that.
So global governments (or do you mean just Canadian?) Are conspiring to control/increase prices? You mean like OPEC?
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StatsGuy wrote: What does this have to do with global price of a traded commodity?



So global governments (or do you mean just Canadian?) Are conspiring to control/increase prices? You mean like OPEC?
Would we mitigate the price increases if we pumped more supply though?

Also, some of the OPEC countries have dirt cheap oil/gas for their own citizens via subsidies from profits. We probably won't get that here, ever. But then again, we're not a powder-keg that's threatening to explode due to inflationary pressure.
Member
Mar 7, 2011
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Moronto
StatsGuy wrote: What does this have to do with global price of a traded commodity?



So global governments (or do you mean just Canadian?) Are conspiring to control/increase prices? You mean like OPEC?
Compare Norway's SWF to Canada's SWF......
Deal Fanatic
Dec 20, 2018
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ob2011 wrote: Compare Norway's SWF to Canada's SWF......
western canada didn't want nationalized energy

read up on NEP

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Energy_Program

In the 1984 election, the Progressive Conservative Party of Brian Mulroney was elected to a majority in the House of Commons with the support of Western Canada after he had campaigned against the NEP. However, Mulroney did not eliminate the last vestiges of the program until two-and-a half years later, when world oil prices had dropped below pre-1980s levels (as adjusted for inflation: see Long-Term Oil Prices, 1861–2007).

On June 1, 1985, after extensive discussions between the federal Government and the governments of the oil-producing provinces, the "Western Accord on Energy" was agreed.[dead link][46] It provided for the full deregulation of oil prices and for allowing the market forces of international and local supply and demand determine prices.[46] Included in the full deregulation of domestic oil prices, the Western Accord also "abolished import subsidies, the export tax on crude and oil products, and the petroleum compensation charge. It also phased out PIP grants and the PGRT. In addition, controls were lifted on oil exports."[47]: 12–15 [12]
and good luck getting people here to not riot if we adopted Norweigan's higher taxes here

https://www.oecd.org/tax/tax-policy/tax ... norway.pdf
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New Economic Policy (NEP), the economic policy of the government of the Soviet Union from 1921 to 1928, representing a temporary retreat from its previous policy of extreme centralization and doctrinaire socialism.

Jack Layton?

Image
Member
Mar 7, 2011
254 posts
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Moronto
StatsGuy wrote: western canada didn't want nationalized energy

read up on NEP

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Energy_Program



and good luck getting people here to not riot if we adopted Norweigan's higher taxes here

https://www.oecd.org/tax/tax-policy/tax ... norway.pdf
............................whatever.

United we stand and possibly prosper. Divided we stand and probably suffer.
I'll just continue using Norway as an example. It's almost the same for a number of other countries.
In Norway, it's Norway's oil and gas. In Canada, it's the Western province's oil and gas.
Oh well, it could be worse.
Not looking forward to seeing my Enbridge bill arriving this week.
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Mar 10, 2018
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does it matter?
garythemallcop wrote: Just got my Jan gas bill. WHOAAAA did that ever go up. Compared to last Jan, I used less gas and it cost me about 125 bucks more. Nothing we can do, just wanted to vent and see how it's impacting everyone else.

The fact that I had to pay 43 dollars in HST is just further insult to injury. GAH!
How much was our carbon tab compared to HST? Mine is much more than HST. I hope we are getting this money back with climate action incentive payment.
Tried new coffee and doughnut. Found same old stale thing. expected bill of six bucks but it was 600 million. Big mistake so the guy said don't worry it is on the house. going back to McD.
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callernamet wrote: How much was our carbon tab compared to HST? Mine is much more than HST. I hope we are getting this money back with climate action incentive payment.
Don't worry bros, Trudeau and Freeland have got this! I'm sure they made calculations to make sure we average guys net out to 0...If they didn't, wouldn't our country have voted this down as we no longer have any money?
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Dec 11, 2013
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Toronto
I legit just run prime95 on my main system from 7pm to 7am now.
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Jul 11, 2009
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Calgary
I wonder how happy the people that need to visit foodbanks are about paying carbon taxes to keep warm- but they keep voting for the status quo.

Too bad 2 provinces dictate tax policy for the rest of Canada.

Nat gas prices recently dropped further than the increased in carbon tax - so much for using that tax as a disincentive for consumption of fossil fuels.
no sig
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ben35 wrote: I wonder how happy the people that need to visit foodbanks are about paying carbon taxes to keep warm- but they keep voting for the status quo.

Too bad 2 provinces dictate tax policy for the rest of Canada.

Nat gas prices recently dropped further than the increased in carbon tax - so much for using that tax as a disincentive for consumption of fossil fuels.
You will never understand the dopamine hit joy of virtue signaling. It feels like you're a hero for accomplishing so much, yet doing absolutely nothing. Kinda like porn || doing coke, not that I have any experience with one && the other.

Nov 2021:
Canada’s emissions record worst in the G7, federal Environment Commissioner says:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politic ... emissions/

Quick dopamine hits without doing any work at all is how we roll nowadays. That's why social media is so popular, no substance required, just like our politicians =D. They are perfect reflections of our people. I mean, anyone who understands high school mathematics, basic undergrad economics, philosophy, and history could have seen this coming lol. Math seems to be a hard sell in North America. Forget philosophy and history, that requires like reading n' shit...Ain't no one got time for that!
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Mar 10, 2014
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Received my enbridge bill for the last 30+ days. This is the biggest bill I have ever received and I only used approx. 250 cubic meters. And I have set my house temp to 19.5 degrees. Once the cold temps hit in the next month, I am sure it will go even higher. 45%+ hike in the bill compared to same time last year. Use less, pay more. Lovely.
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jmc111 wrote: Received my enbridge bill for the last 30+ days. This is the biggest bill I have ever received and I only used approx. 250 cubic meters. And I have set my house temp to 19.5 degrees. Once the cold temps hit in the next month, I am sure it will go even higher. 45%+ hike in the bill compared to same time last year. Use less, pay more. Lovely.
I heard Toronto is having a record warm winter. Polar vortex going to land soon. That's probably going to hit our Westerners badly, all the way to North Ontario. When it rains, it pours.
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Mar 28, 2008
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FarmerHarv wrote: Ok, that's just cool, I had no idea my Ecobee had that sort of info until I went looking after reading your post. Here's our Jan 13 graph (on an iPad), interesting to see how the furnace cycles.

Image

House is 7 years old now, 5000sqft finished (2500 basement), good insulation (I assume) and according to Ecobee we're in the top 32% for Energy Efficiency. If they weren't so expensive I'd get an Ecobee for the garage and shop also just to see how horrible they are at holding heat. Hmmm, maybe better not knowing.
For -10c weather, seems like the furnace is running more than it should be, have you fine tune the temperature delta to make the furnace won't kick on until hitting 1.5c difference (Compare to your set point)? If you have a 2 stage furnace, you should use your Ecobee to control the 2nd stage so you may save a bit.
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ADenariusSaved wrote: I heard Toronto is having a record warm winter. Polar vortex going to land soon. That's probably going to hit our Westerners badly, all the way to North Ontario. When it rains, it pours.
I expected this to happen and was prepared. Until you get the actual bill to see the cost, you don't really know. It is what it is.
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jmc111 wrote: I expected this to happen and was prepared. Until you get the actual bill to see the cost, you don't really know. It is what it is.
True. I find that things just get worse beyond our worst case scenario expectations these days. It just seems like the solution for success in life is just to be born earlier...I strongly believe this is all related to the Flynn Effect going out the window in the West. I mean, how else do you vote to tax yourself into oblivion, for no reason, and to cripple fossil fuels, and then end up complaining about the costs. Then doing this 3 times. Once shit actually hits the fan like a pandemic and a war, then we had no prep. I figured people thought the ambitious immigration targets would help GDP, but they forgot to look at GDP per capita (for which we will have the worst performance over the next decades.) Especially importing 800k in a year during a housing crisis. All of this is mind boggling to me...

I don't think people realize that fossil fuels are used to produce our food and like...move shit in the economy, including our asses to our jobs. And crippling the resource sector, one of our biggest sources of GDP, doesn't seem bright at all if people wanted more GDP/capital - did people forget they had to pay rent, eat, and warm their houses? Oh well...We'll be ok, others...yeah...If anything, at least we learned that virtue signaling has a price, would have been nice to have a warning shot than ruining people outright. But the universe of causality doesn't care about compassion, it's just cause --> logical conclusion. Nature is brutal. We don't have it so bad though...

Anyway I'm not slamming all Trudeau voters, there are perfectly good reasons to vote for him and it's individually interest-based. But I think a vast majority who did, did not understand the costs, and did not have the capability of bearing those costs. I've recommended people vote for him based on their interests (immigration laxity, gov workers). My wealthy friends who voted for him will be fine, and appreciated the huge boost in their home value. Some are also 6-figure Federal workers, so they had no choice. But they could afford it (or it served their interests), and they knew what they were voting for. I noticed that the richer people care more about the environment and don't mind being taxed for it, poorer people, while they might have environmental ideals, they likely can't afford the policy blowback. So now you'll just have a lot of discontent, and there's not much that can be done about it...The effect of these economic policies will be felt for decades.

Pertinent data below over the next decades GDP/capital forecasts.
OECD predicts Canada will be the worst performing advanced economy over the next decade…and the three decades after that
https://bcbc.com/insights-and-opinions/ ... after-that
The political class appears to have lost interest in efforts to raise workers’ productivity and real wage growth through higher business investment per worker, faster innovation adoption, and getting the average company to operate at scale.
Past generations of young Canadians entering the workforce could look forward to favourable tailwinds lifting real incomes over their working lives. That’s no longer the case. If the OECD’s long-range projections prove correct, young people entering the workforce today will not feel much of a tailwind at all. Rather, they face a long period of stagnating average real incomes that will last most of their working lives. On average, Canadian living standards and our quality of life relative to other countries are set to decline as other countries make their economies more productive.
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These are nice charts. GDP = productivity = standard of living. We're F'ed. So rising costs of goods and stagnant salaries make sense, we're becoming poorer. But it's hard to see with a nominal currency value, and I think this was done on purpose, because it takes a bit more intelligence to understand economics and inflation, math and all...

2020-2030
Image

2030-2060
Image
Last edited by ADenariusSaved on Jan 24th, 2023 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Addict
Mar 10, 2014
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ADenariusSaved wrote: True. I find that things just get worse beyond our worst case scenario expectations these days. It just seems like the solution for success in life is just to be born earlier...I strongly believe this is all related to the Flynn Effect going out the window in the West. I mean, how else do you vote to tax yourself into oblivion, for no reason, and to cripple fossil fuels, and then end up complaining about the costs. Then doing this 3 times. Once shit actually hits the fan like a pandemic and a war, then we had no prep. I figured people thought the ambitious immigration targets would help GDP, but they forgot to look at GDP per capita (for which we will have the worst performance over the next decades.) Especially importing 800k in a year during a housing crisis. All of this is mind boggling to me...

I don't think people realize that fossil fuels are used to produce our food and like...move shit in the economy, including our asses to our jobs. And crippling the resource sector, one of our biggest sources of GDP, doesn't seem bright at all if people wanted more GDP/capital - did people forget they had to pay rent, eat, and warm their houses? Oh well...We'll be ok, others...yeah...If anything, at least we learned that virtue signaling has a price, would have been nice to have a warning shot than ruining people outright. But the universe of causality doesn't care about compassion, it's just cause --> logical conclusion. Nature is brutal. We don't have it so bad though...

Anyway I'm not slamming all Trudeau voters, there are perfectly good reasons to vote for him and it's individually interest-based. But I think a vast majority who did, did not understand the costs, and did not have the capability of bearing those costs. I've recommended people vote for him based on their interests (immigration laxity, gov workers). My wealthy friends who voted for him will be fine, and appreciated the huge boost in their home value. Some are also 6-figure Federal workers, so they had no choice. But they could afford it (or it served their interests), and they knew what they were voting for. I noticed that the richer people care more about the environment and don't mind being taxed for it, poorer people, while they might have environmental ideals, they likely can't afford the policy blowback. So now you'll just have a lot of discontent, and there's not much that can be done about it...The effect of these economic policies will be felt for decades.

Pertinent data below over the next decades GDP/capital forecasts.
OECD predicts Canada will be the worst performing advanced economy over the next decade…and the three decades after that
https://bcbc.com/insights-and-opinions/ ... after-that
Yeah. God help the younger generation.
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brunes wrote: You thought wrong. Electric heat pumps are the most efficient form of heating that exists. Air-based is not as efficient as ground-loop, but ground-loop costs more to install than it is usually worth.
They are more efficient except in the coldest of climates (like Winnipeg...). That said, their extra cost, how long is the break-even point? From what I understand, by the the of the break-even point, you need a new unit.
Why can't we all just get along?

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