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Gas range to range hood clearance

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  • Oct 30th, 2020 11:12 pm
[OP]
Newbie
Jun 24, 2009
26 posts

Gas range to range hood clearance

A gas mechanic is giving me a hard time with my new gas range installation. I've not had him or anyone else in yet, to install the new gas range, but over the phone, when trying to provide information about what I have, and the clearances, I'm getting a hard time...
The clearance between the top of the burning element and the bottom of the cabinets that are beside the range, is 18" sharp. So that appears to meet the building code. I had to remove the skirting under the cabinets to get to that 18" clearance, because with the skirts it was a couple of inches too low. There aren't any under the cabine light, so that wasn't a problem. The cabinet and counter actually looks better with those silly skirts removed anyway.
Next problem, and this is the skicky point. The clearance above the gas range. The way I'm interpreting the Ontario building code is that a combustible cabinet must be situated 30" above the range or higher, but can be as low as 24" if it is protected by a protective board (gipsum?) or whatnot - or - a metal range hood that stick out 125mm in front of that cabinet.
So, I didn't feel comfortable with that, and I discovered that the existing hood is too weak, so I ripped out the hood and also ripped out the cabinet above the range. I've installed nice not-combustible marble tiling going to the ceiling, and installed a metal range hood above the range, as high as I could get it. The exhaust out of the house is on the wall, and I've tried to get the wall mounted metal range hood to go as high as possible.
The clearance between the top of the burning elements and the bottom of the new hood is 27 inches. So that's well above the 24 inches, where there is talks about a hood protecting a cabinet, as discussed in the code.
But in my case there is no longer a cabinet.
So my question is, is it ok for the hood to be 27" above the range? The manual of the hood says 600 to 700 mm. So that's withing that range. The range's manual, however, says 30". But that's just a product, and the code is clear about inches, and doesn't say to refer to manuals or manufacturer instructions.
The gas mechanic say 30" in any case. I'm not buying it. I think the code says the minimum legal limit is 24", 30" for cabinets. What am I missing here?
The reason why I find the mechanic shady and fuzzy, is that he's telling me that so long as there are plastic parts inside the hood, it's combustible, and nothing combustible is to be below 30" period.
If that is true then countless of houses are not meeting code. I know a person that has a new range installed a few months ago, that has a cabinet above the range at about 30" above the range, but with a very tall range hood that is very thick, making the clearance only 22" !!! So, why would that under-the-cabinet hood be to code, and my non-cabinet wall mount one at 27" not be to code?
I'm very frustrated at this point and I don't know what to think... Is this mechanic a shady person that is looking for work? Is he working together with someone to create work that technically isn't necessary?
Also, the new hood has well above the required CFM, no issues there.
That person I know that had their range installation approved and installed (22" clearance to hood), that range has 6 burners, and is a much fancier one. I anticipate someone saying that the manufacturer's claim of clearance, is what the mechanic will go by, but there is no way, in my mind, that that manufacturer would say that 22" is ok, while mine says 30". It seems to me that what the manufacturer says, is adhered to by some mechanics and not others, and that ultimately it is the codes that determines what's really allowed.
I would love some opinions about this! It really sucks right now. All this effort to renovate the kitchen, and now I'm stuck with this new range ready to go in, but can't proceed.
23 replies
[OP]
Newbie
Jun 24, 2009
26 posts
GTArenovate wrote: Find another person to install it.

It is within code to install the range hood provided that it extends beyond the cabinets above by 125mm. In your case, there are no cabinets above.

http://www.buildingcode.online/1553.html
I found that exact same page, and that's what I've been going by! The excuse the guy gave me is that he's not going by the building code, but by TSSA code. So, why would someone else's under-the-cabinet range that is sitting below 30", protecting a cabinet that is below 30", be ok, and my hood at 27" that has no cabinets at all, not be ok? The guy stopped responding to my emails when I pointed this out. He talked about "are you sure that there are no combustible materials inside that hood... there is no talk like that in any of the codes! "Combustible materials *inside* the hood"? What the heck? When the code refers to combustibles, it is referring to the cabinets... And a cabinet below 30" can be protected with shielding of sorts, and also by a metal hood that sticks out 125mm in front of the cabinet like you pointed out. In my case, there is no cabinet above the hood at all, so it should meet the code easily I would think!
But I foresee another risk.... "What does the manual of the range say"... So, it says 30". Really though, can I be dinged on that now? The range doesn't equal code. The code specifies the clearances. So what's up with all that...?
Deal Addict
Dec 19, 2009
3849 posts
1850 upvotes
OBC 9.10.22.2. Vertical Clearances above Cooktops doesn't apply to you now because you have no cabinets above the stove. You have to go by the owners manual of the stove/rangehood whichever is more or TSSA for the clearance which both state 30".
123Mike wrote: The range's manual, however, says 30". But that's just a product, and the code is clear about inches, and doesn't say to refer to manuals or manufacturer instructions.
CSA B149.1-10 (Natural gas and propane installation code)

4.1.3
An appliance, accessory, component, equipment, or any other item shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s certified instructions and this Code.

4.1.4
Where a conflict exists between the manufacturer’s certified installation instructions and this Code, the requirements of this Code shall prevail unless otherwise approved.
[OP]
Newbie
Jun 24, 2009
26 posts
pootza wrote: OBC 9.10.22.2. Vertical Clearances above Cooktops doesn't apply to you now because you have no cabinets above the stove. You have to go by the owners manual of the stove/rangehood whichever is more or TSSA for the clearance which both state 30".
So does that mean that people that have a cabinet above the range, get to enjoy an exception allowing them to have a lower range, but people that do not have a cabinet above the range, are forced to install higher? That seems stupid, unfair, satety wise, unfair, pita wise. Clearly, the regulations are not well thought out.
Deal Addict
Dec 19, 2009
3849 posts
1850 upvotes
123Mike wrote: So does that mean that people that have a cabinet above the range, get to enjoy an exception allowing them to have a lower range, but people that do not have a cabinet above the range, are forced to install higher? That seems stupid, unfair, satety wise, unfair, pita wise. Clearly, the regulations are not well thought out.
Being a gas fitter I would install the range hood at 30" as per "the gas code" as I believe TSSA are the "authority having jurisdiction" in the province of Ontario. Because there is confusion in the interpretation of this OBC regulation, I would contact TSSA and have them confirm that the exemption from the OBC is allowable or I would contact the Municipal Building Inspector and have them give their interpretation in writing.
Don't stick your neck out, let the person who has jurisdiction in the area make the call as your insurance company may not see it the same way if a problem arises.
There is lots of things in life that seem to be stupid and unfair ... you either live with it or do something about it.
[OP]
Newbie
Jun 24, 2009
26 posts
pootza wrote: Being a gas fitter I would install the range hood at 30" as per "the gas code" as I believe TSSA are the "authority having jurisdiction" in the province of Ontario. Because there is confusion in the interpretation of this OBC regulation, I would contact TSSA and have them confirm that the exemption from the OBC is allowable or I would contact the Municipal Building Inspector and have them give their interpretation in writing.
Don't stick your neck out, let the person who has jurisdiction in the area make the call as your insurance company may not see it the same way if a problem arises.
There is lots of things in life that seem to be stupid and unfair ... you either live with it or do something about it.
The system is stupid. Clearly, the safety regulations are far stricter if you don't have a cabinet above the range. Without a cabinet above the range, the hood must be at 30" period, no exceptions. Even trying to suggest it should be allowed to be lowered to 24", will get any gas mechanic up in arms, because they have no choice but to air on the safe side. Not safe as in, it's better for the customer, but purely safer for themselves, so that noone can come after them.
But it gets even stupider! Get this: the building code says that a combustible cabinet can be lowered to 24" so long as it is protected, one of which methods is a metal hood. I know someone with an 8" high under the cabinet hood. They got a range installed a few months ago. I dropped by and measured it myself. Their cabinet is sitting at about 29" and the hood is 8" tall. The clearance to the gas range is 21" I kid you not! A gas mechanic signed off on it. And they don't have to worry about anyone coming after him, because they abided by the rules. The rules say, cabinet can go down to 24" lowest. So... 24" minus 8 tall hood = 16". You can *actually* have a legal clearance of only 18" with that hood!
So 18" a gas mechanic is fine with. Some PANS wouldn't even fit under there just about for crying out loud! So, I was siding on the safer side, and didn't like how low the under the cabinet hood was, so I ripped it out and put in a wall mount chimney based one. I did my utmost best to get the best darn height I could get out of it. 27" it's at. Wauw, I'm doing so much than my friends who only have a 21" clearance! Plus they have a cabine above the range and I don't!. Should be good right? But oh no. The rules are all different for me, because I'm not protecting a cabinet, therefore, the hood rules change. It now magically becomes 30".... What the???
Gas mechanics don't want to even cater to discussing how absurd and broken the rules are, how the gas code people and building code people simply do not know what the heck they're doing! Everyone is just protecting themselves, and noone cares. I think I *will* contact the regulating people! There is this huge hole, this huge bug in the system.
In the meantime, I have no choice but to raise the exhaust hole. I have to sit there and knock out some of the marble tiles, and saw into my house. I'll cover it with metal plating, match the siding, patch, paste, cover, caulk, etc. All because the rules are broken and stupid.
Last edited by 123Mike on Apr 21st, 2019 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Addict
Dec 19, 2009
3849 posts
1850 upvotes
123Mike wrote: The system is stupid .....
Just talk to your insurance company as they will be the ones who will either pay out or not pay out on your claim.
Deal Addict
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Aug 12, 2007
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Waterloo
123Mike wrote: The system is stupid. Clearly, the safety regulations are far stricter if you don't have a cabinet above the range. With a cabinet it's 30" period, no exceptions. Even trying to suggest it should be allowed to be lowered to 24", will get any gas mechanic up in arms, because they have no choice but to air on the safe side. Not safe as in, it's better for the customer, but purely safer for themselves, so that noone can come after them.
But it gets even stupider! Get this: the building code says that a combustible cabinet can be lowered to 24" so long as it is protected, one of which methods is a metal hood. I know someone with an 8" high under the cabinet hood. They got a range installed a few months ago. I dropped by and measured it myself. Their cabinet is sitting at about 29" and the hood is 8" tall. The clearance to the gas range is 21" I kid you not! A gas mechanic signed off on it. And they don't have to worry about anyone coming after him, because they abided by the rules. The rules say, cabinet can go down to 24" lowest. So... 24" minus 8 tall hood = 16". You can *actually* have a legal clearance of only 18" with that hood!
So 18" a gas mechanic is fine with. Some PANS wouldn't even fit under there just about for crying out loud! So, I was siding on the safer side, and didn't like how low the under the cabinet hood was, so I ripped it out and put in a wall mount chimney based one. I did my utmost best to get the best darn height I could get out of it. 27" it's at. Wauw, I'm doing so much than my friends who only have a 21" clearance! Plus they have a cabine above the range and I don't!. Should be good right? But oh no. The rules are all different for me, because I'm not protecting a cabinet, therefore, the hood rules change. It now magically becomes 30".... What the???
Gas mechanics don't want to even cater to discussing how absurd and broken the rules are, how the gas code people and building code people simply do not know what the heck they're doing! Everyone is just protecting themselves, and noone cares. I think I *will* contact the regulating people! There is this huge hole, this huge bug in the system.
In the meantime, I have no choice but to raise the exhaust hole. I have to sit there and knock out some of the marble tiles, and saw into my house. I'll cover it with metal plating, match the siding, patch, paste, cover, caulk, etc. All because the rules are broken and stupid.
remove the Hood for the day the fitter is there. Install it after he is gone.

Many professions ( of College of trade or those that are Licensed. ) emphasize codes because that's whats protecting the exclusivity in their trade. Reason and Logic be damned. Some times they have no idea what the reason behind the code is.
----
Pay it forward.
Deal Fanatic
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Oct 19, 2008
6531 posts
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GTA
Building code written for electric ranges mostly with the understanding gas code, municipal codes and manufacturers specs can increase that minimum?
[OP]
Newbie
Jun 24, 2009
26 posts
pootza wrote: CSA B149.1-10 (Natural gas and propane installation code)

4.1.3
An appliance, accessory, component, equipment, or any other item shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s certified instructions and this Code.

4.1.4
Where a conflict exists between the manufacturer’s certified installation instructions and this Code, the requirements of this Code shall prevail unless otherwise approved.
Before 2010, 4.1.4 stated:
"4.1.4 Where a conflict exists between the manufacturer’s certified installation instructions and this Code, the most stringent of the two shall prevail unless otherwise approved. This does not apply to clauses of this Code that permit a less stringent requirement."
This changed in 2010 to:
"4.1.4 Where a conflict exists between the manufacturer’s certified installation instructions and this Code, the most stringent of the two shall prevail."
You're stating:
"Where a conflict exists between the manufacturer’s certified installation instructions and this Code, the requirements of this Code shall prevail unless otherwise approved."

If yours is indeed the up to date one, I wonder if there is any loop hole to be found.
The people with under the cabinet hoods get to get away with a major loop hole, making their far less safe than mine. They can get away with having their cabinet situated at 24" when protected by a meal hood. If that metal hood is 8" tall for instance, they'd only have a clearance of 16" above their gas range. That's absurdly low, I agree, and you can barely fit some of the larger pans under that even. Yet they get to get away with it! I've seen a recent install where the clearance to an under the cabinet mounted hood was only 21"! The installer had no qualms with that at all!
So here I am without a cabinet above the range, which is far safer, and the hood sitting 27" above the range, also far safer!
The code is just dumb beyond comprehension. Up to the manufacturer to just state what they want, and the code referring to that? The manufacturers just go "30 inches" across the board. "just in case". "lawsuit proof". But those same manufacturers happily pump out under the cabinet hoods at the same time! The system is broken. The TSSA/CSA/building code people aren't paying proper attention. This is slipping right by them. They feel they must tolerate the lower under the cabinet hoods because otherwise every other house ends up being not to code, or above the range cabinets becomes practically impossible, but at the same time, people that ripped that cabinet in an attempt to improve things, like I did, are SOL when it's not *quite* 30"... A wall mounted metal range hood should be allowed at 24" period. But it's 30", just because without any actual reasoning applied.
So is there no loophole? Is there any "conflict" that could be found that can be leveraged?
Someone here suggested to remove the hood, which technically is legal. Have the gas mechanic install the range, and then the moment he walks out the door, remount the hood.
But... insurance companies might use that to abuse their position and use it as an excuse to not pay out a claim, should something happen - even if it's not really actually proven it is because of that "low" hood. The adjusted is just there to try to get out of things.
This is all so very stupid...
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Oct 19, 2008
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123Mike wrote: The exhaust out of the house is on the wall, and I've tried to get the wall mounted metal range hood to go as high as possible.
The clearance between the top of the burning elements and the bottom of the new hood is 27 inches.
You have oriented the fan so it exhausts directly out the back of the hood?
[OP]
Newbie
Jun 24, 2009
26 posts
Zamboni wrote: You have oriented the fan so it exhausts directly out the back of the hood?
The hood is placed as absolutely high as possible, without cutting holes in the house, which I might have to after all... Right now, it has a super tight 90 degree angle in the duct going out. The duct exits the house though the wall right above the hood. Noway to gain any height unless a new hole is cut, or the current holt is extended, stretched, upwards. I think I may have to rise it to 30", because otherwise I can't get any of the gas guys to cooperate. They're covering their behinds, as dumb and broken the rules really are, but I don't blame them. They're the ones facing audits and liabilities. I respect that. I don't, however, appreciate, the CSA's and TSSA's half baked disorganized inconsistent work.
[OP]
Newbie
Jun 24, 2009
26 posts
The gas guy is now criticizing the counter to be 1/2 too low even though the clearance from the range to the upper cabinets is 18". He also doesn't like the range, because it's an unusual one. Refuses to do the propane conversion. Doesn't like the gas line. This guy just sucks and is in the wrong business. Or else the safety authorities are actively trying to prevent people from using gas ranges. I don't know what to think any more. Oh, and he happily installed a gas range with an under the cabinet hood sitting at 22" from the range, go figure. I'm getting really really fed up with all of this.
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Dec 19, 2009
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123Mike wrote: The hood is placed as absolutely high as possible, without cutting holes in the house, which I might have to after all... Right now, it has a super tight 90 degree angle in the duct going out. The duct exits the house though the wall right above the hood. Noway to gain any height unless a new hole is cut, or the current holt is extended, stretched, upwards. I think I may have to rise it to 30", because otherwise I can't get any of the gas guys to cooperate. They're covering their behinds, as dumb and broken the rules really are, but I don't blame them. They're the ones facing audits and liabilities. I respect that. I don't, however, appreciate, the CSA's and TSSA's half baked disorganized inconsistent work.
CSA B149.1 is the Canada wide code for the installation of natural gas and propane equipment. It is really not even legal/enforceable unless provinces adopt it into their building codes. Provinces have the authority to adopt this code into their own building codes in whole or in part at their discretion. CSA B149.1-15 (2015) is the current CSA regulation and Ontario has adopted this code into their building code as of July 1, 2017. Other provinces may or may not follow this "code" as it's up to them if they do. TSSA (Technical Standards and Safety Authority) administers and enforces technical standards in the province of Ontario and "fuels" is on their mandate, which natural gas is a fuel. They would be the same as ESA (Electrical Safety Authority) when it comes to the "electrical code". TSSA or ESA have no authority outside Ontario and other provinces have their own groups which enforce building codes.

Now CSA is the basis for the gas code and provinces can add into their own building codes extra items/amendments that pertain to the gas code at their discretion but other provinces may not think this/these additions meet their standards. This is why CSA just can't go ahead and amend their code because some province thinks an amendment is necessary.

Regarding 4.1.4 this is the lastest from CSA as per the following link.

4.1.4 Where a conflict exists between the manufacturer’s certified installation instructions and this Code, the most stringent of the two shall prevail.

https://www.tssa.org/en/fuels/resources ... 2-2017.pdf

These were the requirements that I have from CSA B149.1-10 (2010) with regards to gas ranges. I do not have anything from CSA B149.1-15 (2015).

7.32 Residential-type ranges

7.32.1
A range shall not be installed in a bedroom but may be installed in a bed-sitting room, provided that it is not required to be used for space-heating purposes.
7.32.2
A residential-type range shall be installed level. When installed on a combustible floor, it shall be set on its own legs or baffled base and shall be certified for such mounting.
7.32.3
When a vent connector is attached to a range, suitable provision shall be made by the installer for the protection of adjacent combustible material.
7.32.4
Except where permitted by Clauses 4.13.2 and 7.32.5 to 7.32.7, a residential-type range shall have the following minimum clearances from combustible material:
(a) above — 30 in (750 mm); and
(b) back and sides — 6 in (150 mm).
7.32.5
A residential-type range certified for zero side and rear clearances may be installed with zero side clearance from combustible material, provided that there is a 1 in (25 mm) clearance at the back and a 28 MSG (0.3 mm) sheet metal shield on the side walls spaced out a minimum of 0.25 in (6 mm). The shield shall extend from the rear wall to the front edge of the range and from 5 in (125 mm) below to 30 in (750 mm) above the cooking surface.
7.32.6
A new residential-type range shall be installed in accordance with its certified clearances from combustible material as specified on the appliance rating plate.
7.32.7
When the underside of the combustible material above a residential-type range is protected with insulating millboard at least 0.25 in (6 mm) thick covered with sheet metal not less than 28 MSG (0.3 mm), the clearance above the range as specified in Clause 7.32.4 may be reduced to 24 in (600 mm).
7.32.8
An exhaust hood, an exhaust appliance, or a combination thereof installed above a range shall be installed in accordance with certified installation instructions for such an exhaust hood or appliance.

Now whatever Ontario decides to add into their own building code over and above this is up to them and has nothing to do with CSA. I don't think Ontario even adopted CSA B149.1-10 into their building code and stuck with the 2000 code.

Gas technicians in Ontario use CSA B149.1 as their gospel and don't tend to carry around the OBC or refer to it much. If it was pointed out to them the extra exemption in the OBC, 50% would still do it as per CSA and not OBC.

Gas technicians don't tend to install range hoods and the carpenter or homeowner who would be installing it would be going by the OBC because they don't usually refer the the "gas code".

In the link I provided from TSSA it mentions this:

"Section 3 is amended by revoking the definition of “Authority having jurisdiction” and replacing it as follows:
Authority having jurisdiction means the Director designated for the purposes of the Act."

This would be TSSA. So you would contact either them or your local building office for clarification of an OBC regulation ... nothing to do with CSA B149.1

And you wouldn't be able to have anything less than 24" above the stove as the gas code requires 24" minimum for service.

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