Automotive

GM to end automotive production in Oshawa (GM’s final car this week)

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  • Dec 27th, 2019 4:09 pm
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GM to end automotive production in Oshawa (GM’s final car this week)

Gm shutting their doors this week with the final car rolling off the line , then heard it going to be convert to a track where they ship the cars to Oshawa to test but built somewhere else for cheaper.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5398177
Last edited by shawn01 on Dec 18th, 2019 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Long time coming. I wish the folks well but it's going to be hard. Read from another source somewhere from a numbers perspective it would appear that most of the workers losing their jobs are taking retirement and others are moving elsewhere like St. Catherines. How does the interviewed person work for 34 years not retire? I don't even know what will 'roll' off the line. The only cars they 'make' is the impala and xts.
DYI difficulty scale:
0-joke
10-no joke

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Anyone with 30 or more yrs of service should retire. Enjoy pension and free time.
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apnayloags wrote: Anyone with 30 or more yrs of service should retire. Enjoy pension and free time.
Might be hard if they were living a certain lifestyle and now their income is significantly less.
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koffey wrote: How does the interviewed person work for 34 years not retire?
I think they need to pick someone else if they want a sob story.

End of the day, 2500 is nothing when MB and Audi are reducing 10k each between now and 2025.

Thank Elon for changing the world. This won't be the end of it. Early prediction is 75000 jobs gone worldwide but that's an very early look. The end could be over 1M of unemployment if the industry shed 8% of the jobs.
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Xtrema wrote: I think they need to pick someone else if they want a sob story.

End of the day, 2500 is nothing when MB and Audi are reducing 10k each between now and 2025.

Thank Elon for changing the world. This won't be the end of it. Early prediction is 75000 jobs gone worldwide but that's an very early look. The end could be over 1M of unemployment if the industry shed 8% of the jobs.
The people in these factories were making great wages for what was often fairly low skilled labour. It's not as insane as some of the operators out here in AB (which can be higher skill but the pay is just insane - higher than upper level managers in the same companies) but people should take personal responsibility for their own finances and saving for retirement when they make good money. I'm a real estate agent and I know the incomes aren't going to last forever, so we have ten year old cars and save every month.

Even though I am saying this I still support social safety nets and probably a universal basic income one day. The best setup is everyone being personally diligent and the government ensuring a good quality of life for those who have difficult circumstances.

PS: Boomers who own homes have experienced the single biggest financial boost ever for nothing in return. Anyone who bought in the olden days, had a job like this and still has a mortgage or no savings gets no sympathy from me unless there are extenuating circumstances.
Last edited by Blubbs on Dec 17th, 2019 4:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Xtrema wrote: I think they need to pick someone else if they want a sob story.

End of the day, 2500 is nothing when MB and Audi are reducing 10k each between now and 2025.

Thank Elon for changing the world. This won't be the end of it. Early prediction is 75000 jobs gone worldwide but that's an very early look. The end could be over 1M of unemployment if the industry shed 8% of the jobs.
Those are global numbers for Audi and MB. It's 2500 GM jobs in Canada. Overall, 5 GM plants in NA are closing putting 14,000 workers out of a job.
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Xtrema wrote: I think they need to pick someone else if they want a sob story.

End of the day, 2500 is nothing when MB and Audi are reducing 10k each between now and 2025.

Thank Elon for changing the world. This won't be the end of it. Early prediction is 75000 jobs gone worldwide but that's an very early look. The end could be over 1M of unemployment if the industry shed 8% of the jobs.
Many people being snatched up by Tesla. Hiring 10,000 in Germany. Thanks Elon!!!

Hardest hit industry? Healthcare. Having cleaner air is going to decimate the healthcare and funeral industries :(
Last edited by Rob_EV on Dec 17th, 2019 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Xtrema wrote: I think they need to pick someone else if they want a sob story.

End of the day, 2500 is nothing when MB and Audi are reducing 10k each between now and 2025...
You have to look at the multiplication effect as well. Each auto manufacturing job supports between 4-8 other associated jobs from suppliers, restaurants, etc. So 2500 lost jobs in one city like Oshawa really means about 10,000 lost jobs from the region
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I think this is far more reaching than just "GM shutting down Oshawa." Basically the big-3 are screwed in the long run. They are no longer marketable in the rest of the world, they're considered pure garbage in any other car market except North America. They have no presence in Japan, a diminishing one in China, almost none in India, and no European really buys American.

So what did they do? They doubled down on the North American market by selling a crapload of trucks and only trucks. Look how terrible Chrysler is doing, they're basically the worst automaker in the world. Ford said it isn't going to make anything but trucks and SUVs, and GM couldn't give its passenger cars away.

It is a slow-grinding death, while the Japanese and European are reinventing themselves for the 21st century.
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Rob_EV wrote: Many people being snatched up by Tesla. Hiring 10,000 in Germany. Thanks Elon!!!

Hardest hit industry? Healthcare. Having cleaner air is going to decimate the healthcare and funeral industries :(
Loss of 70,000 and gain of 10,000. Great math there.

Look, I work in an industry that displace a lot of people and jobs too. But I ain't sugarcoating it. It is what it is. You simply don't reduce 2000 moving parts to 20 without a bunch of people losing their jobs. Also, China control 80% of rare earth mining and processing right now and has not been shy in using that to threaten any nation to bend to their will, including US.

Just don't get pissed off if you get Trump/Ford as leaders when people are out of work.
Anikiri wrote: I think this is far more reaching than just "GM shutting down Oshawa." Basically the big-3 are screwed in the long run. They are no longer marketable in the rest of the world, they're considered pure garbage in any other car market except North America. They have no presence in Japan, a diminishing one in China, almost none in India, and no European really buys American.

So what did they do? They doubled down on the North American market by selling a crapload of trucks and only trucks. Look how terrible Chrysler is doing, they're basically the worst automaker in the world. Ford said it isn't going to make anything but trucks and SUVs, and GM couldn't give its passenger cars away.

It is a slow-grinding death, while the Japanese and European are reinventing themselves for the 21st century.
In the end, UAW will be the end of big 3. The German unions see what's coming and let the cut happen. I don't see UAW will go as easy.

Technically, Americans are just as good. Ford Mach-E looks interesting/promising.
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Xtrema wrote: Technically, Americans are just as good. Ford Mach-E looks interesting/promising.
Mach-e is going to be fairly low volume compared with the Model Y. My prediction.
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Rob_EV wrote: Mach-e is going to be fairly low volume compared with the Model Y. My prediction.
Initially. Once US get rid of all the environmental laws that prohibit rare earth mining and stop being China's bitch, watch out.
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Xtrema wrote: Initially. Once US get rid of all the environmental laws that prohibit rare earth mining and stop being China's bitch, watch out.
That helps small EV manufacturers more than it helps HUGE EV manufacturers? OK.
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Rob_EV wrote: That helps small EV manufacturers more than it helps HUGE EV manufacturers? OK.
It helps everyone if we stop single sourcing from a unreliable partner.
While China has so far not explicitly said it would restrict rare earths sales to the United States, Chinese media has strongly implied this will happen.

In a commentary headlined “United States, don’t underestimate China’s ability to strike back,” the official People’s Daily noted the United States’ “uncomfortable” dependence on rare earths from China.
https://investorintel.com/sectors/techn ... th-supply/

And if you think Japan is the only partner we need....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_earths_trade_dispute

I don't see in the immediate future where rare earth isn't needed in EVs.

US backed out of Paris and restarting this, both for defense purpose and it will only help the EV industry.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chin ... SKCN1SZ2C6
Last edited by Xtrema on Dec 17th, 2019 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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GM could have gone EV a decade ago but didn't. They put the nail on their own coffin.
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I wonder who's going to pay taxes to afford to pay the Teachers, Doctors and Nurses salaries, who are all on the sunshine list.

Good unskilled jobs in manufacturing will be gone very soon and we'll be borrowing money to support essential services. Maybe if only 25% of them go bankrupt and hand in their house keys to the bank, someone will notice.

I don't know who can afford a new car anyway, I'll run my older vehicle into the ground and when it dies, I'll buy another used one. Car companies keep raising their prices and are pricing many out of the market.
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cristianosham wrote: GM could have gone EV a decade ago but didn't. They put the nail on their own coffin.
GM subsequently announced that it was discontinuing the EV1 because there was no demand. What it meant was there was no demand at prices exceeding the cost of production. It should have done a better job of explaining this. Instead the enthusiasts took this to be a lie because they thought that demand was a term that was independent of price.
Now there are 2 camps and of course the EV lovers loves the movies version.

But the deal was, EV1 was $54K in 2018 dollars for a 2 seater with 100mile or less range. Would you buy that today?

Also even at that price, GM is losing close to $50K (1996 money) per unit sold.

So in the end the problem was GM was letting people lease it for $300/mth and set MSRP too low in the trial program. But Hollywood decided to go with the tin foil hat narrative.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1#Costs

Of course, the cost is also related to internal conflicts and legacy structures of GM. There is no doubt about that. Both Germans and Japanese are guilty of the same legacy issues.
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Gibsons wrote: I wonder who's going to pay taxes to afford to pay the Teachers, Doctors and Nurses salaries, who are all on the sunshine list.

Good unskilled jobs in manufacturing will be gone very soon and we'll be borrowing money to support essential services. Maybe if only 25% of them go bankrupt and hand in their house keys to the bank, someone will notice.

I don't know who can afford a new car anyway, I'll run my older vehicle into the ground and when it dies, I'll buy another used one. Car companies keep raising their prices and are pricing many out of the market.
Those with disposeable income and those who likes to take out 8yr loans...seems the latter is increasing.

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