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Dec 14, 2008
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I believe that we will see an end to the petrodollar. With the culmination BRICS and the recent snubbing of Saudi Arabia by the US via the Iran deal, more and more countries are electing to settle transactions in their own currencies rather than US dollars that continue to be printed out of thin air. China who imports more oil from Saudi than the US does, is already settling with Yuan. We are rapidly approaching the end of the US dollar as the worlds reserve currency. All past reserve currencies have failed as will the USD. China has increased their gold holdings considerably over the last number of years. There is strong indications that they will back the Renminbi with gold. Would you rather hold currency that is backed by gold....or that is backed by.......nothing?

[IMG]http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/ ... oney_0.jpg[/IMG]

It is obvious that other countries around the world are no longer keen on buying US treasuries....really why buy a sinking ship. While the FED has started to taper...I am betting that they will halt the tapering before the end of 2014 and increase QE. If they taper to $0.00 who will buy their debt?

[IMG]http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b57 ... c25f4c.png[/IMG]
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kryton619 wrote: It is obvious that other countries around the world are no longer keen on buying US treasuries....really why buy a sinking ship. While the FED has started to taper...I am betting that they will halt the tapering before the end of 2014 and increase QE. If they taper to $0.00 who will buy their debt?
Not only do they have to eventually taper to $0, but they have to unload $4T of US Treasuries on the balance sheet. Of course, if the Fed isn't buying the US gov't debt, than its price will collapse, creating trillions of losses to the Federal Reserve. Which will have to find some way of printing the money to replace such.

Ceryx is so glad that his no-earnings tech stocks went up 30%, while gold went down 30% last year. So am I -- it gave me a chance to put money to work in the sector cheaply, buying things of real value. Not supporting the latest Ponzi scheme dreamt up in the United States.
TodayHello wrote: ...The Banks are smarter than you - they have floors full of people whose job it is to read Mark77 posts...
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Jan 16, 2009
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kryton619 wrote: China has increased their gold holdings considerably over the last number of years
http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/content/ ... &sn=Detail

The publication of China’s gold reserves this year came in at 1,059 tonnes still. This has been the case since 2009.


Not only Chinese central bank didn't increase gold reserve in the last couple of years, the percentage of gold in their reserve is actually dropping since 2009.

Your argument is based on falsified data and I bet you haven't heard anything called Shale oil which will make US number one oil EXPORTER in the next 10 years.

That's why USD will still be the reserve currency.
kryton619 wrote: It is obvious that other countries around the world are no longer keen on buying US treasuries....really why buy a sinking ship. While the FED has started to taper...I am betting that they will halt the tapering before the end of 2014 and increase QE. If they taper to $0.00 who will buy their debt?

You obviously don't understand how treasuries works with currencies. If you look at the data, the countries that are selling treasuries to avoid depreciation.
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Ceryx wrote: Not only Chinese central bank didn't increase gold reserve in the last couple of years, the percentage of gold in their reserve is actually dropping since 2009.
There's private ownership of gold too you know in China. Not just stuff owned by the central banks.
Your argument is based on falsified data and I bet you haven't heard anything called Shale oil which will make US number one oil EXPORTER in the next 10 years.
Are you kidding? You do realize that the same production methods can be applied worldwide, not just in the United States. And shale oil wells have extremely high depletion rates which makes growth rather difficult. The only way energy independence (nevermind actual net energy exports) will be seen in the US is with a severe depression in the 'consumer' end of the economy. In other words, a dramatic reduction in driving, flying, leisure travel, and other wasteful practices. All of which cause severe dislocations to firms that rely upon such (ie: a significant chunk of the US stock market).

You obviously don't understand how treasuries works with currencies. If you look at the data, the countries that are selling treasuries to avoid depreciation.
Yeah depreciation in the treasuries themselves.
TodayHello wrote: ...The Banks are smarter than you - they have floors full of people whose job it is to read Mark77 posts...
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Mark77 wrote: There's private ownership of gold too you know in China. Not just stuff owned by the central banks.
The point he made that China central bank is buying gold, which is clearly not the case.
Are you kidding? You do realize that the same production methods can be applied worldwide, not just in the United States. And shale oil wells have extremely high depletion rates which makes growth rather difficult. The only way energy independence (nevermind actual net energy exports) will be seen in the US is with a severe depression in the 'consumer' end of the economy. In other words, a dramatic reduction in driving, flying, leisure travel, and other wasteful practices.
Suffice to say, your knowledge in this area is like your economic, which is utterly insufficient.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-1 ... -says.html

I would suggest you read above before making some false claims.
Yeah depreciation in the treasuries themselves.
Yap, which is essentially robbing the wealth emerging countries accumulates in their foreign reserves.
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Ceryx wrote: The point he made that China central bank is buying gold, which is clearly not the case.
He said "China". Which generically means both private and public sector participants in the Chinese economy.

If you have been following shale oil carefully, you should know US is keeping shale oil technologies to themselves.
Not really. Halliburton, Schlumberger, BJ Services, etc., are international companies that ply their trade basically everywhere there's money to be made, and there are no meaningful export restrictions on the machinery and processes. Its oil drilling gear, not nuclear weaponry!
Suffice to say, your knowledge in this area is like your economic, which is utterly insufficient.
Hardly.
Yap, which is essentially robbing the wealth emerging countries accumulates in their foreign reserves.
At least they have wealth available, and can produce more. The US, OTOH, has heavy reliance on foreigners buying the Treasuries. The US is in a position of weakness, not strength.
TodayHello wrote: ...The Banks are smarter than you - they have floors full of people whose job it is to read Mark77 posts...
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Mark77 wrote: Ceryx is so glad that his no-earnings tech stocks went up 30%, while gold went down 30% last year. So am I -- it gave me a chance to put money to work in the sector cheaply, buying things of real value. Not supporting the latest Ponzi scheme dreamt up in the United States.
I'm not surprised. Gold price is based on hope anyway.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hope-gold ... 27411.html

With China/India bursting their housing bubble soon, I really don't think there is much hope in the next 24 months.

Oh well, it keeps you sleep at night so I would say that's good.
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Ceryx wrote: I'm not surprised. Gold price is based on hope anyway.
Your point? US T-Bond prices, and the minimal-earnings part of the US stock market are priced based on hope as well.
TodayHello wrote: ...The Banks are smarter than you - they have floors full of people whose job it is to read Mark77 posts...
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Ceryx wrote: http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/content/ ... &sn=Detail

The publication of China’s gold reserves this year came in at 1,059 tonnes still. This has been the case since 2009.
LOL...this is because the have not reported their increase in gold reserves since 2009. Spend some time researching the gold flow through the LBMA, Hong Kong, and Shanghai gold exchange. It is estimated that when China next announces their gold holdings it will be north of 5000 tonnes.

[IMG]http://www.greatnorthernprepper.com/wp- ... mports.jpg[/IMG]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-2 ... ecord.html

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 147_1.html
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Mark77 wrote: He said "China". Which generically means both private and public sector participants in the Chinese economy.
China didn't increase its gold reserve holding. You have to understand the different between buying gold as jewelry and buying gold as reserve.
Not really. Halliburton, Schlumberger, BJ Services, etc., are international companies that ply their trade basically everywhere there's money to be made, and there are no meaningful export restrictions on the machinery and processes. Its oil drilling gear, not nuclear weaponry!
The U.S. is at the forefront of the shale boom because it has developed the technology and know-how to profitably extract these resources.
http://www.hardassetsinvestor.com/featu ... urces.html

Good luck on getting those oil drilling gear.
At least they have wealth available, and can produce more. The US, OTOH, has heavy reliance on foreigners buying the Treasuries. The US is in a position of weakness, not strength.
This is coming from a guy who doesn't know how foreign reserve is used for currency manipulation. no wonder you make false statement like this.
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kryton619 wrote: LOL...this is because the have not reported their increase in gold reserves since 2009. Spend some time researching the gold flow through the LBMA, Hong Kong, and Shanghai gold exchange. It is estimated that when China next announces their gold holdings it will be north of 5000 tonnes.
LOL. So you guys are now investing based on Hope?

Even with 5000 tonnes, that's still very little percentage increase considering the growth of their foreign reserve holdings since 2009.

Maybe you guys will only quiet down when gold reached 800 in the next 3 years, when there is absolutely no hope...haha
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Mark77 wrote: Your point? US T-Bond prices, and the minimal-earnings part of the US stock market are priced based on hope as well.
The T-bond can be affected by US fed policy and US stock market is based on earning. Oh, and they actually generate values, product or interest.

Gold, on the other hand, is purely speculation so hope plays a very important role.
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Ceryx wrote: China didn't increase its gold reserve holding. You have to understand the different between buying gold as jewelry and buying gold as reserve
I fully understand both concepts. Not much to add until China updates their official gold holdings.

With respect to shale gas....you may want to take some time to read this:

http://srsroccoreport.com/must-read-the ... as-bubble/
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Ceryx wrote: China didn't increase its gold reserve holding. You have to understand the different between buying gold as jewelry and buying gold as reserve.
Jewelry isn't the only form of private sector gold holdings. And the evidence is, jewelry or bullion, Chinese gold demand is off the charts.
This is coming from a guy who doesn't know how foreign reserve is used for currency manipulation. no wonder you make false statement like this.
Sure, there's currency manipulation. But over the long term, reserves are accumulated to be spent, and for no other reason. And I've made no false statement.

Lots of people out there criticize the gold mining industry's heavy energy consumption. And that's a fair and legitimate criticism. But look at the energy consumption of the paper money industry -- far higher in comparison. Just look at the millions of people worldwide that drive to work to work in paper-based 'banks' . All the flights taken by bankers. The energy inputs, however large on an individual basis, that are consumed by the gold miners, pale in comparison.

ie:
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/manufacturi ... silver.pdf

Page 15, 3.7 million barrels per year of fuel oil used in 1997 in the gold mining industry, and ~14 million gallons of gasoline. That's absolutely trivial compared to the annual consumption of just one big US city.
TodayHello wrote: ...The Banks are smarter than you - they have floors full of people whose job it is to read Mark77 posts...

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