Personal Finance

Good news re CERB repayment for self-employed recepients.

  • Last Updated:
  • Feb 27th, 2021 9:52 am
[OP]
Sr. Member
Nov 5, 2009
826 posts
124 upvotes
Montreal

Good news re CERB repayment for self-employed recepients.

Some good news for those Canadians who applied for CERB help thinking they honestly were eligible but because of CRA confusion about gross vs. net income, discovered they were not.

Bottom line: You don't have to repay.

I personally know someone in that situation and it has been a nightmare for them. I just found out about and I called her up and she was so happy she literally couldn't breathe.

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/ ... d-to-repay
Last edited by redflag5050 on Feb 9th, 2021 11:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
67 replies
Banned
Feb 3, 2021
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I'll be honest, I regret not applying to CERB when it first came out even thought by the book I was not eligible.

8.9 million applicants for CERB alone out of a total workforce of 19.18 million in Feb before lockdowns. I am 110% sure a big majority of 8.9 million (no idea the number, 25-50%?) were not eligible like me or decided to "reduce" their hours intentionally once the 50% rule came into effect.

14000 is no chump change, and makes me regret even more when I read articles such as these:
https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/ ... tute-study
https://nationalpost.com/news/singh-say ... fraudsters

If I did the "right thing", then why does that leave me with a bad taste in my mouth? Especially since I will have the privilege to pay up these spending through taxation in the coming years
Deal Fanatic
Apr 16, 2007
7960 posts
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Financial District B…
OP needs to make it clear that this only pertains to self-employed recipients


I think the total amount of self-employed that actually applied for CERB is pretty small. That's why they are changing their stance now to forgive it all.

If the applicants was upwards in the millions to 10 million or so it would be a different story
Last edited by mikeymike1 on Feb 9th, 2021 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
----------------------------Licensed Credit Bureau member, S1, FI Automotive, CCP forums most banned = x 13 and counting, guess who that is?... stomped to the curb once again
Deal Addict
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Nov 1, 2001
1055 posts
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Toronto
The government made a costly mistakes not being clear about the criteria. I would hope that the people who applied would prove they met the criteria under the misunderstood circumstances and not to people who didn't make any money at all. I know people that didn't even meet the $5k minimum but applied anyways, got the money, and then worked cash jobs to come out ahead during the cerb times.
Deal Addict
Jul 10, 2014
2779 posts
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Ottawa, ON
CERB was mismanaged from the start. Can't trust the government to do anything right.
Deal Addict
Sep 2, 2009
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"good news" for those that applied in good faith (and bad faith?!). Not so good news for the tax payers.
Deal Addict
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Dec 16, 2015
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As usual, its better not to work and receiving wealth from those who do in a socialist country
To the moon
[OP]
Sr. Member
Nov 5, 2009
826 posts
124 upvotes
Montreal
As mentioned in my op, I sited the example of someone who applied in good faith. She had called twice into the CRA and was told it was her gross, not net income. Only after 2 separate confirmations did she apply. Imagine her grief when, much later on she realized the government's error had put her in this awful situation. I called her around mid-nite to tell her the good news. She was hyper ventilating when she absorbed the news. She is but a small example of many.

Goes without saying that as always, some people will game the system. Karma is coming for those who did.
Deal Fanatic
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Jun 19, 2001
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For the cost of $billions...Trudeau guarantees he wins the next election!

Bonus...you don't have to pay any interest on tax owing if you received a COVID benefit for a year either
Deal Fanatic
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Oct 5, 2007
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LITERALLY BILLIONS of dollars are coming out of taxpayer pockets

this is absolutely ridiculous

how if this fair in any way.
Sr. Member
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Aug 30, 2020
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YEG/YYZ
So... Does CRA consider any difference between unemployed and self - employed but made $0 gross?

Funny how there are those that are so vocal about Canada bring a nanny-state, but don't bother with an emergency fund and needed $2k a month from the government to survive.
Member
Apr 16, 2015
209 posts
289 upvotes
zoro69 wrote: For the cost of $billions...Trudeau guarantees he wins the next election!
Well, he lost my vote by forgiving this debt. In general, I think he did what was needed to help people out quickly, but the promise was always that those not entitled would have to repay it. Sure, there are a few who applied in good faith, based on bad CRA info, but there are many more who knowingly cheated the system and are not being held accountable. I pay about $14,000 a year in income tax, so maybe one of the CERB recipients can send me a thank-you card :twisted:
Deal Addict
Dec 12, 2009
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catsoncoffee wrote: ... the promise was always that those not entitled would have to repay it. Sure, there are a few who applied in good faith, based on bad CRA info, but there are many more who knowingly cheated the system and are not being held accountable.
I don't believe they said everybody was off the hook. Once they've accounted for those that got caught up in bad info, I'm hoping they will disclose the number of claims that are being held accountable.
I do know someone that works for CRA and they said many got moved over to validating / auditing CERB claims. If and when those numbers come out, I will form an opinion. Until then anything is premature.
Following the advice of the Health Experts - I will consider voting for Dougie @ 12:01 AM, five days after the next provincial election.
Deal Addict
Jun 12, 2008
1141 posts
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Ripley
If someone is making less than $5000 net, they are not self-employed, that's a hobby. No one is living off of less than $5000 net in normal times. And common sense tells you that if you make less than $5000 per year profit then you shouldn't collect $14000 from the government. This is ridiculous. They should have to pay it back.

I'm curious what your friend did with the money. If normally she only spends $5000/yr to live she should at least have $9000 sitting in the bank that she didn't need.
Deal Addict
Feb 17, 2017
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zeddy wrote: If someone is making less than $5000 net, they are not self-employed, that's a hobby. No one is living off of less than $5000 net in normal times. And common sense tells you that if you make less than $5000 per year profit then you shouldn't collect $14000 from the government. This is ridiculous. They should have to pay it back.

I'm curious what your friend did with the money. If normally she only spends $5000/yr to live she should at least have $9000 sitting in the bank that she didn't need.
I would normally agree but given that even CRA agents were telling people they were eligible its difficult to go back on.
Deal Fanatic
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Oct 5, 2007
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my thing is

even if the guv will say, oh, we will ensure ppl who said they were self-employed, but really not, will be penalized

.....Is the guv really going to audit like 10 million ppl (throwing a number out) who took advantage?

THEY BETTER.
[OP]
Sr. Member
Nov 5, 2009
826 posts
124 upvotes
Montreal
zeddy wrote: If someone is making less than $5000 net, they are not self-employed, that's a hobby. No one is living off of less than $5000 net in normal times. And common sense tells you that if you make less than $5000 per year profit then you shouldn't collect $14000 from the government. This is ridiculous. They should have to pay it back.

I'm curious what your friend did with the money. If normally she only spends $5000/yr to live she should at least have $9000 sitting in the bank that she didn't need.
My friend has been registered, self employed with a GST & Qst number for more than 20 years. 2019 was her worst year ever . She has made anywhere from 6k in 2019 to 60k in 2011. You can not penalize someone for having a terrible year when you are dishing out money to students who worked part time and made 5k to qualify.
Deal Addict
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Mar 9, 2012
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Kitchener
So this means that the CRA should give HONEST Canadians who made $5,000 gross, before expenses, the CERB as well. It's not their fault that they are not stupid or are scam artists. Do that, that's fair.
Why can't we all just get along?

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