Real Estate

Is this good time to buy real estate in Toronto/GTA?

  • Last Updated:
  • Feb 25th, 2019 3:47 pm
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civiclease wrote:
Feb 17th, 2019 12:46 pm
According to South China Morning Post, there are 1 million foreigners living in China. Most come from Hong Kong, South Korea, the Philippines, and Brazil. A very tiny number are highly educated Western professionals.

www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article ... tudy-finds

There will always be some sino-philes in the West, but generally very few Westerners dream of moving to Beijing. They’re just not that into your country and culture.

And it appears you’re unaware that Canadians, or any other foreigners, are not allowed to buy property in China. Maybe put in a call to Xi and see if he’ll change that policy because, you know, globalism.
Maybe not in Beijing or Shanghai but foreigners are allow to purchase property in HK and Macau. But you are correct, not many will want to move to Beijing, Shanghai or Hong Kong. It is the other way around because if you are lucky enough to own a 1000 sq ft condo in one of those cities you can easily sell it and trade it for 2 detach homes in the GTA.
Last edited by Silver1234 on Feb 17th, 2019 1:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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civiclease wrote:
Feb 17th, 2019 12:46 pm
According to South China Morning Post, there are 1 million foreigners living in China. Most come from Hong Kong, South Korea, the Philippines, and Brazil. A very tiny number are highly educated Western professionals.

www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article ... tudy-finds

There will always be some sino-philes in the West, but generally very few Westerners dream of moving to Beijing. They’re just not that into your country and culture.

And it appears you’re unaware that Canadians, or any other foreigners, are not allowed to buy property in China. Maybe put in a call to Xi and see if he’ll change that policy because, you know, globalism.
Like I said, it's not my country. I'm a proud Canadian. I have no ties to Mainland China. I only find it sad that as Canadians we act so entitled and our attitude has and will continue to be overly reliant on our American cousins while we continue to be uncompetitive globally. With all due respect, I'm not sure if you realize that your responses are reflective of the ignorance and attitude that many have in the West about Asia/China. It's not helping our cause in helping us compete globally. While we stand on our high horses, act all superior, and get obsessed with nonsense like gender unicorns and using the correct pronouns, China is advancing at a rapid pace in all areas economically, militarily, economically, technologically, and building up their infrastructure.

Yes, we aren't allowed to buy property in China, which is also not helping us in being able to compete. It's not a level or fair playing field. That being said, that doesn't mean that we couldn't buy property in HK/Macau/Sydney/NYC/Paris/London etc. etc. which is what the Chinese are doing. It's not even just real estate. Just look at the flow of capital and investment and the influence that the Chinese is having in all major economies. Again, it's a global economy. Either you compete or get left behind. It's dog eat dog. No one cares about your feelings and we aren't helping ourselves.
Last edited by moofur on Feb 17th, 2019 1:15 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Silver1234 wrote:
Feb 17th, 2019 1:01 pm
Maybe not in Beijing or Shanghai but foreigners are allow to purchase property in HK and Macau.
so not in China lol
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Buggy166 wrote:
Feb 17th, 2019 1:09 pm
so not in China lol
Is Hong Kong and Macau not part of China? The only differences is China allow dual citizenship in the SAR cities.
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Nothing like real estate to get the xenophobia going. I read some of the comments on YouTube with regards to Vancouver real estate and it’s disgusting.
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We are talking about buying in Toronto or GTA, not somewhere else.
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Oct 16, 2010
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JayLove06 wrote:
Feb 17th, 2019 10:52 am
https://www.businessinsider.com/most-in ... 6-berlin-6
https://www.moneysense.ca/spend/real-es ... ss-cities/
https://www.spottedbylocals.com/blog/al ... ma-cities/

No matter what we think, the world seems to think Toronto is one of the better cities in the world.
The only one of those that is mainstream and respectable is BusinessInsider, and it rates us at 18 in comparison to Chicago's 8th. Similar populations between both cities as well. Yet, one city has a property market that well inline with the average household incomes despite the gargantuan financial industry that vastly eclipses the other. Chicago's financial industry is absolutely critical to the global financial system. Toronto is not even close.

neilsmith43 wrote:
Feb 17th, 2019 11:11 am
That's why so many immigrants land Toronto.
JayLove06 wrote:
Feb 17th, 2019 11:17 am
It's that simple.
And how much are those immigrants earning exactly in comparison to the average Canadian household? Especially those in Toronto? We all know the stats that have been posted endlessly on here. Toronto is a great city for immigrants and overall, but we aren't exactly attracting the best talent here that demand compensation inline with what they could get elsewhere in the developed world.
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moofur wrote:
Feb 17th, 2019 12:17 pm
Which is why housing prices have been on a tear the past couple of years even though they are still cheap in comparison.
So what you’re saying is immigrants loving Toronto is the reason for the prices for the last decade. Couldn’t be the fact that the bank of Canada lowered interest rates to 0 and inflated a speculative bubble as evidenced by the many people owning several properties.

Why are Chinese investors allowed to speculate on Canadian housing when foreigners aren’t allowed to purchase property in China?
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attire wrote:
Feb 17th, 2019 6:13 pm
The only one of those that is mainstream and respectable is BusinessInsider, and it rates us at 18 in comparison to Chicago's 8th. Similar populations between both cities as well. Yet, one city has a property market that well inline with the average household incomes despite the gargantuan financial industry that vastly eclipses the other. Chicago's financial industry is absolutely critical to the global financial system. Toronto is not even close.





And how much are those immigrants earning exactly in comparison to the average Canadian household? Especially those in Toronto? We all know the stats that have been posted endlessly on here. Toronto is a great city for immigrants and overall, but we aren't exactly attracting the best talent here that demand compensation inline with what they could get elsewhere in the developed world.
Yes Toronto pays crap compared to other world class cities and that’s what people should be more upset about than immigrants buying up housing. Companies are getting away with murder when you see the salaries here and the job requirements.

Keep in mind, a lot of immigrants are coming here and starting businesses. Many are coming with money. We aren’t letting in poor uneducated immigrants. There’s a reason Trump wants a Canadian style migration process.
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attire wrote:
Feb 17th, 2019 6:02 pm
So explain to me, Mr Proud Canadian, what reforms should so-called "entitled" Canadians endorse and support to please the international plutocracy?
I'm not an expert and I don't purport to know all the answers, but I would start with things such as not wasting time debating, discussing or teaching our kids things like "gender identity" or the"gender unicorn" and instead teach them things of value like hard sciences and financial literacy. On the same token, we should invest in these disciplines in our universities, and start giving loans and invest in kids who would like to further their career in disciplines such as the trades, maths, computer engineering, sciences, etc.. In other words, assess the needs of our country in order to determine what is needed to compete globally instead of trying to be politically correct and preach "fairness" and give free tuition and subsidies or loans to disciplines that really don't increase our global competitiveness like gender studies, women's studies, social justice, etc. and only creates more SJWs who view the world in unrealistic ideals. These are the same ignorant and entitled people who protest the streets and continue this vicious cycle of uncompetitiveness to which I am alluding to.

That's just a start, but there is no shortage of good ideas and people/academics/experts who recognize how our lack of competitiveness stems from entitlement and over-dependency on our southern neighbours. Below are just a few examples:

https://business.financialpost.com/inve ... obal-stage
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/10/ ... itiveness/
http://chamber.ca/advocacy/10-ways-2018/

You claim to love this country, yet clearly you don't sound so pleased with the systems in place here and are suggesting a desire to import systems of governance from the third-world. Yeah, that will definitely "make Canada great again".
I'm not pleased with the entitlement that many Canadians routinely display as a result of the ignorance that we have towards the rest of the world, especially China. We have this superiority complex which led to our election of an idiot like Trudeau who routinely feeds this by virtue signalling and appeasing his base while our international competitiveness continue to erode and we get left in the dust economically by countries like China.

I never said that we should import China's system of governance. As a matter of fact, I routinely criticize their system of government. However, what you cannot deny is that despite their human rights issues and many other problems, they are now a global economic powerhouse, and we are struggling to catch up. If it wasn't for our southern neighbour, we probably wouldn't have 1/10 of the standard of living that we have.
I can't believe people are still harping about "the world is getting more global" today. Do you watch the news? Do you know who Trump is and what Brexit is?
Why yes I do know who Trump is. His tax reforms have made them all that more competitive globally which is another major blow to us.

https://www.ey.com/ca/en/services/tax/h ... titiveness

As for Brexit, yes, it is a knock on global trade, but with the internet, cryptocurrency, mass immigration etc., you would be naive to think that there is less free international movement of both financial and human capital than we had 10 years ago. This is also why Brexit has been so hard to implement and they are talking about them possibly having to abandon it by calling another referendum. To me, Brexit is more a symptom of people rejecting the massive unchecked and unvetted immigration as opposed to the rejection of global trade.
Last edited by moofur on Feb 17th, 2019 6:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Sparky9087 wrote:
Feb 17th, 2019 6:39 pm
So what you’re saying is immigrants loving Toronto is the reason for the prices for the last decade. Couldn’t be the fact that the bank of Canada lowered interest rates to 0 and inflated a speculative bubble as evidenced by the many people owning several properties.

Why are Chinese investors allowed to speculate on Canadian housing when foreigners aren’t allowed to purchase property in China?
You don’t understand why a country like Canada would not be welcoming to any and everybody especially those with money? China doesn’t need people. Canada does. People aren’t even having babies at the same rate here. People are leaving our country for greener pastures. Our economy is mediocre at best outside of real estate. Oh but there’s oil! Nope. There’s manufacturing! No. Cars! Nope.

A country like Canada shouldn’t be deterring people from investing in it.

But blame the Chinese! This is nothing more than large scale gentrification and last time I checked we never gave a crap about the lower income people that got pushed out.

Just another case of people only caring about things that affect them. Nothing to see here folks.

Cry about handouts to lower income earners, then cry for help when you can’t buy that detach house in the city. Face With Tears Of Joy
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JayLove06 wrote:
Feb 17th, 2019 6:53 pm
You don’t understand why a country like Canada would not be welcoming to any and everybody especially those with money? China doesn’t need people. Canada does. People aren’t even having babies at the same rate here. People are leaving our country for greener pastures. Our economy is mediocre at best outside of real estate. Oh but there’s oil! Nope. There’s manufacturing! No. Cars! Nope.

A country like Canada shouldn’t be deterring people from investing in it.
Speculating on real estate and pushing home prices out of the hands of the average Canadian is not investing. Well it’s a kind of investing but it’s the kind that should be outlawed. Come here and open a business. But Chinese buying up real estate should be outlawed. No worries. They’ll pull the rug out from under the real estate market and leave Canadians to clean up the pieces.
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Sparky9087 wrote:
Feb 17th, 2019 6:39 pm
So what you’re saying is immigrants loving Toronto is the reason for the prices for the last decade. Couldn’t be the fact that the bank of Canada lowered interest rates to 0 and inflated a speculative bubble as evidenced by the many people owning several properties.
Both play a part. Locally, interest rates were at record lows which led to the buying frenzy. Internationally speaking, Canada/Toronto is and continues to be seen as a great place to live given our stable political system, great social benefits (ie. education/health care/employment insurance/pension etc.), and proximity to the US. Foreigners see this and coupled with our comparatively cheap real estate it has led to a spike in prices.
Why are Chinese investors allowed to speculate on Canadian housing when foreigners aren’t allowed to purchase property in China?
Because the world isn't fair. Never was, never will be. It's a dog eat dog world and nobody will feel sorry for you, especially not China. All we can do as Canadians is to ensure that we remain competitive globally.
Last edited by moofur on Feb 17th, 2019 7:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Sparky9087 wrote:
Feb 17th, 2019 6:56 pm
Speculating on real estate and pushing home prices out of the hands of the average Canadian is not investing. Well it’s a kind of investing but it’s the kind that should be outlawed. Come here and open a business. But Chinese buying up real estate should be outlawed. No worries. They’ll pull the rug out from under the real estate market and leave Canadians to clean up the pieces.
Man let them buy. If you want to charge vacancy tax and every other tax then so be it. You can’t just ban an entire country, especially with the number of Chinese who have made positive contributions to this country.

Are you OK with gentrification too? I see it all the time where immigrant communities get pushed out when the yuppies move in. My point is there’s a lot of selective outrage. And I’ll call it out all the time.

“Chinese buying up real estate should be outlawed”. Listen to yourself. You sound ridiculous. Then we’ll ban the Iranians and then the Indians.

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