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Green Ontario Fund

ON - new Gov't rebates for insulation heat pumps, etc

  • Last Updated:
  • Jan 22nd, 2019 2:52 pm
Deal Expert
User avatar
Feb 11, 2007
21248 posts
25711 upvotes
GTA
muffin_man wrote: Selectively choose contractors to be on the approved list sure promotes competition and fair market. Poor people do rent home and pay utilities. Again they should be limiting the offer to houses with low insulation to begin with. So glad this incredibly stupid and wasteful program is gone.
The gov't didn't choose contractors. The contractors has to apply and meet standards/qualifications/training.
Renter can't make changes to the home like windows and insulation. Are you suggesting the rich landlord should have gotten the rebate?
If it's such a bad deal? Why did you waste your money on it?
R60 is the standard. Anything under R40 is low insulation.
Almost all of the program's money went back into the local economy, so hardly a waste there either.
If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.
Sr. Member
Dec 3, 2010
701 posts
608 upvotes
Toronto
engineered wrote: The gov't didn't choose contractors. The contractors has to apply and meet standards/qualifications/training.
Renter can't make changes to the home like windows and insulation. Are you suggesting the rich landlord should have gotten the rebate?
If it's such a bad deal? Why did you waste your money on it?
R60 is the standard. Anything under R40 is low insulation.
Almost all of the program's money went back into the local economy, so hardly a waste there either.
According to my energy cost savings calculation the ROI beats any other low risk investment thanks to the government subsidy. But unlike some people I won't be singing it's praises just because I made few dollars a year. This money could be put in much better use for a house with r20 or lower.
Do your math on r40 to r60, the improvement is so marginal that it's only worth it from financial point of view after incentive.
This program completely misses the environmental point by ignoring current condition of houses and requiring unnecessarily high insulation values, especially for windows.
The only green part of this scam is the money that all the contractors are making.
Sr. Member
Sep 11, 2011
810 posts
1065 upvotes
Toronto
The real scam here is that we are all still essentially paying this carbon tax yet the program is cancelled. I doubt the provintial government has the power to stop this tax right away without winning in court, which could take months to years.

All the while, the tax will continue to be collected to pay for those lawyers instead of funding this program.
Sr. Member
Dec 18, 2003
607 posts
140 upvotes
Do anyone remember if you need to sign up for anything for the rebate from the home owner side? My contractor is willing to back date the contract to Monday since he still have access to the green on backend to submit claims until August.
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
12695 posts
7861 upvotes
Paris
ApocDeals wrote: The real scam here is that we are all still essentially paying this carbon tax yet the program is cancelled. I doubt the provintial government has the power to stop this tax right away without winning in court, which could take months to years.

All the while, the tax will continue to be collected to pay for those lawyers instead of funding this program.
30 million bucks in court costs and 18 months minimum for a government with 40% of the vote. How the feck is that respecting my money?
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
12695 posts
7861 upvotes
Paris
fallengod wrote: Do anyone remember if you need to sign up for anything for the rebate from the home owner side? My contractor is willing to back date the contract to Monday since he still have access to the green on backend to submit claims until August.
At some point very very soon no one will be able to backdate. My guess is that we will need to pre-submit all contracts in motion by end of June at the latest, but more likely this Friday.
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
12695 posts
7861 upvotes
Paris
muffin_man wrote: According to my energy cost savings calculation the ROI beats any other low risk investment thanks to the government subsidy. But unlike some people I won't be singing it's praises just because I made few dollars a year. This money could be put in much better use for a house with r20 or lower.
Do your math on r40 to r60, the improvement is so marginal that it's only worth it from financial point of view after incentive.
This program completely misses the environmental point by ignoring current condition of houses and requiring unnecessarily high insulation values, especially for windows.
The only green part of this scam is the money that all the contractors are making.
I DIYed mine from 24 to 65ish a number of years ago and I found an immediate difference. Was during a cold snap so was easy to measure.
Deal Addict
Oct 9, 2011
1530 posts
963 upvotes
GTA
Britex wrote: All this resulted in needless grief for consumers while enriching the contractors who jacked up prices. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
+1
Deal Addict
Aug 31, 2006
4578 posts
2489 upvotes
So basically a big middle finger to folks like retirees who tried to save and put down a deposit for their custom windows - the immediate impact is that they will either back out and lose their deposit (since no rebate If the windows are not manufactured and installed by Aug. 31) or pay much more than what they signed up for. Immediate result of this election is thousands yanked from Ontarians' wallets.

Anyone with half a brain would have phased it out properly if they were planning to cancel it. That's what happens when you elect a town fool with no platform.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Aug 15, 2007
2048 posts
2740 upvotes
Canada
mangoman wrote: So basically a big middle finger to folks like retirees who tried to save and put down a deposit for their custom windows - the immediate impact is that they will either back out and lose their deposit (since no rebate If the windows are not manufactured and installed by Aug. 31) or pay much more than what they signed up for. Immediate result of this election is thousands yanked from Ontarians' wallets.

Anyone with half a brain would have phased it out properly if they were planning to cancel it. That's what happens when you elect a town fool with no platform.
Completely agree with you. You also forgot the part about electing a pusher.
Deal Fanatic
May 4, 2014
5217 posts
7141 upvotes
Toronto, ON
mangoman wrote: Anyone with half a brain would have phased it out properly if they were planning to cancel it. That's what happens when you elect a town fool with no platform.

The cut off date is Aug 31, is that not an adequate phase out period(>2 months from now)? What's adequate phase out for you? 4 years?
Deal Addict
User avatar
May 24, 2008
3488 posts
1532 upvotes
Toronto
muffin_man wrote: According to my energy cost savings calculation the ROI beats any other low risk investment thanks to the government subsidy. But unlike some people I won't be singing it's praises just because I made few dollars a year. This money could be put in much better use for a house with r20 or lower.
Do your math on r40 to r60, the improvement is so marginal that it's only worth it from financial point of view after incentive.
This program completely misses the environmental point by ignoring current condition of houses and requiring unnecessarily high insulation values, especially for windows.
The only green part of this scam is the money that all the contractors are making.
It would be a little bit easier to take you seriously if you stopped exaggerating with the word "scam" all the time. Cut the hyperbole and maybe we can have a serious discussion instead.

Cap and trade is not a tax - let's make that clear once and for all. It's a system designed to make polluters actually pay for the pollution they create. It's an attempt at getting polluters to pay for externalities that they would otherwise get to benefit from for free. What is coming now from the feds is an actual carbon tax, which is a heavy-handed actual tax that will just hit everyone with no payback benefits like with the GreenON program.

Now, whether GreenON was designed for maximum energy efficiency returns is absolutely something we can discuss. But, it most definitely was not a scam, and it is definitely a mistake to just scrap it together with cap and trade, since we will no longer have a mechanism in place to hold polluters financially accountable and environmental destruction can continue unchecked. Ford has no environmental plan whatsoever. He has no plan for getting Ontario to build an industry in the renewable energy space. His plan seems to focus on just propping up the traditional industries (auto manufacturing, resource extraction) which shows a complete lack of vision for the future. He is going to drag the province backwards by decades and with trade disputes hitting Ontario hard, and a leader with no sense of dynamic and innovative thinking, we are in for a a dark period.
Glazers Out!
Deal Addict
User avatar
Apr 17, 2016
2836 posts
2775 upvotes
Ottawa
er34er34 wrote: The cut off date is Aug 31, is that not an adequate phase out period(>2 months from now)? What's adequate phase out for you? 4 years?
Well, there are obviously people who won't get the work done in time because the contractors are extra busy (as a direct result of the GreenON program!). Even 4 months or 6 months would have been better? (I don't know how the government would assess how many people have work contracted to happen beyond the current cut off date, but they would have based the current cut off date on...something?)
I am a current Public Mobile customer and Koodo customer.
Deal Fanatic
May 4, 2014
5217 posts
7141 upvotes
Toronto, ON
Little Tim wrote:
Now, whether GreenON was designed for maximum energy efficiency returns is absolutely something we can discuss. But, it most definitely was not a scam, and it is definitely a mistake to just scrap it together with cap and trade, since we will no longer have a mechanism in place to hold polluters financially accountable and environmental destruction can continue unchecked.
I benefited directly from GreenON rebates, in that sense it's not a scam.

Cost of insulation before GreenON topped out at $1-$1.1/sq ft. What was it during GreenON? $1.3-1.5/sq ft were common because installers jacked up prices from the demand and got rich from it, and they will pay more taxes. Did you consider also the government was receiving 13% in taxes for all of the insulation and window project completed under GreenON? Yet we are still going down a death spiral of debt with more taxes on the horizon.
Newbie
Jun 17, 2018
34 posts
10 upvotes
Copy and paste from GreenOn Home Page:

The following programs are closed:

Residential:
•GreenON Installations
•GreenON Solar Rebates
•GreenON Modern Wood Heating Pilots
•GreenON Rebates: ◦Air Source Heat Pumps
◦Ground Source Heat Pumps
◦Insulation
◦Windows
◦Solar
◦$100 Smart Thermostat

•GreenON Social Housing

If you’re already signed up for a rebate, it will be honoured if:
•You have a signed work agreement with a participating contractor for work that will be completed by August 31, 2018
•Your rebate application is submitted by September 30, 2018

I also called GreenON today. The Sept 30 is the cutoff on rebate application submission. After that, still have time to address any application deficiencies. All you need are to make sure your contractor have the job done by Aug 31 and submit it before Sept 30.
Member
Aug 22, 2005
327 posts
245 upvotes
Ontario
This is such total BS. Giving a cutoff THE SAME DAY as you announce the cancellation of the program? You have to be kidding me...I'm busy, people are busy...sometimes it take a few hours to see what's going on in the news. I was working on a few adjustments to an insulation quote I had done last week and get an email after 10 pm that I need to have the agreement signed and to them by 11:59 pm last night. I only saw the email this morning. Seriously?
Sr. Member
Aug 16, 2013
624 posts
309 upvotes
Toronto
cappaj wrote: I'm not really qualified to comment on what the right choice is, maybe someone else can say. However, if you haven't signed anything with the contractor yet, then I think you'll have to count on paying the full price, as you won't qualify for the rebates anymore.
Understood. However, I have taken quotes already and if I sign the section below, I think it should work. No?
Deal Addict
Aug 31, 2006
4578 posts
2489 upvotes
Spoken like someone who has no idea how businesses are run. The current wait for window orders that have been placed are somewhere in the 16 wk range to have them delivered and installed (usually the wait would not be so long,but because of the demand with the program, the wait is longer). So, folks who put down a deposit in good faith are now being cheated.

Nobody asked for 4 years to phase it out. Get your head out of Ford's... sandbox.

er34er34 wrote: The cut off date is Aug 31, is that not an adequate phase out period(>2 months from now)? What's adequate phase out for you? 4 years?
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
12695 posts
7861 upvotes
Paris
er34er34 wrote: The cut off date is Aug 31, is that not an adequate phase out period(>2 months from now)? What's adequate phase out for you? 4 years?
Custom windows can be 12 weeks. If you ordered before the election you could be screwed. Phase out time was too short. Insulation could be quoted and sprayed same day.

They should have said all contracts should be uploaded by Friday and installed by October.

Right now, window guys are screwed. Insulation guys could take orders on August 31, backdate to June 19, and do the work same day. The government, and GreenOn, don’t understand the concept of LEAD TIMES FOR CUSTOM GOODS which all windows are.

We are fine as our lead times were never insane, but some Verdun customers were told August in April. So they have been selling for 6 extra weeks and none of those installs will happen in time.
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
12695 posts
7861 upvotes
Paris
Ungie wrote: This is such total BS. Giving a cutoff THE SAME DAY as you announce the cancellation of the program? You have to be kidding me...I'm busy, people are busy...sometimes it take a few hours to see what's going on in the news. I was working on a few adjustments to an insulation quote I had done last week and get an email after 10 pm that I need to have the agreement signed and to them by 11:59 pm last night. I only saw the email this morning. Seriously?
Even worse... I checked the contractor portal at 12:42 pm yesterday and there was nothing and then again shortly after 5pm and the June 19 date was on there. So they didn’t even put that out until yesterday afternoon.

It should have been Friday, and all contracts are pre-loaded.

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