Real Estate

GTA house market

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Deal Addict
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Mar 27, 2007
2721 posts
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bobclair wrote: No way that those listing prices were any where close to reality. What was the going market rates in beginning of 2020 for those properties ?
I'm looking at: Sauga: Mineola, Port Credit, Lorne Park, Clarkson, East Oakville: Joshua Creek and East Lake. The areas vary in price from street to street but in general sold prices have been crazy in 2021.

Homes in those areas were going for asking in aug 2020, Oct 2020. Now they are in bidding wars it seems. Hopefully supply goes up to match the demand.
Deal Addict
Jan 13, 2021
1106 posts
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RichmondCA wrote: Things I've noticed, condos in the 600k-700k range are the no man's land condos, worst price range to shop right now because 90% of people are looking for the same thing. Same with detached, the 1.2 - 1.6 market is the detached no man's land (in a good area) where it's a full out scrap to get in. It's rough out there. Detached under 1.2M is the bazaar/flea market battle, survival of the fittest effectively. Makes for a good circus tho.
The freehold townhouse under or right at 1M is the most vicious one right now. People are probably ready to pull guns on each other when it comes to freehold townhouses.
Sr. Member
Jul 4, 2018
526 posts
468 upvotes
thelastword wrote: I have this framed and hanging on the wall just to remind myself that house prices can only go up.

Image
Which year/decade listings are these?
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Jan 26, 2017
877 posts
28 upvotes
KW
Panic buying started with Grocery and now Homes Astonished Face
Deal Addict
Jun 23, 2006
1782 posts
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Toronto
Hey everyone...just wanted to hear an opinion...

if buying would you choose newer house with smaller lot (29-40ft) or older home with larger lot (40ft+)?

also, whats your opinions on split levels? they seem really cool. and unique compared to cookie cutter standard houses...some even have 5 floors.
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Nov 5, 2018
2916 posts
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Toronto
mohaken wrote: Hey everyone...just wanted to hear an opinion...

if buying would you choose newer house with smaller lot (29-40ft) or older home with larger lot (50ft+)?
If they are in the same area, I would take the older home.

In 20 years, all of the homes will be old anyways. And you can always renovate this older home in stages over your stay there. I am a GTA bull and I think space will be valuable going into the future. My house is old too and in 10 years or so I plan to do a big renovation.
Called the bottom.
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Jun 23, 2006
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CondoMan98 wrote: If they are in the same area, I would take the older home.

In 20 years, all of the homes will be old anyways. And you can always renovate this older home in stages over your stay there. I am a GTA bull and I think space will be valuable going into the future. My house is old too and in 10 years or so I plan to do a big renovation.
Thanks! yes i can agree in land space being valuable going forward.. but as for age of the home will that affect appreciation? lets say i buy an older 3BR home now for 800-900K. will appreciation be as good as buying a newer 3BR home on a small lot?
Deal Addict
Jan 13, 2021
1106 posts
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mohaken wrote: Hey everyone...just wanted to hear an opinion...

if buying would you choose newer house with smaller lot (29-40ft) or older home with larger lot (40ft+)?

also, whats your opinions on split levels? they seem really cool. and unique compared to cookie cutter standard houses...some even have 5 floors.
If in the same neighbourhood, always choose bigger lot when it comes to detached. The "newness" of interior finishes wanes within the first 5 years (sometimes even less). You can always make the older house newer, but you can never make the smaller lot bigger.

Appreciation in the long term favors the bigger lot, but this year people have decided that new Ikea cabinets +new appliances and some generic paint-job makes a shed worth over $1 million. Don't fall for that hype.
Deal Expert
Feb 22, 2011
16517 posts
21855 upvotes
Toronto
mohaken wrote: Hey everyone...just wanted to hear an opinion...

if buying would you choose newer house with smaller lot (29-40ft) or older home with larger lot (40ft+)?

also, whats your opinions on split levels? they seem really cool. and unique compared to cookie cutter standard houses...some even have 5 floors.
Larger lot, and I wouldn't hesitate either, newer homes have such a high premium it's completely unwarranted.
Deal Addict
Mar 2, 2017
3839 posts
7793 upvotes
Toronto/Markham
mohaken wrote: Hey everyone...just wanted to hear an opinion...

if buying would you choose newer house with smaller lot (29-40ft) or older home with larger lot (40ft+)?

also, whats your opinions on split levels? they seem really cool. and unique compared to cookie cutter standard houses...some even have 5 floors.

My personal view: always go for the neighbourhood with character/bigger lot even if it's an older house. I feel long run this has more appreciation and repurposing potential. That said I am the minority and there is no right or wrong as cases can be made for both, most people prefer newer cookie cutter homes with the line of thinking it's newer, less things to go wrong, less maintenance, they don't spend much time outside, yard is irrelevant, etc. Whatever floats your boat.

That said back splits/side splits are awesome, having the different levels is great in many respects, but admittedly it leads to a lot of wasted space because of limitations in layout and sometimes it's impractical. It's a personal decision, it's not like the wasted space is within a 400 sq. ft. condo where every inch counts. In 2,000 sq. ft. a bit of wasted space isn't that noticeable.

Also of note is many of them only have half basements + crawl spaces. so you lose some space there as well (not all, depends on area).
Last edited by RichmondCA on Jan 19th, 2021 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RE Broker
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Oct 30, 2009
313 posts
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i don't agree with lot of posts about quality of newbuilds vs older houses. It really depends on the builder and how they built the house, whether new or old. My friend just moved into a newly built 2020 townhouse which is just 10 metres away from a busy road. You could hear cars fly by when you open the front door but once that's closed, inside it's dead quite. I have also been inside older houses that are now in front of busy roads, and they were not silent. It really depends on how your home is built. My current house is 30 years old and the original hardwood floors are rock solid, all materials used are high quality and you can't hear anything outside. But my previous house was also 25-30 years old and the materials were cheap and floors creaked and you could hear if someone was speaking in the backyard even if your windows were closed.

It's like that newer car vs older car debate where people claim older cars were better built and more safe. Perhaps they used more 'solid' materials but I wouldn't say those withstood the test of time.. older cars I owned were heavy and rusted easily, newer cars of the same age, not so much..
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Jan 13, 2021
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mohaken wrote: also, whats your opinions on split levels? they seem really cool. and unique compared to cookie cutter standard houses...some even have 5 floors.
Since childhood I've always loved inefficient backsplits and side-splits with crazy crawlspaces and weird layouts. It's what makes a house feel like a home. It was the reason I bought my old backsplit house. Massive crawlspace, ginormous attic and really funny layout that you wouldn't find in anything new.

I seem to find something interesting and historic in the house everyday
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Nov 2, 2020
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synthetic1 wrote: The freehold townhouse under or right at 1M is the most vicious one right now. People are probably ready to pull guns on each other when it comes to freehold townhouses.
I agree I think there is just so many people in this price bracket and they are desperate to get whatever they can
Deal Expert
Feb 22, 2011
16517 posts
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Toronto
soul_survivor wrote: i don't agree with lot of posts about quality of newbuilds vs older houses. It really depends on the builder and how they built the house, whether new or old. My friend just moved into a newly built 2020 townhouse which is just 10 metres away from a busy road. You could hear cars fly by when you open the front door but once that's closed, inside it's dead quite. I have also been inside older houses that are now in front of busy roads, and they were not silent. It really depends on how your home is built. My current house is 30 years old and the original hardwood floors are rock solid, all materials used are high quality and you can't hear anything outside. But my previous house was also 25-30 years old and the materials were cheap and floors creaked and you could hear if someone was speaking in the backyard even if your windows were closed.

It's like that newer car vs older car debate where people claim older cars were better built and more safe. Perhaps they used more 'solid' materials but I wouldn't say those withstood the test of time.. older cars I owned were heavy and rusted easily, newer cars of the same age, not so much..
I think these are generic comments about quality. It will still depend on other factors like if it's all brick or siding. Old homes also need to be maintained well and newer better windows. Many new materials are better but not all.
Deal Addict
Mar 2, 2017
3839 posts
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Toronto/Markham
soul_survivor wrote: i don't agree with lot of posts about quality of newbuilds vs older houses. It really depends on the builder and how they built the house, whether new or old. My friend just moved into a newly built 2020 townhouse which is just 10 metres away from a busy road. You could hear cars fly by when you open the front door but once that's closed, inside it's dead quite. I have also been inside older houses that are now in front of busy roads, and they were not silent. It really depends on how your home is built. My current house is 30 years old and the original hardwood floors are rock solid, all materials used are high quality and you can't hear anything outside. But my previous house was also 25-30 years old and the materials were cheap and floors creaked and you could hear if someone was speaking in the backyard even if your windows were closed.

It's like that newer car vs older car debate where people claim older cars were better built and more safe. Perhaps they used more 'solid' materials but I wouldn't say those withstood the test of time.. older cars I owned were heavy and rusted easily, newer cars of the same age, not so much..
100% correct

Older homes aren't necessarily built better. You go to war homes in East York with mould issues and no insulation for decades, you have homes from the 70's during the copper shortage built cheaply that used aluminum wiring, etc. The generalization of quality based strictly on old vs. new is too simplistic.
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Jun 23, 2006
1782 posts
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synthetic1 wrote: Since childhood I've always loved inefficient backsplits and side-splits with crazy crawlspaces and weird layouts. It's what makes a house feel like a home. It was the reason I bought my old backsplit house. Massive crawlspace, ginormous attic and really funny layout that you wouldn't find in anything new.

I seem to find something interesting and historic in the house everyday
exactly...like for example a 5 level side split...its soo unique. ive seen some that have walk out basements, it almost seems like two houses in one, as the upper floors are 3 levels, and basements are split into two.. also for the seperated spaces they offer lots of privacy, such has home theatres or work areas lots of privacy for kids or WFH, ect.

as for the crawl space what is that? so far most side splits ive seen all floors seem to be great livable spaces.
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Apr 5, 2013
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keenland
soul_survivor wrote: i don't agree with lot of posts about quality of newbuilds vs older houses. It really depends on the builder and how they built the house, whether new or old. My friend just moved into a newly built 2020 townhouse which is just 10 metres away from a busy road. You could hear cars fly by when you open the front door but once that's closed, inside it's dead quite. I have also been inside older houses that are now in front of busy roads, and they were not silent. It really depends on how your home is built. My current house is 30 years old and the original hardwood floors are rock solid, all materials used are high quality and you can't hear anything outside. But my previous house was also 25-30 years old and the materials were cheap and floors creaked and you could hear if someone was speaking in the backyard even if your windows were closed.

It's like that newer car vs older car debate where people claim older cars were better built and more safe. Perhaps they used more 'solid' materials but I wouldn't say those withstood the test of time.. older cars I owned were heavy and rusted easily, newer cars of the same age, not so much..
your 2 comparisons are very valid....as it shows that your 30+ build was old school build (better imo) than the 25-30 year old house that was probably planned in the late 80's then built in the 90's during the crash...at that time, builders started using less quality to save costs and create a cost point that their product could sell at....more siding, less real brick, vinyl, less tiles more carpet less wood chipboard instead of plywood, cheaper windows roofs etc all to save on costs so they can sell and make money in that market.
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Jan 13, 2021
1106 posts
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mohaken wrote: exactly...like for example a 5 level side split...its soo unique. ive seen some that have walk out basements, it almost seems like two houses in one, as the upper floors are 3 levels, and basements are split into two.. also for the seperated spaces they offer lots of privacy, such has home theatres or work areas lots of privacy for kids or WFH, ect.

as for the crawl space what is that? so far most side splits ive seen all floors seem to be great livable spaces.
Part of the appeal of the property I bought was the separate side-entrance (not a walk-up) that essentially allows the house to be split into 3 separate units. All I'm missing is a small kitchenette on the middle floor. Crazy rental potential as long as Toronto's retrofitting enforcement laws remain lax (easy $4500). I don't plan on doing it, but it's there if I need to.

Always buy a house with a separate entrance to the basement. It's very important in this market.

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