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Has anyone tried "Backyard Orchard Culture" in Canada?

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  • Mar 30th, 2022 11:06 am
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Newbie
Sep 9, 2021
49 posts
50 upvotes

Has anyone tried "Backyard Orchard Culture" in Canada?

This is a method of high density fruit planting developed by a nursery in California. Basically you stuff up to 4 trees, 18 inches apart, into a hole, of the same kind but different variety (so like 4 different plums). You would prune them aggressively to ensure they do not get too tall, branch appropriately, and have airflow in the middle. SO instead of a giant tree you risk your safety climbing up a ladder, you maintain it around 8 feet tall.

Reason for this is if you follow traditional methods, you get one giant tree that fruits for a week, which would overwhelm you with fruit. BOC means you have smaller, manageable trees, and because you have different varieties, you would have fruit throughout the summer instead of a week or two.

I've only come across people doing this in California with success, which is much warmer and sunnier than southern Ontario. I wonder if anyone had any success with this approach here? Those "pick your own" apple orchards here do follow a similar philosophy, with rows of small apple trees spaced very close together. But I'd like more than just apples, I have a decent sized yard and would like clumps of plum, pear, asian pear.

This article gives a good overview: https://deepgreenpermaculture.com/backy ... d-culture/

The other alternative is a 4-in-1 tree, which also requires some maintenance but the downside is you can't choose your variety, and I assume 1 tree would not produce as much fruit.
18 replies
Member
User avatar
Nov 24, 2014
384 posts
298 upvotes
Toronto, ON
Would it work if you just graft different branches onto a shared trunk?
Newbie
Sep 9, 2021
49 posts
50 upvotes
dieseldub wrote: Would it work if you just graft different branches onto a shared trunk?
Never explored this option, how hard is it?
Member
May 27, 2007
206 posts
23 upvotes
ON
It could potentially work though aim to have the same root stock. The other issue is the trees will compete for resources so they may not last as long depending on the root stock you start with. Also, depending on the fruit, it can take 4-8 years to get the initial fruit.

In short, it's a financial / time investment that isn't guranteed to pay out - I'd look at it as a hobby.
Deal Addict
Apr 26, 2003
2761 posts
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Thanks OP for the article. I sent it to my wife who's researching fruit trees for our backyard. The house had a cherry and a pear tree ages ago but they were long beyond their fruit bearing years and we ended up cutting them down because one was half dead and the other one was just taking up key space in the backyard.
Deal Addict
Dec 19, 2015
4373 posts
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Calgary, AB
I don’t see why it wouldn’t work. The key is going to be choosing the varieties that are best suited for your climate.

Just be prepared to prune a lot. I prune my espaliers 2-3 times a year, quite often removing a lot of material.

The other thing to remember is going to be cost. If you can source young bare root trees it’ll be cheaper, but if you’re planning on going to a garden centre and spending $150 a tree it’ll get expensive quickly.
Newbie
Sep 9, 2021
49 posts
50 upvotes
hozer wrote: It could potentially work though aim to have the same root stock. The other issue is the trees will compete for resources so they may not last as long depending on the root stock you start with. Also, depending on the fruit, it can take 4-8 years to get the initial fruit.

In short, it's a financial / time investment that isn't guranteed to pay out - I'd look at it as a hobby.
Yeah it is definitely a hobby. Fruit just tastes so much better when it's fully ripe, plus there are so many varieties you can't find in store because they just don't last long enough.
exrcoupe wrote: Thanks OP for the article. I sent it to my wife who's researching fruit trees for our backyard. The house had a cherry and a pear tree ages ago but they were long beyond their fruit bearing years and we ended up cutting them down because one was half dead and the other one was just taking up key space in the backyard.
Good luck! I picked up a book from the library called "Landscaping with Fruit" by Lee Reich that has a lot of unique suggestions on top of all the regulars. Things like medlar, hardy kiwi, linden berry, nanking cherry. I love quince but never see it at the supermarket, so I might get one of those too.
Deal Guru
Jul 7, 2017
10217 posts
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SW corner of the cou…
Don't forget the pollinators, unless your neighgbourhood is full of them already.
I smile when I see container ships sailing past my house laden with stuff made in China
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Sep 27, 2006
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Not so easy there Ma…
thriftshopper wrote: Don't forget the pollinators, unless your neighgbourhood is full of them already.
Those four legged furry, black, red and brown-striped pollinators from the neighborhood ought to be all over this idea!
Member
Feb 26, 2017
285 posts
135 upvotes
You'll hate it when squirrels destroy your fruits but you can't do anything. Some mornings, you walk out to your yard and find that squirrels already pull down like half of the fruits on the tree but they only ate a few. On occasions, raccoons may pay a visit at night and leave broken branches for you to see in the morning. Birds aren't bad at all. Bugs are also another thing ruining your fruits. Warps creates holes in your tree ripen fruits that you are about to harvest. I don't know how farmers can keep their fruits like perfect until harvest.
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Sep 27, 2006
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Not so easy there Ma…
Figman2 wrote: You'll hate it when squirrels destroy your fruits but you can't do anything. Some mornings, you walk out to your yard and find that squirrels already pull down like half of the fruits on the tree but they only ate a few. On occasions, raccoons may pay a visit at night and leave broken branches for you to see in the morning. Birds aren't bad at all. Bugs are also another thing ruining your fruits. Warps creates holes in your tree ripen fruits that you are about to harvest. I don't know how farmers can keep their fruits like perfect until harvest.
Growing tomatoes I found the squirrels were impeccable about finding the biggest and best tomato closest to being ripe, no matter how difficult to spot and were relentless at it. Any sort of barrier was of course no obstacle.
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Jun 26, 2019
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bussy123 wrote: Never explored this option, how hard is it?
From most people I've spoken with, the grafted multi variety trees are ok for short term, but long term have issues.

So let me try and do this in a concise manner (wall of text warning).

In my front yard, besides lower shrubs and other plantings, I have the following:

2 espalier honey crisp apple trees.
1 semi dwarf empire apple tree.
1 dwarf pink lady apple tree.
1 semi dwarf or dwarf (cant remember) spartan apple tree.

I also have a red oak, which is young, and about 18ft tall now, this may become an issue with shade, and there is a maple tree in the right of way boulevard.

(for reference my lot is only 45ft wide with a 2 car driveway on it, so likely could fit more in any backyard, but depends on sun. My backyard gets insufficient sun for fruit trees.

Anyways, its been relatively good, as others have said, squirrels and one year wasps have been an issue. In some years when the squirrels were going nuts on our apples, we just put some mesh bags around the fruit and that protected them.

All in all, its been a good experience, lots of people are interested in the espaliered trees which run parallel to the sidewalk, and its been a fun experience/activity to do with the kids and for them to learn about stuff.

So years the yields have been terrible, but if I had to guess it was due to me pruning incorrectly or at the incorrect time, and therefore the trees decided to try and grow more as opposed to flower. The trick for smaller trees is generally to trick them hormonally to produce fruit. So its a bit trickier compared to bigger trees which you can just let grow and then do their thing.

All my trees cost either $50 or $60 each, and I think most were bought from sherridan. We were going to espalier our own, then we went to sheridan one day and saw them for $50 each, and we bought them instantly. Honey crisp too.

Anyways, hopefully that helps, I'm by no means and expert but would be happy to answer any questions I can. I think I've had the espaliers and empire ones planted for at least 6 or 7 years now. All trees are alive and healthy, just fruit production can be hit or miss depending on how much I neglect pruning.
Newbie
Sep 9, 2021
49 posts
50 upvotes
SubjectivelyObjective wrote: From most people I've spoken with, the grafted multi variety trees are ok for short term, but long term have issues.

So let me try and do this in a concise manner (wall of text warning).

In my front yard, besides lower shrubs and other plantings, I have the following:

2 espalier honey crisp apple trees.
1 semi dwarf empire apple tree.
1 dwarf pink lady apple tree.
1 semi dwarf or dwarf (cant remember) spartan apple tree.

I also have a red oak, which is young, and about 18ft tall now, this may become an issue with shade, and there is a maple tree in the right of way boulevard.

(for reference my lot is only 45ft wide with a 2 car driveway on it, so likely could fit more in any backyard, but depends on sun. My backyard gets insufficient sun for fruit trees.

Anyways, its been relatively good, as others have said, squirrels and one year wasps have been an issue. In some years when the squirrels were going nuts on our apples, we just put some mesh bags around the fruit and that protected them.

All in all, its been a good experience, lots of people are interested in the espaliered trees which run parallel to the sidewalk, and its been a fun experience/activity to do with the kids and for them to learn about stuff.

So years the yields have been terrible, but if I had to guess it was due to me pruning incorrectly or at the incorrect time, and therefore the trees decided to try and grow more as opposed to flower. The trick for smaller trees is generally to trick them hormonally to produce fruit. So its a bit trickier compared to bigger trees which you can just let grow and then do their thing.

All my trees cost either $50 or $60 each, and I think most were bought from sherridan. We were going to espalier our own, then we went to sheridan one day and saw them for $50 each, and we bought them instantly. Honey crisp too.

Anyways, hopefully that helps, I'm by no means and expert but would be happy to answer any questions I can. I think I've had the espaliers and empire ones planted for at least 6 or 7 years now. All trees are alive and healthy, just fruit production can be hit or miss depending on how much I neglect pruning.
The semi dwarfs, do you prove to control height? If not, how tall are they?

And how much spacing between each tree?
Deal Addict
Jun 26, 2019
2130 posts
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bussy123 wrote: The semi dwarfs, do you prove to control height? If not, how tall are they?

And how much spacing between each tree?
My empire semi dwarf I let get to about 10ft tall, and then started stopping further growth. The spartan is about 9ft now, and I've been somewhat limiting its size, but I will likely let it go a bit more.

The honey crisps are spaced about 5ft apart, and the empire is about 6ft from a honey crisp, but slightly out of line.

The spartan and pink lady are closer to my house, and they are probably 10ft apart from each other, with a number of perennials in between. My pink lady is about 6ft tall, and I was debating adding another little one into the mix of the perennial which would put those 3 in a row.
Newbie
Sep 9, 2021
49 posts
50 upvotes
SubjectivelyObjective wrote: My empire semi dwarf I let get to about 10ft tall, and then started stopping further growth. The spartan is about 9ft now, and I've been somewhat limiting its size, but I will likely let it go a bit more.

The honey crisps are spaced about 5ft apart, and the empire is about 6ft from a honey crisp, but slightly out of line.

The spartan and pink lady are closer to my house, and they are probably 10ft apart from each other, with a number of perennials in between. My pink lady is about 6ft tall, and I was debating adding another little one into the mix of the perennial which would put those 3 in a row.
Good information thank you. I might to bigger spacing because I think the 18 inches might be too tight. Probably a row of a few trees 5-6 ft apart might work.

I have many apple orchards within 10 min drive from here that let you pick your own fruit, so I might try my hand at growing plums, plumcots and a peach tree first and see how it goes.
Member
Feb 26, 2017
285 posts
135 upvotes
fergy wrote: Growing tomatoes I found the squirrels were impeccable about finding the biggest and best tomato closest to being ripe, no matter how difficult to spot and were relentless at it. Any sort of barrier was of course no obstacle.
The squirrels seem smart and have good memory. One year I bought black bird nets and surrounded the tree. The squirrels went around to observe, found just a little gap and sneaked inside to harvest my fruits. Day after day, they come and go with the same path that they seem to remember. Too bad they don't use their brain to advance their race. I saw a research documentary on octopus. Octopus has memory and intelligence and can learn, but it's lifespan is too short to pass the knowledge on to next generation.
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Jul 5, 2004
27438 posts
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This is very common in rural areas. I have fruit trees all over my property, plus a massive vegetable garden.

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