Computers & Electronics

Have I outgrown consumer wifi?

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  • Nov 6th, 2020 1:45 pm
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[OP]
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Aug 28, 2001
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Have I outgrown consumer wifi?

I'm currently in a 3500sq/ft home with approx 150 devices. Approx half are wifi (all those free echo dots add up). Using Google Nest wifi with 2 Routers and 2 Access Points.

I'm running into problems with Google's DHCP Server and Samsung products. (Duplicate IP's.. google it for more info). Aside from that devices go offline every now and then and I'm rebooting the system every week or so.

Options are TP-Link EAP245 or Ubiquiti. House is completely ethernet wired for backhaul. Looking for stability over speed, as Bell FTTN is only 50Mbps down.

Thoughts?
44 replies
Jr. Member
Nov 22, 2018
170 posts
64 upvotes
Mississauga - ON
do a network scan and see what other (if any) wifi networks you are picking up and what channels they are on

Getting swamped with neighbor's wifi is a common problem if you are on the same channels. Are you running 2.4 and 5ghz at the same time?

I have Ethernet for everything in my house which can support it - only phones and tablets are on wifi for this very reason
[OP]
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Aug 28, 2001
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EndeavourX wrote: do a network scan and see what other (if any) wifi networks you are picking up and what channels they are on

Getting swamped with neighbor's wifi is a common problem if you are on the same channels. Are you running 2.4 and 5ghz at the same time?

I have Ethernet for everything in my house which can support it - only phones and tablets are on wifi for this very reason
Unfortunately, neighborhood congestion is unavoidable. Nest Wifi automatically combines both 2.4GHz and 5GHz. Add the fact that Bell Fibe uses a 5Ghz WAP for their TV receivers and multicast.
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Mar 31, 2017
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manually force a static IP into some of the devices?
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Aug 22, 2011
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Center of Universe
Time to consider a business Internet solution.
Jr. Member
Nov 22, 2018
170 posts
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Mississauga - ON
I'd set static IP for every Ethernet connected device for sure. But it's not feasible to do it on mobile devices.

You're probably going to have to look at a more capable wifi setup with multiple access points each hard wired back to a switch with that many concurrent devices
Sr. Member
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Nov 9, 2005
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Same situation as OP, hitting 130+ devices (3700 sqft - light bulbs, pot lights, cameras, ceiling fans. Smart hub every room)

Tried Aimesh and it didn't do the trick. Not sure why people posted about this being a waste and try to threadcap, maybe they don't like the smart home theology.

OP if you find any solution please share.
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not every device needs to talk to each other. Stuff like Cameras can be on its own subnet so that if they get hacked, your real network that contains your laptop computers arent also compromised. What Im saying is this - you got 2 routers, both have DHCP server capabilities so go create 2 subnets. Do you really want or need your cellphones on the same network as your laptops? What are the chances you need to stream a movie onto that tiny screen, or move files from the laptops to the cellphones? I would put them together with the IP camera, thermostats, on a different subnet.
[OP]
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badOne wrote: manually force a static IP into some of the devices?
This solved the DHCP problem with Samsung devices. I now reserve for most of my devices where possible.
[OP]
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Aug 28, 2001
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badOne wrote: not every device needs to talk to each other. Stuff like Cameras can be on its own subnet so that if they get hacked, your real network that contains your laptop computers arent also compromised. What Im saying is this - you got 2 routers, both have DHCP server capabilities so go create 2 subnets. Do you really want or need your cellphones on the same network as your laptops? What are the chances you need to stream a movie onto that tiny screen, or move files from the laptops to the cellphones? I would put them together with the IP camera, thermostats, on a different subnet.
It's easier for everyone at home. Tell google home to cast something to the TV? Or share files between your iPhone and Macbook.

Your suggestion is a good one. The latest EERO update uses multiple ranges as Homekit compatible routers need to support > 255 devices according to Apple. 255.255.252.0 is default now.
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Sep 12, 2007
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That's a lot of devices, my place is 1/3 of yours but there are more than 1/3 of your devices. Like others everything that can be wired is wired and the rest of devices and IoT devices are wireless. I will soon be getting a ubiquiti UAP-AC-PRO to install in the middle of the ceiling on top level (I have attic access) and if need be a small in wall ap (also from ubiquiti) for the basement. I have meraki right now but the license is expiring soon and I'm no longer interested in the cloud management feature (although I have to say their support has been great).

I would suggest you take a similar top down approach, maybe check out UAP-AC-LR, and o e or two other units if you have access to get wiring into those spots.

If your current equipment supports it, check the band steering options and test some different settings.
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Jan 12, 2017
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My place is quite a bit smaller - I'm floating around 60 devices with 2 EAP245's and 1 EAP225 (all POE from a single tplink POE switch). I have an Edge Router handling traffic and DHCP - I've assigned about 35 static ip's. I also have the AP's setup with two wifi networks - one is 2.4ghz only (it seems pretty much all smart home devices work much better when connected to a 2.4ghz only network), the other is dualband w/band steering on.

Devices include costco wifi switches, lg tv, samsung soundbar, random wifi switches, doorbells, wyze/eufy cams, various wifi thermostats (7), multiple computers. The only device I have some connectivity issues with is the Ikea hub - changes in the network seem to cause this device to disappear entirely. I don't believe this is a problem with the network.

Speed is great - I regularly cast to multiple groups of chromecast audio devices without issue. I seem to recall the TP-link Omada AP controller dashboard indicating that I'm floating around 10-40% load (depending on the ap), so I might pickup one more.

Have used Ubiquiti ap's before as well. The ac lite is garbage, don't bother with that ap. Frequent disconnects with some devices (in particular the Nest doorbell), poor wireless throughput (relatively speaking). Perhaps the higher end ones are better, but they will put you at a much higher pricepoint than the EAP 245.

GL
*note, I checked and definitely not all at 50% load.
enforcerviper wrote: I'm currently in a 3500sq/ft home with approx 150 devices. Approx half are wifi (all those free echo dots add up). Using Google Nest wifi with 2 Routers and 2 Access Points.

I'm running into problems with Google's DHCP Server and Samsung products. (Duplicate IP's.. google it for more info). Aside from that devices go offline every now and then and I'm rebooting the system every week or so.

Options are TP-Link EAP245 or Ubiquiti. House is completely ethernet wired for backhaul. Looking for stability over speed, as Bell FTTN is only 50Mbps down.

Thoughts?
[OP]
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Aug 28, 2001
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@Chickennbeans I'm interested in your setup. If I were to change it would be very similar. What version of the EAP245 are you using and how many devices per AP? Did you fine tune the settings (power output, channels etc), or leave it default?
Jr. Member
Apr 19, 2014
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Markham, ON
WOW.
150 devices in a single home?
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Mar 31, 2017
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trying to configure just 15 devices on my custom tomato router is already problematic, when dealing with wifi mac filters. Dont have enough energy or patience to do 100+
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badOne wrote: trying to configure just 15 devices on my custom tomato router is already problematic, when dealing with wifi mac filters. Dont have enough energy or patience to do 100+
I have one of these in a box; their speed is limited (i.e. if you ever get anything over 160Mb down, it won't be able to run it). That was my experience with my asus RT-N16, and after doing some reading it seems that is the case on the newer ones too. That's why I got an ER-X router. But when I had slower speed (and way less devices) I loved the tomato setup!
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vodka wrote: I have one of these in a box; their speed is limited (i.e. if you ever get anything over 160Mb down, it won't be able to run it). That was my experience with my asus RT-N16, and after doing some reading it seems that is the case on the newer ones too. That's why I got an ER-X router. But when I had slower speed (and way less devices) I loved the tomato setup!
RT-16 is too slow for that speed of your ISP package. It isnt a tomato issue. I can easily get 300Mbit/sec on a 4 year old linksys model, but it much more powerful than the Rt-16
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Feb 29, 2008
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Chickennbeans wrote: My place is quite a bit smaller - I'm floating around 60 devices with 2 EAP245's and 1 EAP225 (all POE from a single tplink POE switch). I have an Edge Router handling traffic and DHCP - I've assigned about 35 static ip's. I also have the AP's setup with two wifi networks - one is 2.4ghz only (it seems pretty much all smart home devices work much better when connected to a 2.4ghz only network), the other is dualband w/band steering on.
Same thing. I use two TP link EAPs and a Ubiquiti Edge router X. I use the Omada controller software on a Linux PC and everything is one big network. The software decides which AP and which band (2.4 or 5) to assign.
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Oct 7, 2007
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enforcerviper wrote: I'm currently in a 3500sq/ft home with approx 150 devices. Approx half are wifi (all those free echo dots add up). Using Google Nest wifi with 2 Routers and 2 Access Points.

I'm running into problems with Google's DHCP Server and Samsung products. (Duplicate IP's.. google it for more info). Aside from that devices go offline every now and then and I'm rebooting the system every week or so.

Options are TP-Link EAP245 or Ubiquiti. House is completely ethernet wired for backhaul. Looking for stability over speed, as Bell FTTN is only 50Mbps down.

Thoughts?
The TP-LInks or Ubiquiti will work really well in your case, especially since you can do wired connections.

I have 3 EAP-225 running in a 2800 sqft house plus a basement, and another outdoor one in the garage. All working flawlessly without much need for intervention. I have about 50 clients on Wifi.

You would still need a router and a controller though. You can use a computer for those or a dedicated device.
There's a sucker born every minute.
Newbie
Jun 6, 2018
98 posts
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Networks have a max of 255 devices. That includes the router and all switches.
Looks like you are looking to upgrade to a L2 router,switch and APs . This will allow vlans.
Vlans create separate networks (each with max 255 devices) and rules can be created to keep them separated or allow cross vlan talk. Typically iot devices (lights bulbs/smart switches) don't need to access anything other then internet as there has been incidents of them being hacked.
Ubiquiti is just 1 of many manufacturers that offer l2 network devices, although I also like their products.
Please keep in mind however, level 2 switches WILL be necessary at any point in the network layout where more then any 1 vlan is present, for the simple reason that the vlan tag part of the data will be stripped/removed by less capable switches.
I suggest googling vlans to self educate their value.

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