Shopping Discussion

Have questions about diamonds and engagement rings, ASK ME ANYTHING...

Poll: What is most important in your ONLINE diamond shopping experience?

  • Total votes: 586. You have voted on this poll.
Price
 
332
57%
Selection
 
42
7%
Reputation
 
153
26%
Information
 
29
5%
Addons (warranties, trade up policies, free cleanings)
 
6
1%
Location (Canada, U.S.)
 
4
1%
Customer Service, purchase assistance
 
20
3%
Member
Nov 15, 2011
201 posts
205 upvotes
NORTH YORK
my 10 yr anniversary is coming up and im looking at purchasing an eternity ring. since the diamonds are smaller (< 0.2) i was wondering how you would order the 4C to get the biggest bang for the buck?
i had requested: excellent cut/H-J/VS2-SI1 range and my jeweler came back with 016ct VS-SI G-H very good cut.
i havent actually seen the ring in person yet.

Was wondering at this size how important excellent vs VG cut?

if it was a tennis bracelet, would the 4C order change since the diamonds would be smaller?

thanks.
Deal Guru
Feb 7, 2017
14535 posts
11744 upvotes
Eastern Ontario
@thediamondshopper

I read this thread regularly as a pastime / educational experience

I have learned a lot. And I thank you for that, and your ongoing contribution to RFD
g5spark wrote: my 10 yr anniversary is coming up and im looking at purchasing an eternity ring. since the diamonds are smaller (< 0.2) i was wondering how you would order the 4C to get the biggest bang for the buck?
i had requested: excellent cut/H-J/VS2-SI1 range and my jeweler came back with 016ct VS-SI G-H very good cut.
i havent actually seen the ring in person yet.

Was wondering at this size how important excellent vs VG cut?

if it was a tennis bracelet, would the 4C order change since the diamonds would be smaller?

thanks.
Like this RFDer out of interest I would like to know more about multi diamond settings
Smaller diamonds, baguettes, and even pavé diamonds

Cuz sometimes you are looking for an Non Engagement Ring (feature stone) purchase
Like an anniversary gift
[OP]
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jul 29, 2013
1213 posts
490 upvotes
Toronto
g5spark wrote: my 10 yr anniversary is coming up and im looking at purchasing an eternity ring. since the diamonds are smaller (< 0.2) i was wondering how you would order the 4C to get the biggest bang for the buck?
i had requested: excellent cut/H-J/VS2-SI1 range and my jeweler came back with 016ct VS-SI G-H very good cut.
i havent actually seen the ring in person yet.

Was wondering at this size how important excellent vs VG cut?

if it was a tennis bracelet, would the 4C order change since the diamonds would be smaller?

thanks.
Hi, great question

With small diamonds they are never seen by a major lab like GIA as it would be cost prohibitive so you really have to trust and rely on you vendor and hopefully they have the ring appraiser by an "independent" appraiser that is a Graduate Gemologist from one of the major programs.

Usually from my experience small diamonds, anything under .3ct, are grouped in ranges. For color you would have D-F, F-G, G-I, and some times I-J. Lower than that I havent seen much of and even I-J arent readily available. After I-J or in place of you have Top light brown and top top light brown. Below that even typically makes its way to alot of the mall stores. For clarity you can find individual grades like SI2, SI1, VVS1 ect. But VS2-SI1 are very common. With color the price differences are usually negligible at the wholesale end with D-F adding about 7-10% over G-I. Clarity is usually priced in alot more mainly because of the misinformation that clarity makes a diamond sparkle more, you would be surprised how many end purchasers believe this. Cut is very tricky as very few accurately grade cut for small diamonds. There are Ideal hearts and arrows diamonds that return 90-100 percent of the light, Excellent cut where you will start to see some light leakage in the table and around the edges, Very good cut where in most cases the diamond returns less than 50% of light, and then good cut which I tend to call a potato because there is minimal light return. Where you will really notice a difference in cut is when you look at the diamonds out side of jewelry store lighting, they will likely look larger for the same size, brighter and sparkle more.

Another benefit to well cut small diamonds is that they require less carat weight to achieve the same face up size. As well they are much easier for a setter to set because they have more uniform proportions so the end ring will look cleaner.
When I first started with diamonds I did a comparison of ideal vs VG/EX that I could show our clients to justify the 10% increase in price for ideal cut diamonds. Its a bit dated but I attached it below.

Typically from my experience I like to suggest going with Ideal cut if available (hard to find as mainly high end suppliers use these) for clarity I like SI-SI2 or SI1-VS2 and for color Usually F-G as the price difference is minimal. For larger diamonds say .15ct and larger I order a bit
differently as Excellent cut become a bit more cost effective, FG and SI1-VS2.

Hope that is helpful.
Images
  • melee compare.jpg
  • ha melee show sm.jpg
Newbie
Sep 5, 2007
40 posts
18 upvotes
GTA
@thediamondshopper


1.015 ct G VS2 A CUT ABOVE® from White Flash $7,712
https://www.whiteflash.com/pdf/104108734002.pdf
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamon ... 178485.htm

1.02 ct G VS2 Craft by Infinity Diamond $ 8,051
https://dealer.craftedbyinfinity.com/pu ... 2aapgr.pdf
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10952

What do you think of these 2 diamonds? I was leaning toward the second one until I saw the inclusion in the ASET.

Thanks
[OP]
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jul 29, 2013
1213 posts
490 upvotes
Toronto
crazysword wrote: @thediamondshopper


1.015 ct G VS2 A CUT ABOVE® from White Flash $7,712
https://www.whiteflash.com/pdf/104108734002.pdf
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamon ... 178485.htm

1.02 ct G VS2 Craft by Infinity Diamond $ 8,051
https://dealer.craftedbyinfinity.com/pu ... 2aapgr.pdf
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10952

What do you think of these 2 diamonds? I was leaning toward the second one until I saw the inclusion in the ASET.

Thanks
Definitely both very well cut diamonds. Both look like fair VS2s as well certainly eye clean.
I would say both are very comparable in terms of quality so I would go for the lower priced option.
I will say though that both are priced quite high (+$700-1000usd) for the specs even for ideal cuts, more in line with what you would expect for a branded cut, which to some degree they are.
This premium accompanies the expertise of these companies in telling and showing you that these diamonds are very well cut. The main decision on your end is if you find value in that.
Newbie
Sep 5, 2007
40 posts
18 upvotes
GTA
@diamondshopper
Thanks for your input

I was leaning toward the second one until I saw this.

https://imgur.com/yxOxlqB
There's a visible inclusion under the ASET image.

It's suppose to be eye-clean so I probably won't see it normally without some sort of equipment. However, it just bothers me.
What do you think?
[OP]
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jul 29, 2013
1213 posts
490 upvotes
Toronto
crazysword wrote: @diamondshopper
Thanks for your input

I was leaning toward the second one until I saw this.

https://imgur.com/yxOxlqB
There's a visible inclusion under the ASET image.

It's suppose to be eye-clean so I probably won't see it normally without some sort of equipment. However, it just bothers me.
What do you think?
One important thing you should note is that the industry definition of eye clean is "no inclusions visible to the naked eye, from 8-10" (this varies from seller to seller) in the face up position, under ordinary lighting conditions. Hearts and arrows patterns are done from the bottom of the diamond so I woudn't include what you see as part of eye clean. As well a hearts and arrows scope by no means accurately reflects clarity as its intended purpose is to show optical symmetry by exposing certain facets to light. I think you might be using the hearts and arrows image for the wrong purpose!

Best suggestion email the seller and ask them if the diamond is eye clean, they are both very honest businesses.
Newbie
Sep 5, 2007
40 posts
18 upvotes
GTA
@diamondshopper
Thank you for the explanation. I didn't know that.
Both vendors have confirmed they are eye-clean. At this point, I think the bigger concern is whether it is "mind clean" for me.
I checked the 360 video on AGS's website and I was able to see the inclusion under magnification.

https://imgur.com/hG8vbBC

I have circled it. Do you think it's actually a concern? Or it really doesn't matter since I won't be able to see it in real life?

Based on your experience do you think the Craft by infinity diamond offers better performance for a similarly graded A Cut Above diamond from WF? They are both coined "superideals" over at pricescope.

Thanks again for your assistance.
[OP]
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jul 29, 2013
1213 posts
490 upvotes
Toronto
crazysword wrote: @diamondshopper
Thank you for the explanation. I didn't know that.
Both vendors have confirmed they are eye-clean. At this point, I think the bigger concern is whether it is "mind clean" for me.
I checked the 360 video on AGS's website and I was able to see the inclusion under magnification.

https://imgur.com/hG8vbBC

I have circled it. Do you think it's actually a concern? Or it really doesn't matter since I won't be able to see it in real life?

Based on your experience do you think the Craft by infinity diamond offers better performance for a similarly graded A Cut Above diamond from WF? They are both coined "superideals" over at pricescope.

Thanks again for your assistance.
Hi,

Mind clean is something very subjective to ones own preferences. If it’s eye clean I think whether there is a concern is more of a question for your self if you are concerned with it.

I wouldn’t be able to offer any meaningful opinion on the difference between the two vendors as I run both a retail and wholesale business so I have never made a purchase from either. From what I know they are both great above board companies.

Maybe it would be beneficial to have a dialogue with both and see how they feel they differ from each other.

Good luck
Newbie
Nov 8, 2006
92 posts
1 upvote
Toronto
Hello - I'm in the market for a custom ring and just came across this very long and comprehensive thread. Thank you for doing this.

I'm finding that researching and choosing a jeweler so far has been a bit overwhelming. There are so many options in the Toronto area, and many of them have excellent online reviews. Some have suggested going to a wholesaler - is this recommended?

That being said, I was wondering if there are recommended wholesalers or custom jewelers in the Toronto area that you or others on this thread could personally recommend. And are you still in the business yourself?

Thanks in advance.
Deal Addict
Mar 8, 2006
1640 posts
125 upvotes
Beeton
the post just before yours is from Aaron and clearly says he runs both a retail and wholesale business so yes he is still in the business.

Aaron (thediamondshopper) who regularly posts and helps the RFD community should be your #1 choice. Great guy, vast knowledge, works within your budget and provides the best stone for your value.
[OP]
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jul 29, 2013
1213 posts
490 upvotes
Toronto
saigonv wrote: Hello - I'm in the market for a custom ring and just came across this very long and comprehensive thread. Thank you for doing this.

I'm finding that researching and choosing a jeweler so far has been a bit overwhelming. There are so many options in the Toronto area, and many of them have excellent online reviews. Some have suggested going to a wholesaler - is this recommended?

That being said, I was wondering if there are recommended wholesalers or custom jewelers in the Toronto area that you or others on this thread could personally recommend. And are you still in the business yourself?

Thanks in advance.
Hi,

Great question! and your very welcome!

The most important part in choosing some one to work with is deciding what your need from them.
For example, if you are fairly knowledgeable about diamonds and dont really care too much about the level of service your decision may be mostly about price.
If you dont know much you may want to work with some one who is able to help you navigate the process.

A business that wholesales diamonds typically does not work with the public and there is a requirement to purchase a certain number of diamonds at one time. This being said the term "wholesaler" is very loosely used with diamonds and in many cases they are
retailers if they are willing to take your business for just one ring. My suggestion is, rather than focusing on what they business calls them selves, wholesaler, retailer, custom jewelere ect. Focus on what price and level of service they are willing to offer.
Some retailers may be able to offer near wholesale prices depending on their business models and some so called wholesalers may be more expensive than a majority of retailers. As well the closer you tend to get to a true wholesale business the more the onus will be
on you to know exactly what you are looking for.

As I have mentioned a few times in this thread I dont give specific recommendations for sellers as I work in this space and my opinion would obviously be very biased. My best advice is to reach out to a number of different businesses and see what they have to offer and
compare that to what you feel best suits your budget and level of experience. Youll probably see that many businesses have good and bad reviews likely because not every business is the right fit for every one.

Good luck!
[OP]
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jul 29, 2013
1213 posts
490 upvotes
Toronto
aZn_Popcorn wrote: the post just before yours is from Aaron and clearly says he runs both a retail and wholesale business so yes he is still in the business.

Aaron (thediamondshopper) who regularly posts and helps the RFD community should be your #1 choice. Great guy, vast knowledge, works within your budget and provides the best stone for your value.
Thank you for the kinds words
Newbie
Dec 3, 2012
3 posts
NORTH YORK
Hey @thediamondshopper , I would love to hear your thoughts on the diamond below.

https://www.bluenile.com/ca/diamond-details/LD13741599

Thanks a lot!

Shape
Round
Cut
Ideal
Info
Colour
F
Info
Clarity
SI1
Info
Carat Weight
1.05
Fluorescence
None
Info
Length/Width Ratio
1.01
Info
Depth %
62.6%
Info
Table %
57.0%
Info
Polish
Excellent
Info
Symmetry
Excellent
Info
Girdle
Thin to Medium
Info
Culet
None
Info
Measurements
6.47 x 6.51 x 4.07 mm
Images
  • image0.jpeg
Sr. Member
User avatar
Jun 12, 2010
729 posts
158 upvotes
Vancouver
Hi all,

First - thanks @thediamondshopper for all of the work you've done in helping the RFD community. New to the ring-buying experience and this thread has been a godsend. Still working my way through the 150+ pages but it has already been a wealth of info.

Just a quick question to more seasoned shoppers: I plan on buying a centre stone from an online retailer. Do most just take this to a custom jeweller to finish off the rest of the setting / band, or where are they taking their prized centre stone to finish off? Second, any chance someone could ballpark a price on a Pavé style engagement ring, silver or yellow gold? Fully recognize that this depends on the number and quality of the individual diamonds but just wanted to get an idea.

Thanks all!

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