Green / Eco-Friendly

High Efficiency Condensing Gas Storage Tank Water Heaters

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[OP]
Member
Jan 12, 2009
319 posts
14 upvotes

High Efficiency Condensing Gas Storage Tank Water Heaters

I'm wondering if anyone installed a condensing gas storage-type water heater and got a rebate through the ecoEnergy program. They offer $375 which is matched by the Ontario government for this type of tank. The brochure states it must be 94% or better.

So far the only tanks I found that meet these specs are either commercial units or meant for space heating. They are more expensive than tankless units.
26 replies
Deal Addict
Dec 27, 2007
1074 posts
139 upvotes
Markham
These are quite expensive and are usually ment to be paired with a heat exchanger to act as a heat source. I have installed them in a few communities with coach houses where they are the source of potable water as well as heat.
[OP]
Member
Jan 12, 2009
319 posts
14 upvotes
Thanks for the info.

It boggles my mind that we are not all installing condensing hot water tanks since the technology has been around in furnaces for over 25 years.

I want to replace my tank with another tank, but feel silly putting in something that is only 80% efficient or less.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Feb 15, 2005
5773 posts
1289 upvotes
I have a direct-vent ultra high efficiency unit. I can't compare the savings since I bought it new with the house alongside a 90% furnace. Temperature recovery is pretty quick, though.
Deal Addict
Sep 1, 2003
1547 posts
10 upvotes
john_ertw wrote: Thanks for the info.

It boggles my mind that we are not all installing condensing hot water tanks since the technology has been around in furnaces for over 25 years.

I want to replace my tank with another tank, but feel silly putting in something that is only 80% efficient or less.
Hi John, just wondering what you ended up deciding on for a new water heater?

I'm renting a conventional 40 gallon tank from Reliance at the moment, costs me $11 a month.
I called them to see what my options are, they said the condensing tank would cost me around $60 a month which is just insane - the tankless units only cost $40 a month.

They also said the Direct Vent and Power Vent units are the same efficiency as the one I have now but they cost $20+ a month to rent. The only reason anyone would use them is if there is no chimney available (newer construction I guess?)

I had a couple quotes for tankless a few months ago and they were really high due to the location of my utility room and the size of the exhaust pipe needed, issues with clearance from doors/windows etc. I thought perhaps condensing tank would be a little cheaper but achieve similar gas savings.
Newbie
Oct 4, 2002
2 posts
Toronto
I am wondering the same...Has anyone installed a high efficiency unit that qualifies for the eco-energy rebate (e.g. 94% + efficiency)? If so, who did your install and how much was it?

Here's a list that was posted by NRCAN on Nov 30th of the tanks.

http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/residential/pers ... cfm?attr=4

I have called around a few places and not many places know about these high efficiency tanks...most just want to sell tankless.
Newbie
Dec 26, 2009
18 posts
bfoster wrote: I am wondering the same...Has anyone installed a high efficiency unit that qualifies for the eco-energy rebate (e.g. 94% + efficiency)? If so, who did your install and how much was it?

Here's a list that was posted by NRCAN on Nov 30th of the tanks.

http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/residential/pers ... cfm?attr=4

I have called around a few places and not many places know about these high efficiency tanks...most just want to sell tankless.
if a tankless is a cheaper option it might be better to go that route. anyone have information on a Bradford white m-ii-tw-75t6bn.
I cant find the efficiency of the tank. The customer wanted a tankless but if his current tank is a condensing unit, I don't see the point of replacing it since he is not renting and will not see a decent return on investment. plus his tank is only 5 years old. seems too soon to replace it.
Sr. Member
May 24, 2003
931 posts
43 upvotes
I would stay away from these units. I have serviced lots of Polaris units and they are not only extremely expensive but you do realize you will have no hot water or heat if and when the unit breaks down.
Newbie
Dec 26, 2009
18 posts
i believe this is why combo systems usually install 2 tankless side by side in case one breaks down.
[OP]
Member
Jan 12, 2009
319 posts
14 upvotes
pluto wrote: Hi John, just wondering what you ended up deciding on for a new water heater?
Sorry for the late reply as I forgot about this thread. I still haven't changed my tank, but I am planning to replace my tank with another conventional tank (vent out the chiminey). It seems that condensing tanks and tankless water heaters are too expensive and in my opinion the savings would never pay back the additional cost. Direct vent and power vented tanks are not more efficient than conventional so I don't see a strong argument to go that route especially since the installation costs would be much higher.
Newbie
Dec 26, 2009
18 posts
john_ertw wrote: Sorry for the late reply as I forgot about this thread. I still haven't changed my tank, but I am planning to replace my tank with another conventional tank (vent out the chiminey). It seems that condensing tanks and tankless water heaters are too expensive and in my opinion the savings would never pay back the additional cost. Direct vent and power vented tanks are not more efficient than conventional so I don't see a strong argument to go that route especially since the installation costs would be much higher.
only thing with direct vent is you wont have a constant chimney effect sucking air out of your house.
[OP]
Member
Jan 12, 2009
319 posts
14 upvotes
anil_cbr wrote: only thing with direct vent is you wont have a constant chimney effect sucking air out of your house.
This is true. I thought about it and figured that the extra installation costs are too much to justify a direct vent tank (it would require plumbing to move the location of the tank near an outside wall, and venting, as well as removing the existing b-vent that is currently used for venting the water tank).
Sr. Member
Aug 25, 2005
821 posts
79 upvotes
john_ertw wrote: Sorry for the late reply as I forgot about this thread. I still haven't changed my tank, but I am planning to replace my tank with another conventional tank (vent out the chiminey). It seems that condensing tanks and tankless water heaters are too expensive and in my opinion the savings would never pay back the additional cost. Direct vent and power vented tanks are not more efficient than conventional so I don't see a strong argument to go that route especially since the installation costs would be much higher.
Tankless units aren't that much more if you can source one online.
With the rebates, it is possible that that solution will be cheaper than getting a regular water heater (not sure how complicated your install would be though)
[OP]
Member
Jan 12, 2009
319 posts
14 upvotes
redac wrote: Tankless units aren't that much more if you can source one online.
With the rebates, it is possible that that solution will be cheaper than getting a regular water heater (not sure how complicated your install would be though)
Have you installed one? If so how is your experience?

I have done some reading and am turned off on the technology. Gas savings will be minimal (I used my summer gas bills when I only use gas for water heating and my BBQ) and even if those are cut in half it will not be noticable. I also didn't like the allowable temperature rise they provide (especially with the cold water intake in the winter) and the increased maintenance.
Sr. Member
May 24, 2003
931 posts
43 upvotes
john_ertw wrote: Have you installed one? If so how is your experience?

I have done some reading and am turned off on the technology. Gas savings will be minimal (I used my summer gas bills when I only use gas for water heating and my BBQ) and even if those are cut in half it will not be noticable. I also didn't like the allowable temperature rise they provide (especially with the cold water intake in the winter) and the increased maintenance.
I put one in my house and have installed a couple dozen in other homes as well. From my own personal experience, you dont get this done to save money. You will but the high costs of installing one completely negate any savings. The biggest benefit is constant hot water, and space savings. My house takes about 1 minute to get hot water up to the farthest tap from the unit.

it amuses me to see the thought pattern you have gone through. The high efficiency Polaris type units are extremely expensive and who instals this plus another tank as a back up is an idiot. Why bother spending the huge amount of money that theses units cost plus another tank? The only time I have EVER seen the twinning of water heaters is through a geothermal install. The power vented water heaters are about the same efficiency as the natural draft water heaters.

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