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Hill's j/d dog kibble

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[OP]
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Jan 28, 2014
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Hill's j/d dog kibble

Has anyone fed their dogs the j/d kibble? We have been feeding our dog Fromm Four Star for over 11 years and it has worked very well for him. He is 12 years and 2 months old.

However, he has mild arthritis. Actually we took him to see the vet as soon as the basic symptoms presented because we had a few other dogs with disc disease and were scared of what might happen. Plus we wanted to have his knees checked. His knees were perfect and his blood work is excellent. He is a dog who is inclined to let you know if he is in any discomfort - which can be a good thing.

We were put on Metacam for 2 weeks. Just in case of a stomach upset we were told to give him 10 mg of Pepcid 2 hours before the Metacam. We had no issues but did note that as it came close to the time of his Metacam dose that he was uncomfortable. But on day 4 he started to smile again which was great.

After the two week test of Metacam we were told to stop it and were started on Cartrophen injections - he will receive a series of 4 injections - today will be his third shot. I love this stuff. If all continues to go well he will not need to resume the Metacam which would be our preference due to the potential harmful effects on his kidneys. Also he is back to his former self with the shots.

We normally do not feed Hill's prescription food - except for keeping 2 cans of Hill's I/D on hand "just in case". So far except for feeding the cans to him post dental/gum surgery we have never had to use the I/D since he had the dog flu 11 years ago. We just keep replacing the cans as they expire.

One of my concerns about the j/d is that the first ingredient is corn. Our hounds did not have an issue with corn - the Spitz breed does. In truth though corn is only an issue for him in dog food. How a dog can eat anything without issue but have issues only with dog food is beyond me.

I would prefer to try a sample of the j/d before buying it - and I do know the cost of the full bag, but samples are not available at least not when I asked which was last week. I thought the 5 lb. bag of Fromm was expensive - $127 per month for the j/d s a lot considering his holistic cookies etc. etc.

He only weighs 25 lbs. hence the one bag a month. It could be worse.

Unfortunately Fromm does not make a joint food. The Missing Link went right through him but that was the skin formulation but over the years we tried it 3 times with the same result so I am hesitant to try The Missing Link joint supplement. I know that others have had the same issues. Then we have Dr. Maggie's joint tablets (thanks MrsPotato for the recommendation) and fish oil.

We are not to give him any supplements until post the Cartrophen shots - so we have another week.

I would appreciate any advice or first hand experience. Thanks.
17 replies
Sr. Member
Aug 16, 2011
840 posts
250 upvotes
Kitchener
you could just add a supplement, usually people add glucosamine and chondroitin (sp?). You can get dog specific ones or use people ones, you would have to search the net for dosing info though as I am not sure offhand.
[OP]
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Jan 28, 2014
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starrlamia wrote: you could just add a supplement, usually people add glucosamine and chondroitin (sp?). You can get dog specific ones or use people ones, you would have to search the net for dosing info though as I am not sure offhand.
Thanks for the reply. Our vet will tell us how much to give our guy. Her huge dog has bad arthritis and does eat the j/d - and has other joint supplement etc. He is a wonderful dog - quite the flirt. Fortunately, he does not have an issue with corn. Actually our dog does not have an issue with corn on the cob but only with corn in dog food....

I remember years ago Sasha's Blend was very popular as a supplement for dogs with arthritis - but I am not seeing it as much any more and I had always planned to use it just in case.

Our groomer's dogs also had arthritis but they could take The Missing Link for joints.

But things could be worse - he could have Patellar Luxation or a torn ACL (or worse and we have been there).

We are getting ready to go for shot number 3. Fortunately I do not have to give them yet. Since they are working I do understand that we will cease the shots post #4 and then see how it goes. If he at some point needs shots on a regular basis I will learn how to do them. I was afraid at first that the shot would have to go directly into the muscle and at a certain depth but it is just a shot given at his lower neck. The vet tech does it.

Thanks again.
Deal Addict
Nov 30, 2011
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GTA
A couple of years ago my dog's vet recommended we add Glucosamine / Chondroitin to his food on a regular basis. He's been getting Wellesse liquid Joint Movement Glucosamine ever since (it has glucosamine, condroitin, MSM and Hyaluronic Acid). He's over a Chocolate Lab mix (over 11 years old) and likes his hour plus daily walks. In the last year, he has slowed down a bit but does not seem to be in any major discomfort. Highly recommend adding something similar to every "older dog's" food.
Newbie
Aug 13, 2015
25 posts
2 upvotes
On the ocean
Vet here.

If you're switching your dog to J/D, you don't need to supplement with anything else like glucosamine or fish oil. Hill's Prescription Diet foods are all very high quality foods, and J/D is no exception. Now, that said, there is little if any scientific evidence that glucosamine supplementation makes an iota of difference - my hospital as a rule of thumb does not recommend glucosamine to clients, but we do stock and sell some as there is some demand for it, and we always tell customers up front that there is scant evidence it works. The fact that J/D seems to work well has little if anything to do with the glucosamine in the food, and more due to the fact that it is calorie controlled and contains therapeutic levels of Omega-3 fatty acids (weight loss / maintaining a healthy weight is about the single best thing you can do for an arthritic animal).

Here's a link to an article about glucosamine supplementation in dogs from the Veterinary Practice News, an industry newsletter. I figured it will be more useful to you than actual journal articles / research studies, as they're all behind a paywall that you likely don't have access to unless you're in research or academia.

http://www.veterinarypracticenews.com/F ... ttle-Risk/

Also, although your vet might not have samples of J/D to give out, they should offer a money-back guarantee through Hill's - one of the benefits of buying a high-end food like Hill's or Medi-cal is that if your pet won't eat the food, you don't think it's working, etc you can take it back to the place of purchase for a full refund.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Jan 28, 2014
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Toronto
bvit6667 wrote: A couple of years ago my dog's vet recommended we add Glucosamine / Chondroitin to his food on a regular basis. He's been getting Wellesse liquid Joint Movement Glucosamine ever since (it has glucosamine, condroitin, MSM and Hyaluronic Acid). He's over a Chocolate Lab mix (over 11 years old) and likes his hour plus daily walks. In the last year, he has slowed down a bit but does not seem to be in any major discomfort. Highly recommend adding something similar to every "older dog's" food.
Thank you very much - I will speak with my vet about this when we have an appointment post the 4th shot.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Jan 28, 2014
3469 posts
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atlanticcoaster wrote: Vet here.

If you're switching your dog to J/D, you don't need to supplement with anything else like glucosamine or fish oil. Hill's Prescription Diet foods are all very high quality foods, and J/D is no exception. Now, that said, there is little if any scientific evidence that glucosamine supplementation makes an iota of difference - my hospital as a rule of thumb does not recommend glucosamine to clients, but we do stock and sell some as there is some demand for it, and we always tell customers up front that there is scant evidence it works. The fact that J/D seems to work well has little if anything to do with the glucosamine in the food, and more due to the fact that it is calorie controlled and contains therapeutic levels of Omega-3 fatty acids (weight loss / maintaining a healthy weight is about the single best thing you can do for an arthritic animal).

Here's a link to an article about glucosamine supplementation in dogs from the Veterinary Practice News, an industry newsletter. I figured it will be more useful to you than actual journal articles / research studies, as they're all behind a paywall that you likely don't have access to unless you're in research or academia.

http://www.veterinarypracticenews.com/F ... ttle-Risk/

Also, although your vet might not have samples of J/D to give out, they should offer a money-back guarantee through Hill's - one of the benefits of buying a high-end food like Hill's or Medi-cal is that if your pet won't eat the food, you don't think it's working, etc you can take it back to the place of purchase for a full refund.
Thank you very much. Actually yesterday when we were at the vet's for shot #3 I was told that we would be able to return the J/D should our dog not be able to tolerate it. I know that some dogs can't tolerate it - and frankly the corn as the first ingredient was worrisome to me since we started him on the Fromm Four Star as a last recourse before trying a digestive enzyme. He has done so well on the Fromm, it is a shame that the company does not make a "joint" food.

Since we always follow our vet's advice we will most likely try the J/D (I guess we would have to mix it with the Fromm for the first few days).

We are both grateful that the arthritis is in the very early stages, despite our dog being 12 years old. We jumped the gun since we had several Dachshunds with the 2 Alphas requiring the horrible back/neck disc surgeries. Dachshunds ownership seems to be on the rise again - we just can't do it - either for us or the pups. But for us (especially me) an Alpha Dachshund is my dream dog. Our special two pups weighed 10 - 12 lbs. Biggest dogs we ever had.

I must say though that we never thought of the grooming issue since all of our Dachshunds were short-haired. The white hair-like fur is just wild but he is a good boy with a number of Eskie quirks!
Deal Fanatic
Apr 23, 2009
5154 posts
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South of Ottawa
Blanche, you may want to take a look at giving your dog tumeric. A couple of people I know swear by it for their dogs with joint issues.
[OP]
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Jan 28, 2014
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Beachdown wrote: Blanche, you may want to take a look at giving your dog tumeric. A couple of people I know swear by it for their dogs with joint issues.
Thanks, Beachdown. I will add tumeric to my list of possible joint remedies.
Deal Addict
Apr 25, 2011
1381 posts
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British Columbia
If your dog has issues with corn then don't give the food. There is no need to compromise on ingredients if you can feed a better and more suitable food for your dog and just add a few suppliments the the meal.

Overall I feel joint and senior foods are unnecessary... the levels of joint supplements are too low in the foods so it would be more beneficial to add supplements to the meal.

Most vets seems on the fence about glucosamine but I think anedotal evidence speaks for itself, both for pets and for humans. Also, glucosamine is best given as a liquid. At the very least try it for yourself. It won't hurt and may in fact help.
[OP]
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Jan 28, 2014
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Toronto
Karala wrote: If your dog has issues with corn then don't give the food. There is no need to compromise on ingredients if you can feed a better and more suitable food for your dog and just add a few suppliments the the meal.

Overall I feel joint and senior foods are unnecessary... the levels of joint supplements are too low in the foods so it would be more beneficial to add supplements to the meal.

Most vets seems on the fence about glucosamine but I think anedotal evidence speaks for itself, both for pets and for humans. Also, glucosamine is best given as a liquid. At the very least try it for yourself. It won't hurt and may in fact help.
Thanks, Karla. Knowing me, I will probably try one bag of the J/D food and see how it goes and of course I can return it for full credit should there be an issue. My vet's dog does extremely well on it, but then her pup does not have an issue with corn.

Our vet is not one to push Hill's food. She does like the Fromm food and until now has always said to keep feeding it to him since he does so well on it - actually we had planned to feed it to him throughout his life. If he does have an issue with the J/D food then she will be the first to suggest a Plan B. But at least if we try it we can say we did and his records will reflect it.

Our groomer's dog also had bad arthritis - she was able to take The Missing Link joint product - and ate the Fromm Four Star food. Post the 4th Cartrophen shot we will be speaking with the vet about how to handle the issue going forward. His arthritis at this point is mild (despite him being a major drama queen he does have some pain) but at age 12 he could have it a lot worse. In the end we might well stay with the Fromm and use supplements. I guess only time will tell. There is no doubt that our dog will let us know if he is at all uncomfortable. Or perhaps, the Cartrophen injections will be enough at the moment - with a few injections as needed down the road.

It is sad seeing so many of the pups pass away who were pups with our guy. I think there are only 3 left now - ours is the oldest by a year but looks young - I am sure it has something to do with being white and never maturing.
Deal Fanatic
Mar 12, 2010
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SW Ontario
I wouldn't feed that food long term. I don't find any of the veterinary food has great ingredients. We also use GI vet food on occasion if needed. Usually if a dog gets into something.

We usually feed ours Acana. The one we use is pretty high in glucosamine. I'm sure you can find a good quality food that is better than the vet stuff, even if you have to supplement like you say glucosamine is easy to find. A dog we are fostering seems to not like acana as it seemed to upset his stomach. So we are trying first mate (fewer ingredient). But it isn't as high in glucosamine.

Your story is very interesting. We have had a dog of roughly the same age as yours on metacam for years, daily, for arthritis in her back. It seems to help a lot, but still drags he back end sometimes. We have heard about this injection a few times but our vet has never suggested it. I think we will look into it next vet visit there.

What is the cost difference for getting the injection over metacam if you know?
Deal Addict
Apr 25, 2011
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Cartrophen is very expensive for the vial. Some vets sell it by the vial and others do injections in clinic since often one person can't use the whole thing by its expiry date. The vial only lasts something like 3 months after opening I believe and there's 10ml in it.

Metacam is quite expensive... If you get Apo-Meloxicam (generic version) it would be much cheaper than Metacam.
Deal Fanatic
Mar 12, 2010
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SW Ontario
Karala wrote: Cartrophen is very expensive for the vial. Some vets sell it by the vial and others do injections in clinic since often one person can't use the whole thing by its expiry date. The vial only lasts something like 3 months after opening I believe and there's 10ml in it.

Metacam is quite expensivw... If you get Apo-Meloxicam (generic version) it would be much cheaper than Metacam.
Really there is a generic? I wish vets would tell us that and offer it.
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Apr 25, 2011
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redgrandam wrote: Really there is a generic? I wish vets would tell us that and offer it.
Yes there is. There's a few alternative medications like Rheumocam as well. Metacam is the brand name.

Some people and vets believe it is superior and I've heard a few anecdotal stories of it working better but if cost is a concern, Apo-Meloxicam is half the price and may work just as well.
[OP]
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Jan 28, 2014
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Toronto
redgrandam wrote: I wouldn't feed that food long term. I don't find any of the veterinary food has great ingredients. We also use GI vet food on occasion if needed. Usually if a dog gets into something.

We usually feed ours Acana. The one we use is pretty high in glucosamine. I'm sure you can find a good quality food that is better than the vet stuff, even if you have to supplement like you say glucosamine is easy to find. A dog we are fostering seems to not like acana as it seemed to upset his stomach. So we are trying first mate (fewer ingredient). But it isn't as high in glucosamine.

Your story is very interesting. We have had a dog of roughly the same age as yours on metacam for years, daily, for arthritis in her back. It seems to help a lot, but still drags he back end sometimes. We have heard about this injection a few times but our vet has never suggested it. I think we will look into it next vet visit there.

What is the cost difference for getting the injection over metacam if you know?
Thanks, Redgrandam. I am really hoping that our guy will not be on the joint food long term. Chances are 50/50 he won't be able to tolerate it - or will only be able to tolerate it if it is mixed with the Fromm Four Star. We buy the Fromm from our groomer (so conveniently located in the same building with same entrance as the vet clinic) and since she has dealt with this issue many times with her dogs I know that she will order something in for us.

I do like the convenience of the Hill's I/D though - even though he only had to have it for tummy troubles 11 years ago - it is just nice to keep 2 cans on hand just in case because the little hoover eats everything in sight.

I know that both the Metacam and the Cartrophen are based on the pup's weight. Of course the only invoice I can't find is the one for the Metacam but I think based on giving him 12 kg of the soluble liquid from a 10 ml box cost something in the range of $60.00 for the 2 weeks he was on it. I do know that you are able to buy much bigger bottles of Metacam and that it does not have a preservative countdown once open. However, the Cartrophen does have an 8 month expiry date and must be kept in the fridge.

We did give him 10 mg of Pepcid from SDM 2 hours before the Metacam though just in case it upset his stomach - some dogs have issues while others don't. So really we have know way of knowing if the Metacam would have had any affect on this tummy.

Each shot of Cartrophen for our 25 lb. dog costs $36.00 plus tax. This is just the cost of the Cartrophen. Since he will only be receiving 4 injections at this point they are being given to him by a vet tech. I think that you can probably buy a bigger vial of the Cartrophen though especially if you are giving it to your pup at home.

Unlike Metacam the Cartrophen does not affect the pup's kidneys. Hopefully he will not have to go back on the Metacam. If he does he will have to have periodic blood work done (in addition to his annual "geriatric!" blood work). He is fortunate to currently have the blood work of a much younger dog.

I would definitely ask the vet about the Cartrophen. It may or may not be suitable for your dog but if it is it would be great.

The dragging of the back end is very frightening to me after the horrible back surgeries that 2 of our former Dachshunds endured. Of course this is why we ended up at the vet's so early when I suspected arthritis. I am an expert at the flipping of the foot with the Dachshunds.

Our dog is not on any form of topical tick or heartworm meds - thank heavens he is now on chewables for both since he has a thick double coat. The shot is given just above the back of his harness, not right into the muscle for which I am grateful in case I ever have to do it.

Our dog loves the taste of all meds so everything is hidden high up. This is all new to me. I am an expert of course in Dachshund disc disease.

Hugs to your pup.
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Apr 7, 2012
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Beachdown wrote: Blanche, you may want to take a look at giving your dog tumeric. A couple of people I know swear by it for their dogs with joint issues.
Agree with this.
I've heard and seen real success stories on this ... It's always worth a try.


Also, more details on hills food:

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues ... 490-1.html

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... anine-dry/

I'm personally not of fan of any kibble, as you never know what manufactures are really putting in it. Quality control is always an issue. Even though Hills is a 3 billion dollar co, I don't trust them. They spend a fortune on marketing, which is why they're so "successful".

I forgo that by feeding raw and/or Honest kitchen (which is dehydrated real food).

As we've discussed before, you know your dog better than anyone, including your vet. Go by what you see in his daily changes, Ect. You're the best determining factor on what's working and what isn't. At this point, at his age, it will be about management and not expecting results to reverse .... ❤️
[OP]
Deal Addict
Jan 28, 2014
3469 posts
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Toronto
MrsPotato wrote: Agree with this.
I've heard and seen real success stories on this ... It's always worth a try.


Also, more details on hills food:

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues ... 490-1.html

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... anine-dry/

I'm personally not of fan of any kibble, as you never know what manufactures are really putting in it. Quality control is always an issue. Even though Hills is a 3 billion dollar co, I don't trust them. They spend a fortune on marketing, which is why they're so "successful".

I forgo that by feeding raw and/or Honest kitchen (which is dehydrated real food).

As we've discussed before, you know your dog better than anyone, including your vet. Go by what you see in his daily changes, Ect. You're the best determining factor on what's working and what isn't. At this point, at his age, it will be about management and not expecting results to reverse .... ❤️
Agreed, at his age it will all be about management. The fact that we had an early diagnosis will not prevent the inevitable, but I am grateful that he made it to 12 without any mobility issues. I feel that I am keeping the pup diaries.

I guess we should be grateful that our dog has no problem letting everyone know that he is in pain - or might be if you step on his tail. He is a good boy though all things considered. He is a screamer, just in case! But he does not need to be muzzled by the groomer or vet which is good. And if you put a cookie jar in front of him or he sees a fridge then he forgets about everything but the possibility of food. Keeping his weight under control is no easy feat.

I have the tumeric listed on my sheet of possibles. I am very doubtful about our guy and the j/d - and long time use of the food. Although he is 12 there are some dogs of his breed that have lived to be 18 - 20 so I am taking that into consideration.

I hope your pups are well - love the picture of your Dobe.

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