Real Estate

Home buyer and status question.

  • Last Updated:
  • Aug 15th, 2020 2:38 pm
[OP]
Deal Addict
Feb 15, 2013
1027 posts
425 upvotes
Toronto

Home buyer and status question.

Hello

We applied for citizenship in 2019 and our oath ceremony was scheduled for March 2020. Due to COVID19 virus it got cancelled and no update since then. Our PR card is about to expire in August 2020.

We are in the market for our new home. Does the above situation affect us in buying new home? (mortgage, home registration etc

Regards,
17 replies
Newbie
Aug 2, 2020
95 posts
69 upvotes
I don’t think home purchases and your citizenship have any relevance. Only difference is whether or not you are a resident or not. In your case, you are a resident so I don’t think you’ll have any problems due to your delayed citizenship process.
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Mar 20, 2017
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Expired PR card only creates issues when you leave and enter the country. It does not affect your actual PR status, therefore non resident tax is not applicable for you.
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Feb 2, 2014
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GalvToronto wrote: Expired PR card only creates issues when you leave and enter the country. It does not affect your actual PR status, therefore non resident tax is not applicable for you.
I'm not familiar with this @GalvToronto. What happens if there PR card expires? Do they get something showing they are still PRs?

Lenders do ask for the PR card. I am assuming they will question it if it expires. I've never come across this.
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
Principal Broker - First Toronto Mortgage - MA (Ontario #13176, BC #X301007)
Real Estate Salesperson - Century 21 Innovative
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CdnRealEstateGuy wrote: I'm not familiar with this @GalvToronto. What happens if there PR card expires? Do they get something showing they are still PRs?

Lenders do ask for the PR card. I am assuming they will question it if it expires. I've never come across this.
It is not exactly a business of lender to identify PR status.
If lender wants non expired government IDs, he can refuse to accept PR card but there are still other options like driver license.

Determining PR status without ministry can be tricky...PR status exists regardless if your card is expired or not...PR status can only be lost on a Canadian border if officer determines you spent less than 2 out of 5 last years in Canada. In this case, you cannot enter Canada as PR anymore, but in some cases you still can enter Canada under tourist visa or as a citizen of visa-exempt country.
If person is already in Canada and PR status was never lost, all he has to do is to spend 2 years here without external travels and then reapply for new PR card.
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Jan 2, 2012
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GalvToronto wrote: PR status can only be lost on a Canadian border if officer determines you spent less than 2 out of 5 last years in Canada. In this case, you cannot enter Canada as PR anymore, but in some cases you still can enter Canada under tourist visa or as a citizen of visa-exempt country.
This is not quite correct. The border officer can just report you (section 44 report) for PR residency obligation default, but you can still enter Canada as a PR and will later need to appeal/challenge the decision to revoke PR status (perhaps there is some humanitarian reason, etc). While the appeal is happening you can even be issued temporary 1 year PR cards.

In addition to the border one can lose PR status any time they interact with IRCC, such as trying to renew a PR card or apply for a travel document (so either inside or outside of Canada), when one doesn't meet the residency obligation.
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Mar 20, 2017
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rob444 wrote: This is not quite correct. The border officer can just report you (section 44 report) for PR residency obligation default, but you can still enter Canada as a PR and will later need to appeal/challenge the decision to revoke PR status (perhaps there is some humanitarian reason, etc). While the appeal is happening you can even be issued temporary 1 year PR cards.

In addition to the border one can lose PR status any time they interact with IRCC, such as trying to renew a PR card or apply for a travel document (so either inside or outside of Canada), when one doesn't meet the residency obligation.
Yeah, you also can be rejected to get PR card renewed if you're mass murderer or terrorist. And you always have a workaround - illegal border crossing from USA.
Lenders really don't have to know all of it. And the whole story could be shortened to only my statement "Determining PR status without ministry can be tricky..."
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Jan 2, 2012
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gskn4u wrote: Hello

We applied for citizenship in 2019 and our oath ceremony was scheduled for March 2020. Due to COVID19 virus it got cancelled and no update since then. Our PR card is about to expire in August 2020.

We are in the market for our new home. Does the above situation affect us in buying new home? (mortgage, home registration etc

Regards,
You may want to consider applying for new PR cards while you wait for your citizenship ceremony. While having a valid PR card has nothing to do with your PR status in general, some companies may have their own internal policy of requiring a non-expired PR card to prove your PR status if it's requested for whatever reason. Off hand I have no idea if mortgage lenders, insurance companies, etc care about this. You can also try using your original COPR (Confirmation of Permanent Residence) paper you got when you first became a PR, to prove your status to anyone that asks.

With no valid PR card you may need to wait until you have a Canadian passport in hand before you can fly easily again. Travelling may mean going through the big hassle and annoyance of applying for a PR Travel Document from whatever country you're visiting in order to board a flight back to Canada without a valid PR card. Only exception would be if you're a US citizen. If you have absolutely no plans to travel then perhaps you can just wait it out until you get citizenship and Cdn passport.
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GalvToronto wrote: It is not exactly a business of lender to identify PR status.
It's 100% their business, they are lending you the money. The aren't obligated to approve you.

There are different mortgage products out there for PR and non-PR borrowers under the New To Canada program. For example, CMHC will allow 5% down for PRs, but min. 10% for non-PRs (assuming they have a work permit with a decent expiry date). The lender 100% can ask for proof of PR status, and if that can't be provided, decline your application.

I've never had a client who had their PR card expire before, so I'm not 100% certain if they will get approved.

You said it can be "tricky" to proof PR status without it. So I'm not 100% certain if OP can get a mortgage. I would have to ask a manger if the expired PR card is an issue.
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
Principal Broker - First Toronto Mortgage - MA (Ontario #13176, BC #X301007)
Real Estate Salesperson - Century 21 Innovative
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Mar 20, 2017
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CdnRealEstateGuy wrote: It's 100% their business, they are lending you the money. The aren't obligated to approve you.

There are different mortgage products out there for PR and non-PR borrowers under the New To Canada program. For example, CMHC will allow 5% down for PRs, but min. 10% for non-PRs (assuming they have a work permit with a decent expiry date). The lender 100% can ask for proof of PR status, and if that can't be provided, decline your application.

I've never had a client who had their PR card expire before, so I'm not 100% certain if they will get approved.

You said it can be "tricky" to proof PR status without it. So I'm not 100% certain if OP can get a mortgage. I would have to ask a manger if the expired PR card is an issue.
This issue is much deeper. Because Human Rights Act exists.
https://www.mccarthy.ca/en/insights/blo ... s-dont-ask

It is OK if you check credit history and all relevant documentation of a person...It. is OK if you use PR card as government-issued ID...
It is OK if you create requirements how long person is living and working in Canada.
But if you discriminate based on PR status, it is a dangerous path that can lead to Human Rights Tribunal with massive fines.
And the cases just start from you asking about having that status, not even waiting until you do some discriminatory actions.
You can refer to CMHC of course, but it is not a 100% relief...And last time I was reading CMHC pages, they did not look discriminatory based on PR status much...

Employers are well trained already and they never ask if PR status exists. Instead, they ask if you are authorized to work in Canada.
Landlords don't ask it as well, not because they don't wanna know, but because they know what happens if they ask...

Saying you reject something because you are unsure if PR status exists is not far away from saying you reject application because you are unsure if person has white skin.
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GalvToronto wrote: This issue is much deeper. Because Human Rights Act exists.
https://www.mccarthy.ca/en/insights/blo ... s-dont-ask

It is OK if you check credit history and all relevant documentation of a person...It. is OK if you use PR card as government-issued ID...
It is OK if you create requirements how long person is living and working in Canada.
But if you discriminate based on PR status, it is a dangerous path that can lead to Human Rights Tribunal with massive fines.
And the cases just start from you asking about having that status, not even waiting until you do some discriminatory actions.
You can refer to CMHC of course, but it is not a 100% relief...And last time I was reading CMHC pages, they did not look discriminatory based on PR status much...

Employers are well trained already and they never ask if PR status exists. Instead, they ask if you are authorized to work in Canada.
Landlords don't ask it as well, not because they don't wanna know, but because they know what happens if they ask...

Saying you reject something because you are unsure if PR status exists is not far away from saying you reject application because you are unsure if person has white skin.
I'm pretty sure this doesn't apply to mortgages, because there are literally different types of mortgage you would qualify for based on your status in Canada.

For example here is TD's mortgage page: https://www.td.com/ca/en/personal-banki ... plication/
You'll need to provide us with some details about yourself and your new home to complete your application.
Your status
All individuals on the mortgage must be either a Canadian citizen or have been approved for permanent residence status in Canada.


So you can't even apply if you aren't a PR or approved to be a PR.

And CMHC does "discriminate" based on status in Canada: https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/finance- ... -newcomers
Specific requirements
Non-permanent residents must be legally authorized to work in Canada (with a work permit). Mortgage loan insurance is limited to the purchase of a 1-unit property, owner occupied with a minimum down payment of 10%.


So if you're not a PR, you are limited in what you can buy and have more stringent borrowing criteria.

So status does matter when it comes to mortgage, and I am sure lenders will need to confirm your PR status before approving you for a mortgage. As I don't recall seeing any Human Rights cases linked to this issue, I think it's safe to say it doesn't apply here. If you can't satisfy the lender that you are a PR, then you may be forced to apply for one of the lender's non-resident mortgages if it exists.
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Mar 20, 2017
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rob444 wrote: I'm pretty sure this doesn't apply to mortgages, because there are literally different types of mortgage you would qualify for based on your status in Canada.
It is probably exactly the protection against the Act of such programs - to write it in advance as a clear requirement.
PR status is a protected ground, but when it is clearly written as a requirement, is an exception.
In any case it makes sense to be careful dealing with protected grounds. I don't envy to a lender who did not write it as a clear requirement and then suddenly pronounced the rejection based on status, as example.
Sometimes lenders feel they can ask more than they should, it is not unlimited power territory for them.
Member
Jun 6, 2014
294 posts
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Toronto, ON
Have not dealt with this before. But don't you need to keep your PR status valid to work in Canada?
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Jan 2, 2012
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icedtea365 wrote: Have not dealt with this before. But don't you need to keep your PR status valid to work in Canada?
Having your PR card expire, means absolutely nothing for your actual PR status. Same as if your passport expires, you are still a citizen. PR card is basically just an ID/travel document.

You maintain valid PR status until it's forcibly revoked from you by the government, it doesn't naturally expire.
Sr. Member
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Feb 16, 2017
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gskn4u wrote: Hello

We applied for citizenship in 2019 and our oath ceremony was scheduled for March 2020. Due to COVID19 virus it got cancelled and no update since then. Our PR card is about to expire in August 2020.

We are in the market for our new home. Does the above situation affect us in buying new home? (mortgage, home registration etc

Regards,
why don't you apply for PR Card renewal instead of just keep waiting for citizenship update ..at least you will have something going in parallel even PR card renewals are taking months and months so the more you delay this you are wasting time ..

For considering City for new house are you looking for cities like London and Kitchener instead of GTA ? i heard people from GTA are moving towards this cities due to WFH more possibility in future and price point.
[OP]
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Feb 15, 2013
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mattdominic wrote: why don't you apply for PR Card renewal instead of just keep waiting for citizenship update ..at least you will have something going in parallel even PR card renewals are taking months and months so the more you delay this you are wasting time ..

For considering City for new house are you looking for cities like London and Kitchener instead of GTA ? i heard people from GTA are moving towards this cities due to WFH more possibility in future and price point.
Thank you all..

As per IRCC customer support, PR card renewal is minimum 140 days.

We are looking within GTA only..
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gskn4u wrote: Thank you all..

As per IRCC customer support, PR card renewal is minimum 140 days.

We are looking within GTA only..
I heard they are doing video oath ceremonies during this time. For video or in person oaths, they should be sending everyone that was cancelled a make-up date.

Weigh this with time it will take to get a new PR card. If you have zero plans to travel in the next 6 months or so, I would just sit back and wait for oath ceremony then apply for passport (though who knows how long 1st passports are taking these days also).
Newbie
Mar 22, 2022
1 posts
I’m currently being denied a mortgage due to my husbands PR card being expired. All other IDs are valid. I feel we are being discriminated against

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