Automotive

Honda clarity Vs volt?

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Mar 1, 2005
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I considered both and the following Clarity advantages (in order of importance to me) made up my mind:
  • Seats 5 adults in comfort (fits my family perfectly) - the rear mid seat in the Volt is unacceptable
  • Larger trunk
  • Honda quality
  • Better quality interior
  • Much faster level 2 charging
I find the Volt generally better looking but generic
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radeonboy wrote: What I'm really excited about styling wise is the 2019 Honda Insight. However I think its only a hybrid, no word that its going to offer a BEV or PHEV version. If this came in a 200+km BEV version I would be all over it.

https://automobiles.honda.com/future-ca ... ght-hybrid
I wish Honda would release the Insight as a PHEV (or even 2G Leaf fighting EV), but everything I've read so far says this will basically be a Civic based hybrid, albeit a much more mature and luxurious looking one.
Maybe in few years they'll offer that option.

When I first saw this design, I though it was too bad they couldn't style the Clarity like this as well.
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redflag999 wrote: The EV is quiet and powerful and smoothly accelerates to 110kmh without any noise nor the engine starting. I turn on the HV (hybrid) mode and the engine comes on without much noise whereas when I tested the Volt, the high pitch whine is almost unbearable (some owner mentioned when the Clarity runs out of battery and using the engine only going uphill, the engine whines a lot but since I don't have a lot of opportunity to drive uphill in Ontario, it doesn't matter much to me).

If you have any questions regarding the Clarity, just ask
The issue with PHEVs is that the engine and battery have to work together. They use a CVT transmission because they can finely tune (infinitely vary) the gearing to match the optimum engine revs to the road speed. That means if the computer decides that it is more efficient to rev up the engine and charge the battery at the same time it reduces the gearing and ups the revs which makes the engine sound like it is over revving for the situation. This seems to happen alot on inclines when it seems to decide to climb the hill with battery charging. This happens on our C-Max Energi and it is not the best driving experience / sound. The power delivery on a BEV is much smoother as there is no CVT transmission and the electric motor(s) have a very wide rev range and instant torque. Its an advantages of BEVs over PHEVs from a driving experience viewpoint.

I saw a Clarity and a Volt parked together today and the Clarity is significantly bigger - back seat looked as roomy as a Camry. The only thing that struck me was that it seems a big car for a 1.5L engine. I know the electric motor kicks in to help overtaking and on hills but it is quite a bit smaller than say a 2.5L Camry Hybrid engine. Also an Atkins cycle engine is lower output than other gas engines. I would definitely recommend an extended test drive including highway.
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Feb 29, 2008
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I've driven the clarity. It's fine on the highway. Better than most crappy CUVs like the Ford Escape. The Volt is quicker off the line, much quicker probably until 50km/h. My guess is they have similar quarter mile times.

The description of PHeVs as CVTs is not accurate. The Volt uses a transmission with 5 distinct operating modes. The "drone" sound only comes on in one of the CS modes.

https://www.google.ca/amp/gmauthority.c ... -dive/amp/

Image

To call it a CVT is almost an insult.

I know nothing of the clarity transmission. But from my brief experience, I suspect it is very similar.
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Martin (deal addict) wrote: I saw a Clarity and a Volt parked together today and the Clarity is significantly bigger - back seat looked as roomy as a Camry. The only thing that struck me was that it seems a big car for a 1.5L engine. I know the electric motor kicks in to help overtaking and on hills but it is quite a bit smaller than say a 2.5L Camry Hybrid engine. Also an Atkins cycle engine is lower output than other gas engines. I would definitely recommend an extended test drive including highway.
Absolutely you need to test drive it to decide if the car is right for you. The reason I picked the Clarity over the Volt or the new Leaf is as follows

- The price of the 3 are basically the same or more than Clarity (I will not get the base S Leaf, only the SV, for the Volt, I need to Safety option or whatever Chevy call ACC/LKAS etc)
- It is much more spacious and luxurious than Volt or Leaf
- It is much more comfortable
- I don't need the faster acceleration of the Volt
- No range anxiety at all with the gas engine (My next car in mid-2020's will probably be an EV as I hope the range will be in the high 300's and charging speed and facility will be much improve over what we have now)
- The 76km EV range is enough for over 85% of my daily travel. The Volt will be over 90% but I can live with that
- Honda reliability compare to Chevy or Nissan (I know the Volt has very good reliability base on owner's report but still)
- I am happy with the acceleration of Clarity and with the way I drive, it will still on EV for almost all the time until it runs out of battery (even on highway)
- 2.5 hours L2 charging vs over 5 hours of the Volt

There are a lot of mis-information for the Clarity (even a lot of wrong information from reviews), so if you are considering the Volt, go test drive the Clarity before you decide. Also I have wrote a lengthy post on another thread titled '2018 Honda Clarity Plug in hybrid starts at 39900$ CAD before rebates' or something like that, putting down a lot of facts about the Clarity, check it out
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Martin (deal addict) wrote: The issue with PHEVs is that the engine and battery have to work together. They use a CVT transmission because they can finely tune (infinitely vary) the gearing to match the optimum engine revs to the road speed. That means if the computer decides that it is more efficient to rev up the engine and charge the battery at the same time it reduces the gearing and ups the revs which makes the engine sound like it is over revving for the situation. This seems to happen alot on inclines when it seems to decide to climb the hill with battery charging. This happens on our C-Max Energi and it is not the best driving experience / sound. The power delivery on a BEV is much smoother as there is no CVT transmission and the electric motor(s) have a very wide rev range and instant torque. Its an advantages of BEVs over PHEVs from a driving experience viewpoint.

I saw a Clarity and a Volt parked together today and the Clarity is significantly bigger - back seat looked as roomy as a Camry. The only thing that struck me was that it seems a big car for a 1.5L engine. I know the electric motor kicks in to help overtaking and on hills but it is quite a bit smaller than say a 2.5L Camry Hybrid engine. Also an Atkins cycle engine is lower output than other gas engines. I would definitely recommend an extended test drive including highway.
Did you confirm the Honda Clarity has a CVT? Are you guessing? The Honda Clarity does not have a "conventional transmission" and the engine only operates as needed.

Read about Honda's innovative two-motor hybrid technology and stop spreading the wrong information

2018 Honda Clarity Plug-In Hybrid Press Kit
http://hondanews.com/releases/2018-hond ... -press-kit

The Clarity Plug-In Hybrid utilizes Honda's innovative two-motor hybrid technology, which consists of (1) an ultra-efficient 1.5-liter DOHC i-VTEC® Atkinson-cycle in-line 4-cylinder engine coupled to a starter/generator motor; (2) an ultra-quiet 181-horsepower AC synchronous traction motor; and (3) a 17-kilowatt hour (kWh), 168-cell lithium-ion battery pack.

The Clarity Plug-In Hybrid runs primarily on its electric motor, using its Atkinson-cycle engine and starter/generator motor to generate electricity that is either supplied directly to the traction motor or used to recharge the 17 kWh lithium-ion battery pack.


"In Engine Drive mode, which is typically engaged when cruising at medium to high speeds, the Clarity functions as a parallel hybrid. A lock-up clutch connects the engine (always linked to the generator motor) and the traction motor to send power directly from the engine to the front wheels. Unlike most competing hybrid and plug-in hybrid vehicles, the Clarity does not use a conventional transmission, which saves weight and minimizes complexity while improving efficiency."
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Jan 15, 2006
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mr_raider wrote: Yeah. I have a volt. If I get clarity too have I gone off the deep end?

Seriously though. Do you have kids? What's the clarity like with car seats in the back.

Can you stuff the trunk with a stroller and luggage? Trunk pics would be nice.

One day I'll bring all the baby stuff to the Honda dealer and try it out.
When my kid was younger we had a orbit stroller and that fit in the 1st Gen Volt. It's tight but it fit with some room leftover, say 3-4 bags of groceries.

Wife still loves it, but the clarity is starting to sound like a Volt (good thing) but bigger and better finishes. Sounds pretty decent.
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tk1000 wrote: Did you confirm the Honda Clarity has a CVT? Are you guessing? The Honda Clarity does not have a "conventional transmission" and the engine only operates as needed.

Read about Honda's innovative two-motor hybrid technology and stop spreading the wrong information

2018 Honda Clarity Plug-In Hybrid Press Kit
http://hondanews.com/releases/2018-hond ... -press-kit

The Clarity Plug-In Hybrid utilizes Honda's innovative two-motor hybrid technology, which consists of (1) an ultra-efficient 1.5-liter DOHC i-VTEC® Atkinson-cycle in-line 4-cylinder engine coupled to a starter/generator motor; (2) an ultra-quiet 181-horsepower AC synchronous traction motor; and (3) a 17-kilowatt hour (kWh), 168-cell lithium-ion battery pack.

The Clarity Plug-In Hybrid runs primarily on its electric motor, using its Atkinson-cycle engine and starter/generator motor to generate electricity that is either supplied directly to the traction motor or used to recharge the 17 kWh lithium-ion battery pack.


"In Engine Drive mode, which is typically engaged when cruising at medium to high speeds, the Clarity functions as a parallel hybrid. A lock-up clutch connects the engine (always linked to the generator motor) and the traction motor to send power directly from the engine to the front wheels. Unlike most competing hybrid and plug-in hybrid vehicles, the Clarity does not use a conventional transmission, which saves weight and minimizes complexity while improving efficiency."
Here's another great article by Car and Driver explaining the way the Clarity iMMD drivetrain works and first deployed in North America in the 2014 Accord Hybrid.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/e ... -tech-dept
Image

Or just watch this You Tube video:
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Feb 6, 2017
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It all depends on your needs and preference, for me the Volt is way more suitable. I don't have a family so don't care too much about the backseat roominess. If I were to do it again today, I'd still buy a Volt over a Clarity due to several reasons;

- I take the highway during my commutes and wouldn't want the car to engage the transmission at 90-100km/hr or during fast acceleration.
- I also wouldn't want to bother with 3 different driving modes, with the Volt I just shift it into D and drive it like an automatic car. The different modes are a nuisance imo.
- The slightly longer range is a plus too especially in the winter when the range gets cut short. On most cold winter days I get home on an empty electric battery so every extra kilometer matters when you're at the fringe on a daily basis.
- I also received a bunch of discounts on the Volt ($3,000 on top of the gov't incentive), something unlikely to get from Honda.
- Lastly the aesthetics, the partially covered wheel and weird curves just bother me too much and I detested this from the first time I saw pictures of it. If it's not a luxury EV, then I want my EV to look as generic as possible, to not draw any further attention to it.
Last edited by HN12345 on Feb 24th, 2018 9:05 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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My choice was simple. No clarity in 2016, and the BMW i3 was a rip-off.
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tk1000 wrote: Did you confirm the Honda Clarity has a CVT? Are you guessing? The Honda Clarity does not have a "conventional transmission" and the engine only operates as needed.

Read about Honda's innovative two-motor hybrid technology and stop spreading the wrong information

2018 Honda Clarity Plug-In Hybrid Press Kit
http://hondanews.com/releases/2018-hond ... -press-kit

The Clarity Plug-In Hybrid utilizes Honda's innovative two-motor hybrid technology, which consists of (1) an ultra-efficient 1.5-liter DOHC i-VTEC® Atkinson-cycle in-line 4-cylinder engine coupled to a starter/generator motor; (2) an ultra-quiet 181-horsepower AC synchronous traction motor; and (3) a 17-kilowatt hour (kWh), 168-cell lithium-ion battery pack.

The Clarity Plug-In Hybrid runs primarily on its electric motor, using its Atkinson-cycle engine and starter/generator motor to generate electricity that is either supplied directly to the traction motor or used to recharge the 17 kWh lithium-ion battery pack.


"In Engine Drive mode, which is typically engaged when cruising at medium to high speeds, the Clarity functions as a parallel hybrid. A lock-up clutch connects the engine (always linked to the generator motor) and the traction motor to send power directly from the engine to the front wheels. Unlike most competing hybrid and plug-in hybrid vehicles, the Clarity does not use a conventional transmission, which saves weight and minimizes complexity while improving efficiency."
CVT just means a "transmission" without set gear ratios, types include:

Variable-diameter pulley (VDP) or Reeves drive
Toroidal or roller-based (Extroid)
Magnetic or m
Infinitely variable transmission (IVT)
Ratcheting
Hydrostatic
Naudic incremental (iCVT)
Cone
Radial roller
Planetary

The Toyota and Ford Hybrid systems use the planetary system. Nissan uses a pulley and belt system.

Something has to transmit power from the "motor" to the running gear and that is done through some sort of "transmission". The Honda video posted actually shows "eCVT".

Regardless of what Honda call their transmission, from their description it works in a similar way if the gas engine does the two tasks of providing motive power and battery charging at the same time from a relatively small engine in hybrid mode. I am not saying it is bad. It is just different to what a lot of people will be used to. There are people around who won't even buy a 4 cylinder vehicle because they think it must be under powered let alone trying to get them to consider something like this. If you really value efficiency like I do then you are willing to accept a few necessary compromises. This car is not going to drive like a V6 or a 2L 4 cylinder turbo - for me that isn't an issue and I wouldn't expect it to. The Clarity seems like a great overall package and with the $14k rebate why would anyone buy something like a Camry Hybrid. The styling is a bit out there but would not a show stopper for me. The problem with a lot of plug-ins is they are a bit small and the Clarity offers something roomier and well equipped. It is always best to enter into something with all the information and I think this sort of vehicle may require a little open mindedness when assessing the way it drives etc. If somebody orders/buys one thinking that the engine and the electric motor add together to give it the performance of a V6 I fear they may be a bit disappointed. There are limits to what can be expected from a vehicle this size with a 1.5L engine - that engine is going to have to rev up at times.
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HN12345 wrote: It all depends on your needs and preference, for me the Volt is way more suitable. I don't have a family so don't care too much about the backseat roominess. If I were to do it again today, I'd still buy a Volt over a Clarity due to several reasons;

- I take the highway during my commutes and wouldn't want the car to engage the transmission at 90-100km/hr or during fast acceleration.
- I also wouldn't want to bother with 3 different driving modes, with the Volt I just shift it into D and drive it like an automatic car. The different modes are a nuisance imo.
- The slightly longer range is a plus too especially in the winter when the range gets cut short. On most cold winter days I get home on an empty electric battery so every extra kilometer matters when you're at the fringe on a daily basis.
- I also received a bunch of discounts on the Volt ($3,000 on top of the gov't incentive), something unlikely to get from Honda.
- Lastly the aesthetics, the partially covered wheel and weird curves just bother me too much and I detested this from the first time I saw pictures of it. If it's not a luxury EV, then I want my EV to look as generic as possible, to not draw any further attention to it.
Exactly it all depends on how you use the car and what you want out of it.

Check out my post in the other Clarity thread for some 'facts' instead of mis-information and half truth. Anyway,

1. The engine does not come on unless you push the paddle to the metal (almost), there is a power band in the display that you can see exactly when the engine will be engaged and you can decide when you want it to engage
2. I believe the Volt still has a 'Hold', 'Mountain', 'L' mode if you want to deal with those. So no difference from the Clarity, you can just drive in the Normal mode which is the default mode
3. It is true that the Volt has a slight advantage on pure EV range and if you need that, that the Volt is for you
4. Good for you to get $3000 off the Volt price, I don't know where you are exactly but the dealer in Ottawa told me there is absolutely no discount. In fact, I can only get a Volt if I can wait till end of 2018 for the 2019 model as all 2018 are already spoken for
5. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You have to see the Clarity in person, the pictures don't do it justice. Besides there is currently no Luxury EV available in the market. Tesla is expensive EV, not luxury as the fit and finish is horrible (well, not horrible, just not the best) based on all the complains from different forums

Anyway for me, I like the power train of the Volt but I don't like the interior and the visibility from the inside. And I don't like the fact that I am paying in the mid to high 40's (without rebate) and getting a car that looks and feel like a $20,000 car so when I saw the Clarity and test drive it and research it, that's it for me.
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Perhaps by CVT you mean the engine drone? Both the volt and the clarity allow the engine speed to be decoupled from the vehicle speed. This creates a weird sensation where the engine noise is constant despite speeding up or slowing down?

I agree the difference is jarring at first from standard multi gear tranny with gas engine.
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mr_raider wrote: Perhaps by CVT you mean the engine drone? Both the volt and the clarity allow the engine speed to be decoupled from the vehicle speed. This creates a weird sensation where the engine noise is constant despite speeding up or slowing down?

I agree the difference is jarring at first from standard multi gear tranny with gas engine.
For simplicity my answer to that is yes.

It isn't clear from the Honda diagram if the clutch connects the engine to the wheels via a single fixed gear or say a planetary system. If it is a single gear I would be surprised as this would be limiting for the system.

It is more efficient when using the engine to drive the wheels through gears than by using it to generate electricity for an electric motor to drive the wheels (range extended setup as in Volt).

In the Toyota and Ford systems the engine can drive the wheels through gears at all speeds, as can the electric motor or a combination of both. Without some sort of CVT the Honda system could only operate in this mode in "top gear" or "overdrive" to use conventional terms. If this is the case this would be not as efficient a system as the Toyota / Ford system except at higher speeds.. In "range extender" mode where the engine is running as a generator the revs could be totally mismatched to the roadspeed which could seem more "revvy", and with a smaller engine one would have to expect it to run at higher revs at times to develop the same torgue as say the Toyota 2.5L engine.

For the techies here is a detailed description of the Ford/Toyota setup and how it differs from an old school CVT. There is a diagram that can be compared to the Honda one.

http://etereman.com/blog/ford-transmiss ... -cvt-right
Last edited by Bevatron on Feb 25th, 2018 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The gen 2 volt uses 3 clutches and 3 planetary gear modes. The three cs modes all use the engine but in different ways. The car shuffles through the 3 cs modes depending on load, speed and battery status. One of the modes, cs2 has a direct drive from engine to the wheels and is used some times.

Details here:

http://gm-volt.com/2015/02/20/gen-2-vol ... explained/

Essentially the transmission always runs the engine at its most efficient and if extra power is needed the battery is used. If extra power is generated by the gas engine than needed its shuttled back to the battery. The two motors can be reversed if need to get the proper wheel speed.

Its a.marvel of modern engineering. I like the clarity, but the Volts engineering is GMs best IMHO.
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mr_raider wrote: The gen 2 volt uses 3 clutches and 3 planetary gear modes. The three cs modes all use the engine but in different ways. The car shuffles through the 3 cs modes depending on load, speed and battery status. One of the modes, cs2 has a direct drive from engine to the wheels and is used some times.

Details here:

http://gm-volt.com/2015/02/20/gen-2-vol ... explained/

Essentially the transmission always runs the engine at its most efficient and if extra power is needed the battery is used. If extra power is generated by the gas engine than needed its shuttled back to the battery. The two motors can be reversed if need to get the proper wheel speed.

Its a.marvel of modern engineering. I like the clarity, but the Volts engineering is GMs best IMHO.
So the Volt is not simply a range extended setup as popularly labelled. Those diagrams do a great job of explaining the Volt setup. It seems closer in operation to the Ford Energi products than the Clarity unless the Clarity uses planetary gears too in which case it is similar also. Its hard for marketing people to sell the subtle differences between these power trains without making generalizations but it seems there is nothing earth shattering unique about the Honda setup.
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Dec 11, 2007
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I just bought a Clarity and the Volt is a very good car. I went for the Clarity mainly because of the size and the standard safety features. It definitely wasn't for the looks but I can say it's kind of growing on me. I would have went with the Volt if I didn't need the space. With the Volt I was able to get leather without jumping into the Premier and I could have gotten the basic safety features on the base at around or lower than the Clarity. But since I have 2 tall kids of driving age the size and safety features were key for me. In reality you can't go wrong with either vehicle, it all depends on your wants and needs. I wanted to take advantage of the rebate and needed a car with more range than an all electric. It wasn't an easy decision because I like the Volt's reliability track record and it looks like a normal car. I just couldn't fit my family in the Volt. If it was just me and my wife then it would probably just go down to price.
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Martin (deal addict) wrote: So the Volt is not simply a range extended setup as popularly labelled. Those diagrams do a great job of explaining the Volt setup. It seems closer in operation to the Ford Energi products than the Clarity unless the Clarity uses planetary gears too in which case it is similar also. Its hard for marketing people to sell the subtle differences between these power trains without making generalizations but it seems there is nothing earth shattering unique about the Honda setup.
Honda's two-motor hybrid technology has an electromagnetic multi-plate wet clutch pack that allows the gas engine to drive the wheels directly. Once the clutch is engaged, engine rpm is proportional to car speed. Essentially a single gear that's about equivalent to the top gear in conventional transmissions.

The Honda hybrid power flow is unique, nothing like the acceleration assist-only system the company has used exclusively since the 1999 introduction of the Insight and later on other Honda models. The Accord PHEV has a two-motor design—one starter-generator and one traction motor within what forms an electric CVT (continuously variable transmission).

The system operates in one of three power flow modes: pure EV, hybrid, and direct drive from the engine—through a clutch into a helical gearset in the CVT-E and into the transaxle. A shaft-within-a-hollow-shaft system and an electromagnetic clutch are packaged within the CVT-E housing, Honda engineers said, but a cutaway or exploded version was not available for inspection. The direct drive from the engine is by engaging the electromagnetic clutch located between the engine (with starter-generator) and the traction motor.

An advantage of this system is that, in direct drive, at the cruising speeds that are beyond the hybrid operation, there are no energy conversion losses (from the gasoline engine used to produce electricity to power the traction motor) as in other two-motor hybrids. That is, the engine transfers power through the clutch and the gearset in the CVT-E into the transaxle.

The direct-drive mode from the engine is engaged by locking the clutch at the most efficient combination of road speed and load, so at higher road speeds in particular, the Accord PHEV should deliver better fuel economy than with a conventional hybrid system. The car reportedly will run in EV mode up to about 60 mph (96 km/h). A Honda engineer told AEI that the direct-drive clutch could lock in at as low as 45 mph (72 km/h) depending on load conditions.


from http://articles.sae.org/11354/
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tk1000 wrote: Honda's two-motor hybrid technology has an electromagnetic multi-plate wet clutch pack that allows the gas engine to drive the wheels directly. Once the clutch is engaged, engine rpm is proportional to car speed. Essentially a single gear that's about equivalent to the top gear in conventional transmissions.
If that is the case then I would say it is a step down from the second generation Volt system.
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Martin (deal addict) wrote: If that is the case then I would say it is a step down from the second generation Volt system.
That's all speculation based on the accord Hybrid. There's no way of knowing if the clarity is the same.

If you can decoupled the engine speed from vehicle speed, why not do it? You can run the engine at maximum efficiency.

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