Off Topic

How do you think COVID-19 will change the world when this is all over?

Sr. Member
Jan 13, 2004
604 posts
27 upvotes
lecale wrote: You are trying to tell me that it is not "fair" that the 0.1% foots the bill just because they can. We must put the burden on those who can't.

How asinine is that logic?

This guy can do the job, we won't leverage him, we will get someone who can't do the job (who will fail, things will get worse, but at least the 0.1% will make out ok).

You have a pretty screwy vision of "fair," buddy.
LOL, you are bitter. I also think you should calm down a bit and think before going on so many different tangents.

Where in my post did I say to put the COVID "burden on those who can't"? I challenge you to find this in my post.

I simply asked why is it fair that the 0.1% foots the bill. Fair is relative. What's "fair" to you, may not be fair to someone/everyone else
Fair to me would mean, JT foots the entire CERB bill. Or that the people who took CERB pay for it over the long run so myself/my family/my kids don't have to pay it.
That doesn't mean other people would find that fair.

Also, it's normal for people who disagree. Just because some people don't agree with your idealogy, or does not agree with 5% of your idealogy, it doesn't mean they're "against" you. You would sound more convincing if you removed your bitterness and attacking everyone who doesn't agree 100% with your posts.
Deal Fanatic
Nov 15, 2008
8949 posts
3296 upvotes
random pattern wrote: Wow. Not sure why you’re taking this tone. Why the hate for the wealthy? The wealthy have never suffered, and don’t know what it means...? Are clueless? Really?

Some pretty broad generalizations there. Kind of expected better from you. I consider myself wealthy, and privileged, and super fortunate. I also believe the wealthy need to shoulder more of the costs of society. I do not consider myself clueless, nor do I believe I have never suffered. And I don’t know what Kobe beef is.
I work to get people connected to the internet and the government and I do not get paid for that. It is my choice. I had an IT career; I am now using my skills to help people navigate they system because I went to university and they didn't and a lot of them only have grade 3 to 8 education. They are fantastic people, all of them, none of them stupid, all of them uneducated, none a dummy.

Right now I am looking into helping a guy get teeth. Let me paint you a picture. I want to get this guy teeth, but I want to find a path so I can repeat this action and get someone else some teeth if I run into someone else who needs them.

  • Guy was on disability, still working part time as a labourer
  • Guy took prescribed drugs paid for by disability and his teeth dried out and shattered
  • Guy has trouble eating and suffers tooth pain
  • Guy wants all of his remaining teeth pulled out and dentures made
  • Guy was moved from ODSP to CPP by government at age 60 he signed the papers because he didn't know.
  • Guy is functionally illiterate, has to believe what you tell him, absolutely sharp as a tack though. No dummy.
  • This uploads cost of this guy from province to feds - good for government
  • If guy waited 5-10 years he would have higher CPP income but government pushed him off the plank
  • Guy's move from ODSP to CPP means he lost all drug, dental and vision coverage
  • Guy needs glasses but he has a masssive magnifier he carries around that will do because it's not the biggest issue now.
  • Guy is no longer taking needed medications because he can't afford it
  • One of guy's issues is chronic pain and he receives no treatment for this now.
  • ODSP would have paid for new dentures every 5 years
  • OHIP won't pay for the dental surgery to remove the shattered teeth.
  • Guy started the quest for teeth when he was still on ODSP
  • ODSP had written requests for teeth from him when they pushed him onto CPP and he lost all eligibility.

You wealthy guys know this stuff goes down in Canada? I have enough stories to write a novel and right now I am actually thinking of writing a manifesto. It's all become too stupid to tolerate.

What have you got for wealthy guy problems this week? How do you feel about teeth. Basic need or luxury? The government is telling me they can't do anything for this guy now that they have pushed him out of the provincial program and on to the feds. They scammed him to save the taxpayers a few bucks a month but it's costing this guy big time. Eating, talking, pain, those are not basic issues that the government is willing to address. They are telling me they don't have the money.

Should billionaires exist, or should they give fractionally so that every Canadian can eat, talk, and be free of pain?

Would you still fight a wealth tax if you knew what being the opposite of a billionaire really meant?
Deal Fanatic
Nov 15, 2008
8949 posts
3296 upvotes
J W wrote: LOL, you are bitter. I also think you should calm down a bit and think before going on so many different tangents.

Where in my post did I say to put the COVID "burden on those who can't"? I challenge you to find this in my post.

I simply asked why is it fair that the 0.1% foots the bill. Fair is relative. What's "fair" to you, may not be fair to someone/everyone else
Fair to me would mean, JT foots the entire CERB bill. Or that the people who took CERB pay for it over the long run so myself/my family/my kids don't have to pay it.
That doesn't mean other people would find that fair.

Also, it's normal for people who disagree. Just because some people don't agree with your idealogy, or does not agree with 5% of your idealogy, it doesn't mean they're "against" you. You would sound more convincing if you removed your bitterness and attacking everyone who doesn't agree 100% with your posts.
JT does not have enough money to personally float the whole CERB bill, that's moronic. You seem to lack an understanding of who the 0.1% are.

Your narrative is simply "don't make me pay for anything" then? Fair is "leave me out of it entirely, don't bring me into this"? You are never going to look into the issue seriously, just say stupid stuff as you scrape shit off your shoe and try not to track it everywhere? Deny there are problems? Remain ignorant?

Do not mistake my anger towards clueless wealthy people for bitterness. Bitterness is about resentment. I don't actually resent wealthy people.

I want to educate wealthy people and tell them what the world is like outside of their bubble.

They exhibit stunning greed and a total lack of compassion and comprehension. They are highly educated and totally ignorant at the same time. They don't think they need to learn any more because they got an education delivered by their wealthy peers and they don't see the flaws in anything they have been taught because wealthy people stroke it all the right way. If it works for us, it's good. F other people. We wrote the laws and the systems to benefit ourselves and they have the audacity not to like it? The wealthy are shocked. "But everything's fair!!!"

You know ignorance of the law is not a valid excuse in court, and ignorance of poverty is not an acceptable justification for obscene wealth.

I would resent them if there was nothing I could do about it but there is: I can shame them. I can show what they are doing to the underclass, and ask people if the way the wealthy have structured and protected themselves in society while leaving others to fall into a chronic state of suffering and ask if that is ethical, moral or fair.
Deal Fanatic
Apr 11, 2006
8159 posts
2852 upvotes
Mississauga
lecale wrote: There are people stuck at home because it is not legal to leave their kids alone because they are too young and the whole return to school thing has not given any reassurance.

There will be a wealth tax. There cannot no be one. We cannot put COVID costs on the backs of the people at the bottom end of the economy. Wealthy people can cover the bill in a snap and that's what they have to do. That is where the Liberals are heading now. Wealthy people are trying to get people stirred up about higher taxes but it's the 0.1% that is going to get hit and no one should be feeling sorry for them because as much as they cry and wail about how much they are going to suffer ... they have never suffered in their lives, do not know what it means, cannot connect with people who have suffered because they have no shared experience with them, and are about to be greatly enlightened. Trust me.

I just can't wait to hear wealthy people justify their wealth and fight against a wealth tax whilst other people are suffering. I read the Post. I have seen absolutely no compelling argument to spare the bastards. Honestly, people.

Even though we are on opposites from a political viewpoint, I can typically see where you're coming from in some of your posts, and certainly the non-political posts usually have some merit to them.

But come on now, this post here just wreaks of envy. While I am no where close to the 0.1% or 1% or 5%, etc. and understand there is a need for wealth redistribution to some degree via taxes and all, I have always been a disciplined hard worker that has always busted my butt to make an honest living, learning from the examples of my immigrant parents who even moreso busted their tail to put food on the table, such that now all grown up, me and my siblings can help support our parents along with our own lives, and we don't live extravagantly by any means.

Like others above mentioned, I too have worked a tonne of OT over the years (I have never gotten paid for OT because I'm a salaried person, but my mindset is much different from people who watch the clock and work their 37.5 hours and leave (nothing wrong with that either though). if I continue to bust my butt to further increase my potential earnings, I certainly don't need the likes of you to tell me I've had it easy. You don't know the enormous number of unsuccessful interviews I've had before getting into the company I've now been working for, for over 15 years; or the number of seasonal part time jobs in retail I've done where I am released at the end of the busy seasons or the huge number of applications for crappy jobs I've submitted since my teens but never even got considered for an interview. No big deal, move on, is what I always say.

I'm not going to generalize or be presumptuous about your circumstances but we've seen from RFD enough examples of posters with an entitlement mindset that want to blame anyone that is more well off that say they can't find work or anything, but only apply to jobs that are more glamorous and desirable and want instant gratification, without any long term plans and ambitions of where they want to be; or better off those that rack up huge amounts of debt, not out of necessity, but simply due to out of control addictive spending habits and want others to foot the bill.

Ultimately, the only one you should really be speaking for is yourself. You have no idea whether others have had it hard, whether it's average folk like myself or the 0.1%. What about someone like a Chris Gardner (who Will Smith portrays in Pursuit of Happyness - black man in racist America no less). Yes, the real story is nothing entirely like the movie, but he actually did go to jail, and did show up at his interview with paint on his shoes and pants, and he was homeless with his son in tow, and he's a much wealthier person now than before. He made it! Did he have a harder life than you? Maybe, maybe not, but I would not for a second, think his life was not hard regardless just because he has a certain level of wealth to his name.

Just take a step back, breathe, and relax.
Last edited by kenchau on Sep 18th, 2020 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Newbie
Oct 27, 2016
56 posts
2 upvotes
lecale wrote: I work to get people connected to the internet and the government and I do not get paid for that. It is my choice. I had an IT career; I am now using my skills to help people navigate they system because I went to university and they didn't and a lot of them only have grade 3 to 8 education. They are fantastic people, all of them, none of them stupid, all of them uneducated, none a dummy.
My question: Why didn't they finish school?
Member
Jun 4, 2013
470 posts
198 upvotes
Vancouver
lecale wrote: JT does not have enough money to personally float the whole CERB bill, that's moronic. You seem to lack an understanding of who the 0.1% are.

Your narrative is simply "don't make me pay for anything" then? Fair is "leave me out of it entirely, don't bring me into this"? You are never going to look into the issue seriously, just say stupid stuff as you scrape shit off your shoe and try not to track it everywhere? Deny there are problems? Remain ignorant?

Do not mistake my anger towards clueless wealthy people for bitterness. Bitterness is about resentment. I don't actually resent wealthy people.

I want to educate wealthy people and tell them what the world is like outside of their bubble.

They exhibit stunning greed and a total lack of compassion and comprehension. They are highly educated and totally ignorant at the same time. They don't think they need to learn any more because they got an education delivered by their wealthy peers and they don't see the flaws in anything they have been taught because wealthy people stroke it all the right way. If it works for us, it's good. F other people. We wrote the laws and the systems to benefit ourselves and they have the audacity not to like it? The wealthy are shocked. "But everything's fair!!!"

You know ignorance of the law is not a valid excuse in court, and ignorance of poverty is not an acceptable justification for obscene wealth.

I would resent them if there was nothing I could do about it but there is: I can shame them. I can show what they are doing to the underclass, and ask people if the way the wealthy have structured and protected themselves in society while leaving others to fall into a chronic state of suffering and ask if that is ethical, moral or fair.
Just admitted you are bitter there are people out there who are more successful than you. Mark my words lol the middle class will be the ones to pay for all this mess(and I consider myself a middle class). There are going to tax increase and gov service is going to decrease. There isn't going to be a wealthy tax. There is not going to be UBI. If the libs want one they would have done it already during early days of CoVID19 as a trail instead of creating CERB. And the wealthy works smarter not harder which is something you are lacking. Oh and they also work harder. They don't just put in their 8 hours and call it a day. A lot of wealthy people don't have a work schedule. They work when they have to weather is to have a meeting at night with people across the world, getting up early skip lunch. When we go enjoy dinner with friends they go on dinner with clients to get more business. They put in more 8 hours a day. Close relative I know own several pizza place he doesn't work your typical 9 to 5 Mon to Fri and go on vacation. He works from 10am to 2am pretty much daily. When he is not at his store he is out getting supplies for his shops, haven't taken any vacation for years, doesn't get to his kid often(only in the morning). Sure he is rich but he also works for it. Will you be willing to give up weekends and family time? I don't think so. He started as a pizza delivery guy and work his way up. So you think is fair just to tax the wealthy guess what I think is unfair. I think is fair to get those who took out CERB to pay it back. Why should anyone else pay for it. They didn't have a rainy day fund. Why is it my fault and my tax dollar going to bail them out? I work hard, I work OT and I save for a rainy day fund in case I lost my job for whatever reason.

Admitted you are bitter and selfish and is just jealous there are better out there who is doing better than you.
Deal Fanatic
Nov 15, 2008
8949 posts
3296 upvotes
kenchau wrote: Even though we are on opposites from a political viewpoint, I can typically see where you're coming from in some of your posts, and certainly the non-political posts usually have some merit to them.

But come on now, this post here just wreaks of envy. While I am no where close to the 0.1% or 1% or 5%, etc. and understand there is a need for wealth redistribution to some degree via taxes and all, I have always been a disciplined hard worker that has always busted my butt to make an honest living, learning from the examples of my immigrant parents who even moreso busted their tail to put food on the table, such that now all grown up, me and my siblings can help support our parents along with our own lives, and we don't live extravagantly by any means.

Like others above mentioned, I too have worked a tonne of OT over the years (I have never gotten paid for OT because I'm a salaried person, but my mindset is much different from people who watch the clock and work their 37.5 hours and leave (nothing wrong with that either though). if I continue to bust my butt to further increase my potential earnings, I certainly don't need the likes of you to tell me I've had it easy. You don't know the enormous number of unsuccessful interviews I've had before getting into the company I've now been working for, for over 15 years; or the number of seasonal part time jobs in retail I've done where I am released at the end of the busy seasons or the huge number of applications for crappy jobs I've submitted since my teens but never even got considered for an interview. No big deal, move on, is what I always say.

I'm not going to generalize or be presumptuous about your circumstances but we've seen from RFD enough examples of posters with an entitlement mindset that want to blame anyone that is more well off that say they can't find work or anything, but only apply to jobs that are more glamorous and desirable and want instant gratification, without any long term plans and ambitions of where they want to be; or better off those that rack up huge amounts of debt, not out of necessity, but simply due to out of control addictive spending habits and want others to foot the bill.

Ultimately, the only one you should really be speaking for is yourself. You have no idea whether others have had it hard, whether it's average folk like myself or the 0.1%. What about someone like a Chris Gardner (who Will Smith portrays in Pursuit of Happyness - black man in racist America no less). Yes, the real story is nothing entirely like the movie, but he actually did go to jail, and did show up at his interview with paint on his shoes and pants, and he was homeless with his son in tow, and he's a much wealthier person now than before. He made it! Did he have a harder life than you? Maybe, maybe not, but I would not for a second, think his life was not hard regardless just because he has a certain level of wealth to his name.

Just take a step back, breathe, and relax.
Hey, buddy, I grew up in Caledon. I had my own pony. Did you have a pony?

Sounds like no. Don't be jealous though because they are not a good time. When I was in my teens I liked to read a lot and I signed up to teach illiterate adults how to read because THAT was fun. I found that myself. No one even gave me a hint.

You are honestly going to cry to me about OT and job interviews and shitty seasonal retail jobs?? This is the greatest hardship you ever faced that you can lay out for me?

If a labourer takes a shitty job with a company that is dodgy on health and safety because there is no other choice available to them, they are agreeing to accept the risk of being killed or maimed, often for minimum wage. How's the Christmas rush at Indigo. Is it that tough?

Do you know there is an entire class of labourers using opioids every day to get by the pain of repetitive stress and other injuries, or using amphetamines to provide the alertness required for something incredibly boring and incredibly dangerous at the same time? These guys are ok as long as they limit themselves to using drugs on workdays, but if they party on the weekend with the same stuff they can fall into tolerance and addiction. Ever chase your spouse around town while they were on a 3 week crack cocaine bender, just trying to make sure they don't get killed or kill someone else? I mean God's love, keep them away from the cops or they might end up shot dead. Of course you have all your family and friends in on this too, trying to get a handle on an activated, agitated, paranoid, violent person that also happens to be your best buddy and true love, they are just not themselves this month. As soon as you figure out where he's getting the drugs from you will sic the cops on that person, but right now you don't know and someone keeps feeding the crisis. I have seen this play out. Have you had tough times like this? These are not gangsters and partiers, they are good solid blue-collar small-town old stock Canadians that fell into a trap that a lot of people have fallen into in these times.

37.5 hours. Crack cocaine binges are 24 hours x 7 days x as long as they are strung along by someone who puts money before community. Let's call it one 500 hour long day, because the guy never takes a break. You think you had a hard week. This guy had a hard week. All of his family and friends had a hard week. You didn't even know about it.

There are actually people counting on me to tell people their story now. They want people to know. They want you to know.

I am anti-envy. All of our furniture is made from solid wood furniture that was thrown on the street on garbage day. We took it apart and rebuilt to purpose. I donate as much as possible so I am not drowning in junk. I read a book, I give it away. I upgrade my computer, I pluck someone off the street and hand them specifications and teach them what they've got and tell them to go out there and make some money if they can off it, or at least find the thing a good home. It's worked out better than donating to Value Village. I ordinarily do not take a cut. I call people to pick up my leftovers the second I am tired of them so somebody eats them and they do not go to waste. People are stuck on cashflow but I am all about junkflow, baby. Get this shit out of here. I don't want to be one of those guys with a garage full of plastic bins full of stuff I never look at and a green bin loaded to the tits.

Start here, people: https://www.amazon.ca/Life-Changing-Mag ... 1607747308

I rejected the pursuit of money. I do not want retail, I want culture.

Retail is when you buy your kid a slot racecar track and he is sick of it in a week and you buy him a model and it's pure ennui and you give him a wood burning kit and it's new, new, new!! And none of it captures the kid's attention.

Pop culture is when the kid gets all those things, but a little used and battered, and soon enough he is using the wood burring tool to melt and remodel his slot cars, the model kit paints to paint them, and the kid is engaged and making things week after week.

People are too stuck on the thrill of clicking the "buy now" button because shopping is really and truly a dopamine booster. It's the same as a little shot of cocaine. They both boost dopamine. They thrill us. That is what money can do for you - it can give you the thrill of the buy.

You do not have to have money to have a very rich culture and culture is what makes us life and thrive.

People have to break out of the money cult. Can you see where I am coming from?
Deal Fanatic
Nov 15, 2008
8949 posts
3296 upvotes
QueenofPunk wrote: My question: Why didn't they finish school?
Gotta work to make money. One guy I know only had grade 3 because he dropped out to work alongside his mother as a school janitor so the family could have the money to survive. He likes to say "I shore spend a lot of time in school!" Born on the east coast about 5 decades ago. Tons of people out there left school early to work as fishermen and labourers. The government would not pay for school textbooks past grade 10 out there and people's families couldn't afford the books so they dropped out. It's not like things got better, they cranked out generations of people like that down there.

That's why Ricky from the Trailer Park Boys walks around in a leather varsity jacket that has a patch that says "Grade 10" on the sleeve. He's a champion. He's a member of the most educated class out there. The Trailer Park Boys are Bluenosers but they are the same as the Newfies: social justice warriors with really strong communities. They will do anything to support each other. Great show to watch. It's funny because it's true.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Mar 29, 2008
3405 posts
599 upvotes
lecale wrote: I work to get people connected to the internet and the government and I do not get paid for that. It is my choice. I had an IT career; I am now using my skills to help people navigate they system because I went to university and they didn't and a lot of them only have grade 3 to 8 education. They are fantastic people, all of them, none of them stupid, all of them uneducated, none a dummy.

Right now I am looking into helping a guy get teeth. Let me paint you a picture. I want to get this guy teeth, but I want to find a path so I can repeat this action and get someone else some teeth if I run into someone else who needs them.

  • Guy was on disability, still working part time as a labourer
  • Guy took prescribed drugs paid for by disability and his teeth dried out and shattered
  • Guy has trouble eating and suffers tooth pain
  • Guy wants all of his remaining teeth pulled out and dentures made
  • Guy was moved from ODSP to CPP by government at age 60 he signed the papers because he didn't know.
  • Guy is functionally illiterate, has to believe what you tell him, absolutely sharp as a tack though. No dummy.
  • This uploads cost of this guy from province to feds - good for government
  • If guy waited 5-10 years he would have higher CPP income but government pushed him off the plank
  • Guy's move from ODSP to CPP means he lost all drug, dental and vision coverage
  • Guy needs glasses but he has a masssive magnifier he carries around that will do because it's not the biggest issue now.
  • Guy is no longer taking needed medications because he can't afford it
  • One of guy's issues is chronic pain and he receives no treatment for this now.
  • ODSP would have paid for new dentures every 5 years
  • OHIP won't pay for the dental surgery to remove the shattered teeth.
  • Guy started the quest for teeth when he was still on ODSP
  • ODSP had written requests for teeth from him when they pushed him onto CPP and he lost all eligibility.

You wealthy guys know this stuff goes down in Canada? I have enough stories to write a novel and right now I am actually thinking of writing a manifesto. It's all become too stupid to tolerate.

What have you got for wealthy guy problems this week? How do you feel about teeth. Basic need or luxury? The government is telling me they can't do anything for this guy now that they have pushed him out of the provincial program and on to the feds. They scammed him to save the taxpayers a few bucks a month but it's costing this guy big time. Eating, talking, pain, those are not basic issues that the government is willing to address. They are telling me they don't have the money.

Should billionaires exist, or should they give fractionally so that every Canadian can eat, talk, and be free of pain?

Would you still fight a wealth tax if you knew what being the opposite of a billionaire really meant?
That’s it? That’s all you’ve got? That’s all you’re doing and you’re on a rant?

Have you even ever gone hungry? What do you know of poverty? You feel good about yourself because you give your computer away away? Awww, poor guy - old computer not fast enough for you? Patting yourself on the back because you gave a book away - others are stuffing their pants with pages from books to stay warm. But hey, good for you, you gave a way a book. See how your perspective works?

Have you ever needed to be on the receiving end? Sounds like you grew up with a silver spoon in your mouth. Hypocrite. What’s your biggest stress this week? What book to give away? Sounds like you’re living in a bubble of your own and need to be educated. Again, see how your perspective works?

Pretty small minded of you if you can’t understand that there are some that weren’t born with all the advantages you’re assuming (e.g. think third world not first world) become wealthy and have no issues with giving back. Get off your high horse - you’re not the only one who gives back. You think you’re the only one who volunteers? How many times have you opened your doors to people that have nowhere to sleep?

The irony is, many (not all) wealthy are making a bigger difference than you because they are contributing more (and I’m not talking about just taxes) as well as contributing time and efforts. Try coming back when you’ve contributed a meaningful amount of money and time.
Deal Fanatic
Nov 15, 2008
8949 posts
3296 upvotes
sponge5307 wrote: Just admitted you are bitter there are people out there who are more successful than you. Mark my words lol the middle class will be the ones to pay for all this mess(and I consider myself a middle class). There are going to tax increase and gov service is going to decrease. There isn't going to be a wealthy tax. There is not going to be UBI. If the libs want one they would have done it already during early days of CoVID19 as a trail instead of creating CERB. And the wealthy works smarter not harder which is something you are lacking. Oh and they also work harder. They don't just put in their 8 hours and call it a day. A lot of wealthy people don't have a work schedule. They work when they have to weather is to have a meeting at night with people across the world, getting up early skip lunch. When we go enjoy dinner with friends they go on dinner with clients to get more business. They put in more 8 hours a day. Close relative I know own several pizza place he doesn't work your typical 9 to 5 Mon to Fri and go on vacation. He works from 10am to 2am pretty much daily. When he is not at his store he is out getting supplies for his shops, haven't taken any vacation for years, doesn't get to his kid often(only in the morning). Sure he is rich but he also works for it. Will you be willing to give up weekends and family time? I don't think so. He started as a pizza delivery guy and work his way up. So you think is fair just to tax the wealthy guess what I think is unfair. I think is fair to get those who took out CERB to pay it back. Why should anyone else pay for it. They didn't have a rainy day fund. Why is it my fault and my tax dollar going to bail them out? I work hard, I work OT and I save for a rainy day fund in case I lost my job for whatever reason.

Admitted you are bitter and selfish and is just jealous there are better out there who is doing better than you.
"Success" just means "money." There are other ways to measure a life then by how much money you made.

Why are you so certain that there is going to be a middle class tax increase and services will decrease? Where are you getting this info? I read many papers every single day and all of them say the government and its opposition are both driving for a UBI and Wealth Tax. You want to live in denial about what is coming because ... ? You are committed to thinking that life is most unfair for you of all people?

You must not know a lot about politics if you think Trudeau could have introduced a UBI as soon as COVID came on when people had no clear idea of how bad this was going to be. I've worked at City Hall, I have seen politics in action. I have run around City Hall getting signatures on stuff that came out of council and saw the process. CERB was a reasonable first step in the situation. Things are bad. We need more stimulus. You cannot go from 0 to 100, from nothing to full UBI at a drop of the hat and against the will of a hesitant population that wants to see proof that this is where we need to go first.

Don't tell me how hard desk workers work. At City Hall I had to manage the chairs. Their health and safety committee was concerned that people would be injured by sitting for 7 hours every day and people had to be ergonomically fitted to their chairs to reduce the danger. Sitting this much is a good way to get diabetes too. You see young kids come in and in due course they have joined the 34" club. They are nowhere near as active, eating the same, sitting all day. It absolutely is a health hazard but a ridiculous one in the face of what labourers deal with. It is in fact killing people, just not as quickly as a job site accident.

Sometimes I am writing and doing research 24 hours a day for several days in a row. I run out of time to sleep and it's a pain to shower or make something to eat. I try to save those events up. 1 meal a day, shower every couple of days ... if I am too busy what are you going to do? I sure as hell am glad I am not using all of my time to make pizza. Would that life ever suck unless my friends were by my side working with me. It would still be totally unsatisfying and I guess I would funnel all my angst into earning money so I could buy things to make me happy to make up for my absolute shit job and life. Retail solves everything for people with unsatisfying lives ... or does it? Is that the grievance? That no one is happy with their lives but at least they have money, and if they don't have money, their lifestyle has zero appeal? The happiness that money brings is that fragile?

I do my own stuff between 8 pm and 4 am and from noon - 8 pm I do whatever ... people drop by, I help. It's random. No boss though. If I wake up at 7 or something I don't go back to bed. I don't sleep a lot. Does that make me different from other people? I have just gotten used to not wasting time on sleep. There are too many things I am excited about. I want to help people. Is making pizza and becoming successful like this? I don't have a lot of time. I don't take a weekend, all the days are the same to me. I would hate to be so bummed out about my job that I just lay on the couch in front of the tv for hours after work every night and all day all weekend. To be that burnt out ... for nothing. For success! I would be sooo successful. I am not buying it.

People don't want to do what makes them happy because it doesn't pay well. Money is not the only payoff in life. It is possible to be dirt poor and thoroughly happy, as long as your needs are met, you have your health, and you have your family and friends around you, and you have culture. Not retail, culture.

When we take the focus off of money we have community and culture to sustain us. We like each other more, we want to help each other more, and we want to share more, especially our good fortune.

If all that matters to you in life is money, the more you get the more it pulls you away from other people and puts up walls. Security guards and security systems, guns, all to keep all others out of our lives. This is what people aspire to? They want to be alone, hated, envied, isolated, aggrieved, but at least they have money? They don't want a wealth tax because there is only one thing that gives them meaning in life, and that is the dopamine rush they get from clicking "buy now." They need to click that button all the time or their life is entirely without thrill.

They call that "being successful."

A UBI and a Wealth Tax will help shift our twisted culture. We need change. People need better lives and wealthy people don't actually need the money they are clinging to. They need to be brought into the community and culture and be a part of it and be embraced by it, and find the thrill of it all instead of living in their unhappy bubbles full of grievances against others, when really it is their own lives that they designed themselves are causing them so much sadness.
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Sep 1, 2013
834 posts
270 upvotes
Mississauga
The middle class in this country are already asked to pay far more than they can afford, and it negatively impacts their standard of living. Nearly half of Canadian households are as little as $200 away from insolvency. This is nothing to do with jealousy or bitterness; I honestly couldn't care less how "well" some people might be doing compared to me; it's a silly debate point. The economic reality is, the only ones who have the fiscal capacity to pay any more without actually impacting their standard of living are the super rich. COVID has put our society in a precarious position in terms of debt, and ultimately some are going to have to pay more to help with this than others. The middle class have already been paying far too much, for far too long. There's really not any more there to tax. Wages for many are mostly stagnant, and some luckier folks get annual raises that at least keep up with inflation. Meanwhile, the pay of the top 1% grows at an almost exponential rate; all while the population continues to increase and there are more and more people fighting amongst themselves for the leftover scraps.

The many tax breaks enjoyed by the wealthy and corporations aren't the sole culprit, but they're a significant reason of why that's happening. The wealthy could never have accumulated their wealth without the stability afforded by society, and they should be contributing back to it on the level of what they got out. There was a time in the past when things were a little more balanced, but over the last 50-60 years the level of inequality has increased too far. Sure, if they want they can get selfish and try to hide this mass of accumulated wealth even deeper. And perhaps society can descend into anarchy when this is all over, their money can become meaningless, and without the government or police to protect them they'll have to fend for themselves against the masses.
Last edited by TM2Megatron on Sep 18th, 2020 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Fanatic
Nov 15, 2008
8949 posts
3296 upvotes
random pattern wrote: That’s it? That’s all you’ve got? That’s all you’re doing and you’re on a rant?

Have you even ever gone hungry? What do you know of poverty? You feel good about yourself because you give your computer away away? Awww, poor guy - old computer not fast enough for you? Patting yourself on the back because you gave a book away - others are stuffing their pants with pages from books to stay warm. But hey, good for you, you gave a way a book. See how your perspective works?

Have you ever needed to be on the receiving end? Sounds like you grew up with a silver spoon in your mouth. Hypocrite. What’s your biggest stress this week? What book to give away? Sounds like you’re living in a bubble of your own and need to be educated. Again, see how your perspective works?

Pretty small minded of you if you can’t understand that there are some that weren’t born with all the advantages you’re assuming (e.g. think third world not first world) become wealthy and have no issues with giving back. Get off your high horse - you’re not the only one who gives back. You think you’re the only one who volunteers? How many times have you opened your doors to people that have nowhere to sleep?

The irony is, many (not all) wealthy are making a bigger difference than you because they are contributing more (and I’m not talking about just taxes) as well as contributing time and efforts. Try coming back when you’ve contributed a meaningful amount of money and time.
Last year I made $13k. I have been living on that or less for 14 years. This all started when I went through a hard time; I hit up and used a women's shelter, a homeless shelter, and Ontario Works. When I did get back on my feet I realized that I wasn't going to find happiness in an IT job in Mississauga, ever, but I sure as hell could help out a lot of people with my IT skills. I also had IT criticisms I wanted to write: I spend a lot of time analyzing the data websites and retailers collect from us, looking at their algorithms, examining the impacts of programs on the poor, and playing with a big ball of data that it has taken me a decade to collect. I have been working to present what I have learned to people. I have contributed 10 solid years to seeking social justice, to trying to understand the drug and addiction situation, the medial and psychiatric and prison systems, the social assistance systems like OW, ODSP, and CPP-D. You want me to come back when I have contributed a meaningful amount of time? I just made a trip to the can and I'm back. Here we go.

I fully intend to make a bigger difference than the wealthy bastards you praise. Just you watch.

Yes, I have had days where I had absolutely no money and no food and that is why I seek to help people that find themselves in the same position. We want to get people past the worst of things as quickly as possible. I have some insights. I haven't had anyone stay overnight but I am currently offering up my shower to someone every other day because the public showers were closed due to COVID and this guy had no other recourse. I think he is ok now. I haven't seen him lately.

The government's mistake is that you cannot administrate poverty. I am in it. I am embedded in poverty but I don't feel poor. I totally understand the lifestyle though and poor people have helped me thrive on no money as much as I have helped them get the hep they need.

If everybody was busted down to $13k a year and money could not be a measure of success, how would you measure these people against each other? I mean, apart from money, how are we different? I think a lot of people who spend their lives chasing after money are empty and resentful and easily threatened. They haven't done anything to build their knowledge of things outside the box to box lifestyle (house to office) and they really haven't developed their personalities and characters fully. They are greedy and suspicious because they know without money they are nothing special even if money makes them a success today. They know the truth. That's the grievance.
Deal Fanatic
Nov 15, 2008
8949 posts
3296 upvotes
TM2Megatron wrote: The middle class in this country are already asked to pay far more than they can afford, and it negatively impacts their standard of living. Nearly half of Canadian households are as little as $200 away from insolvency. This is nothing to do with jealousy or bitterness; I honestly couldn't care less how "well" some people might be doing compared to me; it's a silly debate point. The economic reality is, the only ones who have the fiscal capacity to pay any more without actually impacting their standard of living are the super rich. COVID has put our society in a precarious position in terms of debt, and ultimately some are going to have to pay more to help with this than others. The middle class have already been paying far too much, for far too long. There's really not any more there to tax. Wages for many are mostly stagnant, and some luckier folks get annual raises that at least keep up with inflation. Meanwhile, the pay of the top 1% grows at an almost exponential rate; all while the population continues to increase and there are more and more people fighting amongst themselves for the leftover scraps.

The many tax breaks enjoyed by the wealthy and corporations aren't the sole culprit, but they're a significant reason of why that's happening. The wealthy could never have accumulated their wealth without the stability afforded by society, and they should be contributing back to it on the level of what they got out. There was a time in the past when things were a little more balanced, but over the last 50-60 years the level of inequality has increased too far. Sure, if they want they can get selfish and try to hide this mass of accumulated wealth even deeper. And perhaps society can descend into anarchy when this is all over, their money can become meaningless, and without the government or police to protect them they'll have to find for themselves against the masses.
Don't forget, you have kid in school and living in their parents basements until they are 25-30 because it takes so long to train for a professional job. Kids start working years later than their parents did, it's a long slog, there is huge debt, and there is a huge pressure to come out of the whole thing a winner because the whole adventure involves a hell of a lot of debt. They get out of school and the first thing they must confront is the necessity of a car loan and mortgage. That's a segment of the middle class right there. They are totally in the rat race. Everybody is "succeeding" but it's a bit of a death march and you can't back out because once you have debt you just have to keep moving forward on the same tack to recover from debt. The middle class is being squeezed harder than anyone by increased costs because of education costs and how long their kids are leeches before they are earners. Your ability to do all of this is dependent on your parent's wealth. Parents drive kids on the rat trace track. Kids are questioning things now. They are really not sure that this is all worth it after all.

Wages are horrific. Workers pay twice the tax on their income that people earning off of investments do. The middle class is living in a sort of genteel poverty because they have all of their middle class things still, but they have no spare money.
Deal Fanatic
Nov 15, 2008
8949 posts
3296 upvotes
Look at this people:

The 100 wealthiest Americans made $300 billion in the 6 months we have been dealing with COVID and Trump wants to give them $29 billion in tax refunds.

People in this thread don't think it's fair to tax the wealthy because they "pay their fair share."

Do these people earn a "fair share"?

Should these 100 guys really be exempt from pitching in?

They are only earning an average of $500 million each per month. Trump wants to pitch them another $48 million each per month.

That's something under $20 million per day per person though. Surely they need government assistance, they are struggling.

Trump could give every single American a tax refund of $88, or he could give 100 guys $290 million each. He wants to help out the 100 guys.

Deal Fanatic
Apr 11, 2006
8159 posts
2852 upvotes
Mississauga
lecale wrote: Hey, buddy, I grew up in Caledon. I had my own pony. Did you have a pony?

Sounds like no. Don't be jealous though because they are not a good time. When I was in my teens I liked to read a lot and I signed up to teach illiterate adults how to read because THAT was fun. I found that myself. No one even gave me a hint.

You are honestly going to cry to me about OT and job interviews and shitty seasonal retail jobs?? This is the greatest hardship you ever faced that you can lay out for me?

If a labourer takes a shitty job with a company that is dodgy on health and safety because there is no other choice available to them, they are agreeing to accept the risk of being killed or maimed, often for minimum wage. How's the Christmas rush at Indigo. Is it that tough?

Do you know there is an entire class of labourers using opioids every day to get by the pain of repetitive stress and other injuries, or using amphetamines to provide the alertness required for something incredibly boring and incredibly dangerous at the same time? These guys are ok as long as they limit themselves to using drugs on workdays, but if they party on the weekend with the same stuff they can fall into tolerance and addiction. Ever chase your spouse around town while they were on a 3 week crack cocaine bender, just trying to make sure they don't get killed or kill someone else? I mean God's love, keep them away from the cops or they might end up shot dead. Of course you have all your family and friends in on this too, trying to get a handle on an activated, agitated, paranoid, violent person that also happens to be your best buddy and true love, they are just not themselves this month. As soon as you figure out where he's getting the drugs from you will sic the cops on that person, but right now you don't know and someone keeps feeding the crisis. I have seen this play out. Have you had tough times like this? These are not gangsters and partiers, they are good solid blue-collar small-town old stock Canadians that fell into a trap that a lot of people have fallen into in these times.

37.5 hours. Crack cocaine binges are 24 hours x 7 days x as long as they are strung along by someone who puts money before community. Let's call it one 500 hour long day, because the guy never takes a break. You think you had a hard week. This guy had a hard week. All of his family and friends had a hard week. You didn't even know about it.

There are actually people counting on me to tell people their story now. They want people to know. They want you to know.

I am anti-envy. All of our furniture is made from solid wood furniture that was thrown on the street on garbage day. We took it apart and rebuilt to purpose. I donate as much as possible so I am not drowning in junk. I read a book, I give it away. I upgrade my computer, I pluck someone off the street and hand them specifications and teach them what they've got and tell them to go out there and make some money if they can off it, or at least find the thing a good home. It's worked out better than donating to Value Village. I ordinarily do not take a cut. I call people to pick up my leftovers the second I am tired of them so somebody eats them and they do not go to waste. People are stuck on cashflow but I am all about junkflow, baby. Get this shit out of here. I don't want to be one of those guys with a garage full of plastic bins full of stuff I never look at and a green bin loaded to the tits.

Start here, people: https://www.amazon.ca/Life-Changing-Mag ... 1607747308

I rejected the pursuit of money. I do not want retail, I want culture.

Retail is when you buy your kid a slot racecar track and he is sick of it in a week and you buy him a model and it's pure ennui and you give him a wood burning kit and it's new, new, new!! And none of it captures the kid's attention.

Pop culture is when the kid gets all those things, but a little used and battered, and soon enough he is using the wood burring tool to melt and remodel his slot cars, the model kit paints to paint them, and the kid is engaged and making things week after week.

People are too stuck on the thrill of clicking the "buy now" button because shopping is really and truly a dopamine booster. It's the same as a little shot of cocaine. They both boost dopamine. They thrill us. That is what money can do for you - it can give you the thrill of the buy.

You do not have to have money to have a very rich culture and culture is what makes us life and thrive.

People have to break out of the money cult. Can you see where I am coming from?
Nobody is crying. But you seem to be crying.

Funny how you talk about upgrading and getting rid of stuff, junkflow as you say. Seems like you buy a lot to give a lot.

Try buying less and giving money instead of your used crap because you keep upgrading.

I don't see where you're coming from because i don't buy new stuff to have to constantly give away used stuff. I prefer to give more in money and volunteer instead.

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