Green / Eco-Friendly

How many KWh do you use in a day?

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Oct 9, 2010
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Is your dryer electric? If so, they draw a considerable amount of power, and for a pretty long duration. Realistically, it's like 2.5-3kWh/load. In your case, if your machine is larger, maybe it's more?

34kWh/day is diabolical. That's 24h of 1.5kW of draw (or, if just counting the waking hours, ~2.1kW of continuous draw), which seems insane; you only have maybe 10kWh accounted for with your additional use.

It's all but guaranteed you have some kind of electrical heating element somewhere in your house; in-floor heating (kitchen/bathroom, if anywhere generally), auxiliary heating through a heat pump, a baseboard heater in a wall in a utility room/crawlspace, etc. Either that or you're charging an electric car. Do you have your thermostat set to heat/cool, or just heat? It should be set to heat right now, to ensure your A/C unit outside is not turning turning on (which would be "bad"). Do you have a hottub? Pool? Heating elements on the roof to melt snow? Any kind of device that heats your garage? Towel heater?

If you can't find auxiliary heating elements normally, I suggest going to your breaker box and looking for anything that is greater than 15A; this might help you find circuits that are designed for heavy use, and thus potentially could account for your odd situation (especially if everything is labelled). Notable circuits that will be greater than 15A, really heavy hitters will be linked together (two breakers side-by-side will move together). Normal "large" circuits would be A/C, stove, dryer (if electric), sub-panel (if present), any breaker for the kitchen. If you see anything labelled "heat", that's a for-sure place to look.

Edit: For reference .... I have a 1,250sq.ft 1970s brick ranch home ... 1 gas stove, 1 electric, gas forced air, all LED lights, 2 plasma TVs, an always-on server/Internet/smart home setup that draws about 100w continuously. On XMas day, I cooked for 37 people; both TVs on all day, all the lights on basically, and both ovens/ranges running for like 7 hours (many oven items: turkey being one, but lots of frozen stuff like lasagnas, meaning even more power use as the oven tries to thaw them), electric warming trays, an auxiliary fridge from like 1970 for drinks was plugged in, and a bunch of other stuff I don't remember I am sure. My normal use is about 9-11kWh, that day was 19kWh. The GF also did her hair at ~1am that morning. There's no way your use accounts for 28kWh.

Edit2: As for one of your devices leeching power like mad: it would have to be drawing an insane amount of power. Imagine it's your laptop: if it was on for like 5 hours, it would need to be drawing 3.6kW to account for your additional usage.
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Not so easy there Ma…
xjesterxx wrote: I managed to get it down to 6 KWH for an entire 24H period.

Yesterday I was off and home all day - I used 34 KWH.

That includes 2 loads of laundry, heating up the oven to 400f for 10 minutes, watching TV and using my laptop... Still seems insanely high. I feel like one of my devices is leeching electricity like mad when it's plugged in - I'll look into the Kill-A-Watt to see if maybe I can get my hands on one to search out the issue.
Àre you sure you have a gas water heater and not electric?
Another thought is the dryer setting you are using is causing excessive consumption or maybe the dryer has an automatic setting and the moisture sensor has an issue.
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Not so easy there Ma…
ChubChub wrote:
For comparison, I am able to stay under 11kWh/day easily, in a 1970s brick ranch 1,250sq.ft home that is definitely a lot less efficient than your 2017 home (even considering the size difference), and my GF pretty much is anti-conservation (blowdryer, flat iron, lights on all the time, fans on at night for no reason, etc etc). On "my" end, I have a 24/7 running 12C server, a bunch of working-from-home related equipment (NAS, switches, AP, etc), a "lot" of home automation (using 3kWh cumulatively/day alone), and I have always worked from home, keeping the house at 20.5°C always during the heating season.

Natural gas High ranch bungalow? I was contemplating one. What was your yearly cost and do you know how many cubic meters?

Insulated basement I presume. Any idea of insulation levels in walls or ceiling? 20.5 C at night too?

Windows updated or original aluminum?
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fergy wrote: Natural gas High ranch bungalow? I was contemplating one. What was your yearly cost and do you know how many cubic meters?

Insulated basement I presume. Any idea of insulation levels in walls or ceiling? 20.5 C at night too?

Windows updated or original aluminum?
Realtors love their home definitions. My main floor is 3 steps above grade (most of my house) with a room at the back that was added at time of build that is 1 step above grade. Gas furnace, HWT, dryer (which we do not use a lot; we use lines in the basement, or outside, generally), 1 NG fireplace pilot on from ~Nov. to ~May; I grabbed a random bill and figured my yearly is about 2,600cu·ft of NG. Jul/Aug/Sept/Oct daily average was 0.8cu·ft/day, so that's essentially my HWT.

Basement is either R10 (previous owners) or R24 (about 50/50); headers sealed and insulated to R24 minimum (this was completed in October-ish, so my averages should reduce slightly). Walls are R12, ceiling WAS R12, now R50. The ceiling surface of my home is plastic wrapped, not sure if the external surface is (logically the answer is "yes"). Windows are original Pella 2-pane windows (interior pane is removable for cleaning, so they're not argon filled or anything fancy). Seals are all still good (verified by me), and when I did a home efficiency test, the windows were AOK. Unfortunately I don't have a good baseline of home leakage because I had ENORMOUS leaks (vertical stack, and a few doors, namely) that have since been resolved, so my old numbers are useless.

We do not adjust temperatures in our house, mostly because of the GF (picky). During the winter, 69°F (20.5°C). FWIW: During the summer, I THINK 74°F (23.5°C), but my Nest schedule shows 72°F (22.5°C), so I'm not sure.

Edit: Yearly cost? NG was $88/mo. equal billing most of last year. However, it is now $44/mo. despite ~10% reduction in usage The mathematicians at my gas company probably stopped school right around Gr. 5, so their ability to track averages are pretty weak. Their site is also not working right now, which is pretty normal really, but I figure my average is around $65/mo. (over the years, my EBP has been wildly hovering around that). This cost does not really apply to anyone that lives anywhere except exactly where I live, however, since utilities will rip you off in numerous ways to push the balance of fees between specific parties. My home is "more expensive than average" by my city's standards, so I get more "fixed costs" than my neighbour does.
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ChubChub wrote: .
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Edit: Yearly cost? NG was $88/mo. equal billing most of last year. However, it is now $44/mo. despite ~10% reduction in usage The mathematicians at my gas company probably stopped school right around Gr. 5, so their ability to track averages are pretty weak. Their site is also not working right now, which is pretty normal really, but I figure my average is around $65/mo. (over the years, my EBP has been wildly hovering around that). This cost does not really apply to anyone that lives anywhere except exactly where I live, however, since utilities will rip you off in numerous ways to push the balance of fees between specific parties. My home is "more expensive than average" by my city's standards, so I get more "fixed costs" than my neighbour does.
LOL... Your comment about Enbridge equal billing got me riled up. I feel your pain because they screwed up my numbers too and when I called them to correct it they told me their algorithm is accurate.

Previous years equal billing was $80-90/mth but this last cycle from September 2019 my equal billing has been $44/mth. They were undercharging so now by end of April my actual natural gas charges totaled $640 but my installment only totaled $264. Now they are hiking my equal billing payment to $100+ to catch up before the end of the cycle.

I've been using Enbridge's budget billing for 9 years and it has been great. They previously called it budget billing plan (BBP) but now for 2020 they call it Equal Monthly Payment Plan (EMPP) and their estimates are way off.
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bubuski wrote: I've been using Enbridge's budget billing for 9 years and it has been great. They previously called it budget billing plan (BBP) but now for 2020 they call it Equal Monthly Payment Plan (EMPP) and their estimates are way off.
At first, they charged me $62/mo based on previous owner I assume. Ok. I overpaid a bit, so they reduced it to $35 for a few months, then back to $62: amazing. Their guess was about perfect come next recalculation round (I slightly overpaid), so they curiously upped it to $87/mo (vs. maybe $68 which would have made more sense). Honestly, who cares, whatever, they'll figure it out, right? At the next recalculation, I obviously overpaid, so I had a free month, then back to $64 for a few months, then back to $80. Obviously overpaid a lot again, so another 1.5 free months, and they increased it AGAIN to $88 (despite my consumption going down YoY). I obviously overpaid, so another free month, and now I'm on $44, which is almost definitely underpaying.

It just seems so odd; how is it EBP when it's constantly changing every 6 months? How can "add previous 12 months of real bills, divide by 12, and add some amount of 'insurance' so they're not underpaying" be so hard? I am reasonably certain they're using EBP to use people as free loans, as it's impossible I am not the only one this is happening to. At one point, I was up $217 more than I used. Assuredly when someone is ~3x their EBP in overage, you have to assume something is very wrong.

If it goes back to $88-ish, I am going to abolish EBP because I'd rather deal with the increased costs during the winter (no A/C, so they're basically opposite each other anyways), and just pay what I actually owe.
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Not so easy there Ma…
I dropped the equal billing plan last year and send the meter reading in. There's an option online you can check off to send to your email address meter reading reminders. My meter is right by the front walk.
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May 23, 2009
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fergy wrote: I dropped the equal billing plan last year and send the meter reading in. There's an option online you can check off to send to your email address meter reading reminders. My meter is right by the front walk.
I already send my actual meter read, monthly for the past 9 years. The equal billing wont make a difference there as it is supposed to equalize my monthly payments so I'm not paying more in the winter and much less in the summer.
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bubuski wrote: I already send my actual meter read, monthly for the past 9 years. The equal billing wont make a difference there as it is supposed to equalize my monthly payments so I'm not paying more in the winter and much less in the summer.
Well, you're paying less in the winter, but a lot more in the summer.
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Sep 27, 2006
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Not so easy there Ma…
ChubChub wrote: Realtors love their home definitions. My main floor is 3 steps above grade (most of my house) with a room at the back that was added at time of build that is 1 step above grade. Gas furnace, HWT, dryer (which we do not use a lot; we use lines in the basement, or outside, generally), 1 NG fireplace pilot on from ~Nov. to ~May; I grabbed a random bill and figured my yearly is about 2,600cu·ft of NG. Jul/Aug/Sept/Oct daily average was 0.8cu·ft/day, so that's essentially my HWT.

Basement is either R10 (previous owners) or R24 (about 50/50); headers sealed and insulated to R24 minimum (this was completed in October-ish, so my averages should reduce slightly). Walls are R12, ceiling WAS R12, now R50. The ceiling surface of my home is plastic wrapped, not sure if the external surface is (logically the answer is "yes"). Windows are original Pella 2-pane windows (interior pane is removable for cleaning, so they're not argon filled or anything fancy). Seals are all still good (verified by me), and when I did a home efficiency test, the windows were AOK. Unfortunately I don't have a good baseline of home leakage because I had ENORMOUS leaks (vertical stack, and a few doors, namely) that have since been resolved, so my old numbers are useless.

We do not adjust temperatures in our house, mostly because of the GF (picky). During the winter, 69°F (20.5°C). FWIW: During the summer, I THINK 74°F (23.5°C), but my Nest schedule shows 72°F (22.5°C), so I'm not sure.

Edit: Yearly cost? NG was $88/mo. equal billing most of last year. However, it is now $44/mo. despite ~10% reduction in usage The mathematicians at my gas company probably stopped school right around Gr. 5, so their ability to track averages are pretty weak. Their site is also not working right now, which is pretty normal really, but I figure my average is around $65/mo. (over the years, my EBP has been wildly hovering around that). This cost does not really apply to anyone that lives anywhere except exactly where I live, however, since utilities will rip you off in numerous ways to push the balance of fees between specific parties. My home is "more expensive than average" by my city's standards, so I get more "fixed costs" than my neighbour does.
I'm totally familiar with that type of Pella Window, the majority of the ones here are that type. Inner removable with metal frame and rubber gasket that mount in the wood frame. I hate them. This place has high humidity levels and moisture gets between the panes in the fall. I swear they hired a true imbecil who designed them.

You surprised with the minimal R12 in the ceiling. I would have thought even in the mid 70's that R20 would have been up there. Good to know in a bad way though. :p What was the cost to do the insulation upgrades? Any breakdown? I could see doing the attic in most of the bungalows. Basement and headers depending on accessibility. Any spray foam used? I gather works quite well for the headers.

Your ceiling is plastic wrapped? Was this done as part of the insulation upgrade? Not sure how that would work unless the existing insulation in attic removed and plastic put down, sealed at seams and then re-insulated. Maybe you meant there was plastic up there from the original build?

What do you mean by leaky vertical stack? Google didn't help me out with vertical stack.
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fergy wrote: I'm totally familiar with that type of Pella Window, the majority of the ones here are that type. Inner removable with metal frame and rubber gasket that mount in the wood frame. I hate them. This place has high humidity levels and moisture gets between the panes in the fall. I swear they hired a true imbecil who designed them.

You surprised with the minimal R12 in the ceiling. I would have thought even in the mid 70's that R20 would have been up there. Good to know in a bad way though. :p What was the cost to do the insulation upgrades? Any breakdown? I could see doing the attic in most of the bungalows. Basement and headers depending on accessibility. Any spray foam used? I gather works quite well for the headers.

Your ceiling is plastic wrapped? Was this done as part of the insulation upgrade? Not sure how that would work unless the existing insulation in attic removed and plastic put down, sealed at seams and then re-insulated. Maybe you meant there was plastic up there from the original build?

What do you mean by leaky vertical stack? Google didn't help me out with vertical stack.
Where I live, the humidity doesn't seem to get between the panes, so maybe I'm lucky? I clean all 4 surfaces at least yearly, and I blew the spiders out of the vents when I bought the place 5 years ago.

In my attic, there were a number of spots that had 0 insulation (bad installers). I did a thermal scan of the house in the winter and, thankfully, the walls seem generally fine. I only "know" the walls are R12 because I can see the insulation exposed in some areas from above. The cost was minimal to upgrade the ceiling to R50, maybe $1k? It was free after the Save On Energy thing they did a few years ago. I honestly can't remember the total cost, but it wasn't nutty expensive, and it was relatively painless to do. I did batts, and I went up there myself and did it, both of which were stupid; definitely get the blown in stuff. I did have to install those vent thingies into my attic (to allow the soffit vents to easily access the attic space after I added more insulation), those were annoying to install.

For the headers, I had a LOT of spare insulation, so I cut 1" foam insulation to roughly fit in the holes, then sprayed the edges to fill with Great Stuff. A more expensive, but more effective and faster option, is to pay someone to spray them; doing it again, I'd pay for that service.

As for the plastic: If you climb into the attic, and move insulation, I can see that, between the "drywall" and the 2x6s, there is plastic sandwiched. My house is plaster, but it is plastered onto what looks like drywall. Not sure why it was done this way, but that's how it is.

Vertical stack is probably the wrong word. I had a furnace and HWT that used a chimney in the middle of my house (metal tube, 10" diameter-ish). I have since upgraded to a different style of HWT, and a high efficiency furnace, so this chimney is not serving any purpose. The area this 10" pipe used was about 2' x 2', uninsulated, and not sealed whatsoever. I sealed it, insulated it, and turned it into a linen closet/laundry chute, thus eliminating a ~2' x 2' hole in my house.
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ChubChub wrote: Well, you're paying less in the winter, but a lot more in the summer.
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Now that I have had my monitoring system going for awhile I seem to use about 25-30KWh a day, the worst day I have on record is 59KWh in a day. I am disabled so I am pretty much home 24/7 with my TV and entertainment unit on from 8am-midnight, a 200-400W load depending on what I am doing. I have an idle consumption of about 350W which I hate but cant do too much to fix it. My biggest surprise was how much power my APC UPS for my entertainment unit uses when it is on but nothing connected to it is. I wish I wrote it down but I feel like it was somewhere around 30W just sitting there doing nothing and I have 4 of them in my house so I am looking into consolidating them into maybe 1 or two.

The house was built in the 70's but I have done quite a bit of work to seal it up and insulate it. Nat gas was down 30% this year and now it should be air tight enough to put in heat pumps and not need the natural gas anymore. The major power consumers in the house are:

Electric car (before lockdown was 8-10KWh a day, now maybe 3)
electric water heater
1 fridge, 2 chest freezers
Radon fan
networking gear

Looking forward to getting solar installed in the future to help offset a lot of this.
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Mar 26, 2019
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xjesterxx wrote: I managed to get it down to 6 KWH for an entire 24H period.

Yesterday I was off and home all day - I used 34 KWH.

That includes 2 loads of laundry, heating up the oven to 400f for 10 minutes, watching TV and using my laptop... Still seems insanely high. I feel like one of my devices is leeching electricity like mad when it's plugged in - I'll look into the Kill-A-Watt to see if maybe I can get my hands on one to search out the issue.
I'm in a similar situation. I've been reading my meter daily to try to track down what our usage is and yesterday we used no A/C, no oven, no laundry and the 24h usage was 19kwh. I need to go around and start unplugging things to figure out what is the draw.
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KatelynS58994 wrote: I'm in a similar situation. I've been reading my meter daily to try to track down what our usage is and yesterday we used no A/C, no oven, no laundry and the 24h usage was 19kwh. I need to go around and start unplugging things to figure out what is the draw.
Electric hot water tank? Pool/sauna heater/pump?

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