Personal Finance

How to tell if T4s and Paystubs are Fake?

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  • Dec 26th, 2020 8:33 pm
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[OP]
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Nov 2, 2017
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How to tell if T4s and Paystubs are Fake?

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Last edited by Getbread on Jan 25th, 2021 7:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
43 replies
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Mar 23, 2008
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Getbread wrote: Good Afternoon,

I am about to lend a large amount of money to an individual, and they have provided their T4s and Paystubs.

I used the payroll calculator on the CRA website, and also a calculator to prepare T4s, and so far it seemed legit.

However, I googled the name of the company, and I couldn't find anything whatsoever!


Paystubs:

The hourly total earnings on their most recent paystub (Dec 17) is $ 55, 512 (net pay is 46,940.57), which co incides with the box 14 income of $ 60, 048.80 (?)

I can post more amounts if requested.

I am wondering if there is something I am missing?

Thanks and have a merry Christmas!!
If you can't find the company and call someone to verify their employment, I'd give it a pass.

And I would NOT take a phone number from the person as the contact number for the company. If you ever watched Seinfeld, the name "Vandalay Industries" may ring a bell...


C
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Getbread wrote: However, I googled the name of the company, and I couldn't find anything whatsoever!
I'd give it a pass too.
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If you want to be super tight (like mortgage lenders do)...

Get T1s and NOAs. 3-way the CRA with the borrower and confirm income with them.

Not sure why you can't find the company though...that's a redflag.
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
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Don't loan anyone money. If you cannot afford to gift it do not loan it.

Here is an article about cosigning, but it still applies to your situation as you are trusting someone with a large amount of money who may be lying to you.
http://eclecticsite.com/cosigning.html
In fact in Rand McNally they wear hats on their feet and hamburders eat people
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Dec 24, 2007
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Getbread wrote: However, I googled the name of the company, and I couldn't find anything whatsoever!
You can't go by that alone as lots of companies don't have an internet presence, not scooped up into Google net, or operate under a different name.

If you're lending to someone you don't know and don't get any security on the loan, you're taking a big risk. They can default the very next day and good luck trying to get any money back.
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Feb 17, 2017
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CdnRealEstateGuy wrote: If you want to be super tight (like mortgage lenders do)...

Get T1s and NOAs. 3-way the CRA with the borrower and confirm income with them.

Not sure why you can't find the company though...that's a redflag.
As somene who used to be involved with background checks, It's actually not that unusual. Not every company has a web presence, and in many instances the the pay stub may have the parent company listed, when you'd really only find one of their brands online.

For the OP, does the paystub have a phone number on as you may be able to reverse check to the phone number to see who it belongs to?
[OP]
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Nov 2, 2017
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CdnRealEstateGuy wrote: If you want to be super tight (like mortgage lenders do)...

Get T1s and NOAs. 3-way the CRA with the borrower and confirm income with them.

Not sure why you can't find the company though...that's a redflag.
So you mean have them call the cra and put you on 3 way?

What if the tax return was prepared by a CPA? That should be sufficient assurance.
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CanadianSpruce wrote: As somene who used to be involved with background checks, It's actually not that unusual. Not every company has a web presence, and in many instances the the pay stub may have the parent company listed, when you'd really only find one of their brands online.

For the OP, does the paystub have a phone number on as you may be able to reverse check to the phone number to see who it belongs to?
I would disagree. I've been a mortgage broker for 11 years plus. I always Google employment info and 99% of the time I can find something, unless the person is self-employed (and even then, you can find something).

Lenders do that same. The underwriter Googles the company. If they can't find anything, then a lot of questions will have to be answered.

Not saying 100% of the time you will find something online, but in this day in age, you can usually find something on Google with most companies.
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
Principal Broker - First Toronto Mortgage - MA (Ontario #13176, BC #X301007)
Real Estate Salesperson - Century 21 Innovative
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Getbread wrote: So you mean have them call the cra and put you on 3 way?

What if the tax return was prepared by a CPA? That should be sufficient assurance.
Well, no on just seeing that a CPA prepared the returns as being ok - to be sure it’s legit you’d then have to check out that the CPA is real and actually prepared the returns. You’d start be seeing that they’re on the rolls for their professional association and go from there to check they have an office, then phone to confirm that they prepared the returns.

Back to the paystubs & T-4s, is there an address on them for the employer? If so, you can do a Google street view search on the address to see if that looks legit for the company in question. I wouldn’t rely on it being for sure if you see something that matches, it’s better to use this approach to see if there’s something that strikes it out as being legit.
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Getbread wrote: So you mean have them call the cra and put you on 3 way?

What if the tax return was prepared by a CPA? That should be sufficient assurance.
Yes, you can do the 3-way with cra.

You can also look up the company online. If it’s federal, it’s free. If it’s provincial, you can buy a report (at least you have to buy it in Ontario).

Did you do a credit check? The check usually shows the current employer, but that might have outdated info.

You may also consider hiring someone to review his application, since it’s a large sum of money.
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
Principal Broker - First Toronto Mortgage - MA (Ontario #13176, BC #X301007)
Real Estate Salesperson - Century 21 Innovative
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Quentin5 wrote: Don't loan anyone money. If you cannot afford to gift it do not loan it.

Here is an article about cosigning, but it still applies to your situation as you are trusting someone with a large amount of money who may be lying to you.
http://eclecticsite.com/cosigning.html
Heck, they might be telling the truth and have good intentions. But a hiccup comes along and you may not see your money. I am curious, why hasn't said person gotten the money from a bank?
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Sep 14, 2012
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Getbread wrote: Good Afternoon,

I am about to lend a large amount of money to an individual, and they have provided their T4s and Paystubs.

I used the payroll calculator on the CRA website, and also a calculator to prepare T4s, and so far it seemed legit.

However, I googled the name of the company, and I couldn't find anything whatsoever!
Without getting CRA involved (and I doubt that they will confirm any information from someone else's T4), it is next to impossible to know if a T4 and paystub are fake.

I used to manage a restaurant (over 20 years ago) and created T4's for the employees and paystubs. The paystub was similar to what could have been a Word document with categories and monetary values and the company/restaurant logo. The blank T4 I got from Revenue Canada and entered the values to give to the employees that were deducted from their pay and that I paid them. Using these blank T4 which I obtained from Revenue Canada back then, I could have entered anything and just make the numbers seem plausible.

I would not risk lending a large amount of money to someone where you aren't prepared to either lose the money or lose the friend or family member or spend money to proceed with legal proceedings to get your money back. The person can be close to bankruptcy and then declare bankruptcy after you lend the money where you would be able to get very little of your money (if anything) back.

Someone can also easily fake a notice of assessment document. Simplistically speaking, it is just a Word document with numbers and categories on a blueish paper.

The only way to know if it is legitimate is if you watch them sign into their My CRA Account page and verify the values.
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Spiritwalker2222 wrote: Heck, they might be telling the truth and have good intentions. But a hiccup comes along and you may not see your money.
Loaning money is fraught with minefields.
It destroys friendships because the receiver can become resentful that they are pestered for money even if they signed something indicating monthly or regular payments. If its late so what, its not like the friend needed the money right away, they were able to loan it after all.
Crises come along and they can't make payments.
They sometimes think friends should forgive the remaining payments or extend the terms because its a good friend and thats what friends do.
They run into bad luck and can't pay.
The bank is coming after their house or car.
They or their spouse lose their jobs or the kids need some medical or sports equipment.
The computer or cell phone broke. As did their stove, car, roof, or whatever.
They had a hot tip on a stock and it didn't work out, ditto for casino gambling.
This is just the tip of the iceberg.

In all these cases and more the person who loaned the money is now the bad guy because they are kicking the debtor while they are down by demanding they stick to the repayment agreement (assuming it was even in writing).

Also if they are making good money why do they need a substantial loan?
I am curious, why hasn't said person gotten the money from a bank?
Thats whats addressed in the link i posted, if they can't get a loan from a bank it means they are statistically a poor credit risk determined by an institution that owes its survival to making loans and getting them repaid.
In fact in Rand McNally they wear hats on their feet and hamburders eat people
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Op, you are really brave doing this. I sure hope you are charging like 20% interest rate for such risky move
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Getbread wrote: So you mean have them call the cra and put you on 3 way?

What if the tax return was prepared by a CPA? That should be sufficient assurance.
you are better off throwing the money into the sea.
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cristianosham wrote: you are better off throwing the money into the sea.
The OP seems determined to do this, sometimes the only way to learn is from the school of hard knocks.
Lets hope this is not their life savings.
If it is its likely going to be extra painful :facepalm:
In fact in Rand McNally they wear hats on their feet and hamburders eat people
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Quentin5 wrote: The OP seems determined to do this, sometimes the only way to learn is from the school of hard knocks.
Lets hope this is not their life savings.
If it is its likely going to be extra painful :facepalm:
There must be a reason behind

Like are you going to lend money to a stranger for 5% interest without any collateral
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Jan 19, 2017
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Anything can be fake, even cash. Why not T4 and pat stubs.
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smartie wrote: There must be a reason behind
I would be interested in more context.
Like are you going to lend money to a stranger for 5% interest without any collateral
I don't loan anyone money.
I will help people apply for loans from legitimate institutions, i will teach how to budget, how to get by on less, how to apply for supports if applicable but i don't loan cash.
I also don't loan personal possessions, tools, my car or anything else.

But i will do favours, help them with my tools, grab something from the store i was going to anyways when they pay me and so forth.
In fact in Rand McNally they wear hats on their feet and hamburders eat people

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