Personal Finance

HSBC Premier+Jade Thread

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Sr. Member
Mar 22, 2004
845 posts
91 upvotes
Ottawa
gainsbarre wrote: Supplementary cards are eligible for airport lounge perks - I got a supplementary card for my father (who lives at a different address) and he was able to use Dragonpass for airport lounge access here in Canada and in Europe this past fall.

Oh and I heard from my RM that HSBC Metal cards will be arriving for all HSBC Jade Mastercard holders in March, even though my HSBC Jade card isn't expiring until much later this year.

IMG_0461.jpg
Woah! Should've just gotten a supplementary card... darn. Oh wells. BTW, the Jade Mastercard is already metal... unless you're referring to the debit card, which is similar design but plastic and no RFID to tap at merchant POSs :(
Member
Dec 27, 2017
411 posts
300 upvotes
Ontario
cuto wrote: Oh wells. BTW, the Jade Mastercard is already metal... unless you're referring to the debit card, which is similar design but plastic and no RFID to tap at merchant POSs :(
I'm guessing gainsbarre was referring to the changes coming February 1st where they are changing the name (and some details) of the HSBC Jade World Elite Mastercard to HSBC Metal World Elite Mastercard. Some explanation of the changes: https://www.hsbc.ca/content/dam/hsbc/ca ... nge-en.pdf
Newbie
May 31, 2018
63 posts
62 upvotes
Calgary
Optimizer88 wrote: I'm guessing gainsbarre was referring to the changes coming February 1st where they are changing the name (and some details) of the HSBC Jade World Elite Mastercard to HSBC Metal World Elite Mastercard. Some explanation of the changes: https://www.hsbc.ca/content/dam/hsbc/ca ... nge-en.pdf
Yes, what I was told by my RM was that all HSBC Jade Mastercard holders were going to be forced over to the new HSBC Metal Mastercard in March of this year. In my instance, my HSBC Jade Mastercard doesn't expire until several months later, but it sounds like the switchover will happen for all Jade cardholders at the same time.
Sr. Member
Sep 22, 2005
822 posts
220 upvotes
BC
I was thinking about what to do after RBC acquires HSBC later this year. I thought RBC private banking required very high asset level like TD. But it actually is very similar to HSBC according to its web site. The differences seem to be a monthly fee and only 120 dollars credit card AF reduction? So if Royal can waive the monthly fees, it's still a viable option? It saves headaches of moving things to other banks?
Deal Addict
May 13, 2005
4014 posts
4038 upvotes
Montreal
iceage wrote: I was thinking about what to do after RBC acquires HSBC later this year. I thought RBC private banking required very high asset level like TD. But it actually is very similar to HSBC according to its web site. The differences seem to be a monthly fee and only 120 dollars credit card AF reduction? So if Royal can waive the monthly fees, it's still a viable option? It saves headaches of moving things to other banks?
Hoping for RBC to waive the monthly fees isn't a solution as they're removing the mult-product waiving fee for their customers.
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/rbc-dis ... e-2460820/

I'm currently moving HSBC banking and HSBC InvestDirect from HSBC to Desjardins/Disnat with the Desjardins banking / credit card for professionals. This might take a month.
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/disnat- ... #p37061697
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/disnat- ... #p37072006

NBC having similar professionals banking / credit card package. If you have more than $250K assets, then NBC waive the credit card fee.
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/nationa ... #p37143806

I choose Desjardins over NBC. Probably, Desjardins is a little bit better and there is a way to have free US banking account and move USD from Canada Desjardins USD account to US Desjardins USD account free of charges.
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/disnat- ... #p37119689
Member
May 3, 2016
474 posts
58 upvotes
X360 wrote: Hoping for RBC to waive the monthly fees isn't a solution as they're removing the mult-product waiving fee for their customers.
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/rbc-dis ... e-2460820/

I'm currently moving HSBC banking and HSBC InvestDirect from HSBC to Desjardins/Disnat with the Desjardins banking / credit card for professionals. This might take a month.
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/disnat- ... #p37061697
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/disnat- ... #p37072006

NBC having similar professionals banking / credit card package. If you have more than $250K assets, then NBC waive the credit card fee.
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/nationa ... #p37143806

I choose Desjardins over NBC. Probably, Desjardins is a little bit better and there is a way to have free US banking account and move USD from Canada Desjardins USD account to US Desjardins USD account free of charges.
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/disnat- ... #p37119689
For NBC, if the credit card so applied is declined, there is still a monthly fee to the bank account package. This is what is deterring me from NBC.
Deal Addict
May 13, 2005
4014 posts
4038 upvotes
Montreal
wyho007 wrote: For NBC, if the credit card so applied is declined, there is still a monthly fee to the bank account package. This is what is deterring me from NBC.
I think if people able to obtain HSBC Premier World Elite or Jade credit card then I think they should qualify for NBC World Elite credit card.

However, we could always try to obtain NBC World Elite credit card before moving banking package to NBC.
Member
Dec 27, 2017
411 posts
300 upvotes
Ontario
iceage wrote: I was thinking about what to do after RBC acquires HSBC later this year. I thought RBC private banking required very high asset level like TD. But it actually is very similar to HSBC according to its web site. The differences seem to be a monthly fee and only 120 dollars credit card AF reduction? So if Royal can waive the monthly fees, it's still a viable option? It saves headaches of moving things to other banks?
I'm thinking about this too, as I don't have high hopes they will keep the benefits workable and in place.

In addition to the Desjardins/Disnat and NBC/NBDB options mentioned above I've heard from others in a similar position that they've opted for either CIBC or TD. (One went with NBC but used their "Private 1859" option that looks like it charges a lot of fees on the AUM and isn't very "RFD friendly.")

For CIBC they've been taking "Premium Edge" that has a minimum of $1M (just like Jade/PCS at HSBC), and with $2M it gives a personal trader at the CIBC IE discount brokerage to make things a bit higher touch and easier to do. It sounds like a pretty compelling set of perks overall and perhaps the best Canada-wide direct substitute with an extensive set of branches if needed. For TD they've been moving to private banking, that has a monthly fee unless you have a much higher relationship.

I'm leaning towards CIBC for now, but haven't pulled the trigger yet. I'm still mulling it all over and trying to figure out the best path with all of this uncertainty created by the RBC takeover.

In case it helps, Private 1859 is here: https://www.privatebanking1859.ca/
TD Private is here: https://www.td.com/ca/en/investing/weal ... management
CIBC Premium Edge doesn't have a website, but you just contact Investor's Edge and ask for it, and there is a thread here on it: https://forums.redflagdeals.com/cibc-pr ... 2224728/2/
Newbie
Aug 29, 2012
86 posts
75 upvotes
Toronto
I was working my way towards a Jade/HSBC global banking relationship when the news of RBCS acquisition came.

My plan was to stick with HSBC as i use them in other territories but iv started doing my own alternate research too.

Interestingly, a colleague told me they had recently done an online survey about some possible RBC banking bundles that included a variety of mixes of credit, investment and bank products to qualify for 0 fees, so it seems RBC are doing active research into a viable combined product that could be similar to the Premier/Advance offering though without the international reach I assume.

Outside of sticking to the HSBC/RBC rebranded product when it eventually rolls out, I have looked at other providers for a combined product and firstly looked at NBC and Desjardins as they seemed to be most similar in multiproduct packages. Of NBC / Desjardins I prefer the Desjardins packages though I appreciate it seems even with the professional/engineering plan or the signature banking plans you cannot completely avoid a monthly fee unless you hold cash in the bank account at least for the end of the month. (The Desjardins reps I spoke to told me they only do the qualifying balance check at month end and its not constantly checked through the month which seems different to what the other banks do though would still be a chore to ensure there is a sweep of funds in the account at that time). I think with NBC you can avoid the banking fee but pay for the credit card fee after year 1 so that would work at a minimum of $70 a year fee for banking and card which is still not bad.

I would also consider CIBC as they waive the account fees with the smartplus account subject to the 100K investment holding and CIBC has far more branches on the ground, but Id probably also open a self directed account with Desjardins to do no fee investments going from that point. The only snag with that plan is moving funds out of Desjardins or NBC investments would generate a cost if its not to one of their own accounts so life is never easy!

For me. the Desjardins accounts seem to have more perks, a better credit product selection, a self directed no fee product and extras such as identify theft protection thrown in. The downside is branch network is not widespread. They also have some interesting investment products such as structured investments not so widely sold by other banks at retail level.

For now im in wait and see mode. Ultimately Im a cheapskate so i like free stuff and though im tempted to open the Desjardins self directed investment account just to buy MFs with no buy in fee I will wait a bit longer to get a better lay of the land and potentially avoid adding more complexity to my financial life.
Deal Addict
Jan 31, 2007
4968 posts
5084 upvotes
Richmond Hill
No need to panic. We have long way to go.
The deal won't be finalize till end of this year.
Most likely we won't see real change till early 2024, most likely later.

So we do have time.
******************************************************
Bright side of RFD: Often find good deal
Dark side of RFD: Tons of stuff that I don't need but still got them because of RFD
******************************************************
Member
Jun 16, 2016
268 posts
297 upvotes
ottawa
X360 wrote: Hoping for RBC to waive the monthly fees isn't a solution as they're removing the mult-product waiving fee for their customers.
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/rbc-dis ... e-2460820/

I'm currently moving HSBC banking and HSBC InvestDirect from HSBC to Desjardins/Disnat with the Desjardins banking / credit card for professionals. This might take a month.
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/disnat- ... #p37061697
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/disnat- ... #p37072006

NBC having similar professionals banking / credit card package. If you have more than $250K assets, then NBC waive the credit card fee.
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/nationa ... #p37143806

I choose Desjardins over NBC. Probably, Desjardins is a little bit better and there is a way to have free US banking account and move USD from Canada Desjardins USD account to US Desjardins USD account free of charges.
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/disnat- ... #p37119689
Great summary. How about creating a new thread summarizing different bank selfdirect brokerage offering with banking/credit card benefits?
Churning: CIBC Aventura VI *2, CIBC Aeroplan VI
Member
Dec 27, 2017
411 posts
300 upvotes
Ontario
cheapshopper wrote: No need to panic. We have long way to go.
The deal won't be finalize till end of this year.
Most likely we won't see real change till early 2024, most likely later.

So we do have time.
Agreed. And it is likely some of the other banks/brokerages will smell the opportunity and perhaps create even better packages for those moving over, eh?
Deal Addict
Feb 10, 2018
1756 posts
1171 upvotes
X360 wrote: Hoping for RBC to waive the monthly fees isn't a solution as they're removing the mult-product waiving fee for their customers.
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/rbc-dis ... e-2460820/

I'm currently moving HSBC banking and HSBC InvestDirect from HSBC to Desjardins/Disnat with the Desjardins banking / credit card for professionals. This might take a month.
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/disnat- ... #p37061697
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/disnat- ... #p37072006

NBC having similar professionals banking / credit card package. If you have more than $250K assets, then NBC waive the credit card fee.
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/nationa ... #p37143806

I choose Desjardins over NBC. Probably, Desjardins is a little bit better and there is a way to have free US banking account and move USD from Canada Desjardins USD account to US Desjardins USD account free of charges.
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/disnat- ... #p37119689
Does Disnat offer LOC at prime? I got quite a nice unsecured LOC at NBC at prime but they Nickle and dime you. I paid a few bills from LOC since it acts like a chequing account and got charged 1.25 even having a Privilege plan.

I was thinking if I had to close my NBDB account+ privilege plan, where I would go? NBDB and Disnat are the same to me. Both cost $0 to buy index funds. Both have crappy margin rates - IBKR is superior in that sense.

Already have Desjardins VIP but even without NBC plan, NBC WE would still cost $0 after $150 annual rebate. I don't have enough assets for Disnat to qualify for signature series to reduce credit card fee for VIP further, which is 500,000 I believe.

Chequing accounts - those come by the dozens. Great free alternatives with EQ, Simplii, Tangerine.

Law services seem like an OK addon- they mostly try to get you fog the phone as quick as they can.

So in short, it I decide to cut LOC and leave NBC privilege plan, I could still just keep NBDB accounts and NBC WE without really paying any fees.
Deal Addict
Feb 10, 2018
1756 posts
1171 upvotes
wyho007 wrote: For NBC, if the credit card so applied is declined, there is still a monthly fee to the bank account package. This is what is deterring me from NBC.
What if you apply for a free card other than NBC WE? I think they have free cards. If you get approved, you will still qualify for account package.

Or if you get approved for unsecured line of credit, maybe they can do a credit split and move some of the credit limit like Scotiabank does?
Deal Addict
Feb 10, 2018
1756 posts
1171 upvotes
cheapshopper wrote: No need to panic. We have long way to go.
The deal won't be finalize till end of this year.
Most likely we won't see real change till early 2024, most likely later.

So we do have time.
No one is panicking. But the product offers between HSBC and RBC are miles apart. The chances of RBC delivering anything new beside their current offerings are quite small.
For example, RBC does not even offer no-fx cards like HSBC WE.

RBC's multi product rebate seemed like a mess to me last time I looked at it. Do they even have free chequing account or a free chequing account if you have investments like with HSBC Premier? The only big bank I know that does that is CIBC if you have over 100k with Investor's edge.

You can have multiple international accounts with HSBC. RBC does not have that only has RBC US based cards.

Those 3 things mean more to me. RBC is run of the mill Bank in Canadian landscape that does not deliver anything exceptional.

Putting my tinfoil hat on:

Credit cards will most likely get converted to Avion cards. FX feature will get eliminated.
HSBC premier-like service - will get cut.
International account feature - definitely cut.

I am just wondering when I need to cut ties with HSBC, since I will need to close international accounts as well such as HSBC USD, etc.
Deal Addict
Jan 31, 2007
4968 posts
5084 upvotes
Richmond Hill
EDL67134234 wrote: No one is panicking. But the product offers between HSBC and RBC are miles apart. The chances of RBC delivering anything new beside their current offerings are quite small.
For example, RBC does not even offer no-fx cards like HSBC WE.

RBC's multi product rebate seemed like a mess to me last time I looked at it. Do they even have free chequing account or a free chequing account if you have investments like with HSBC Premier? The only big bank I know that does that is CIBC if you have over 100k with Investor's edge.

You can have multiple international accounts with HSBC. RBC does not have that only has RBC US based cards.

Those 3 things mean more to me. RBC is run of the mill Bank in Canadian landscape that does not deliver anything exceptional.

Putting my tinfoil hat on:

Credit cards will most likely get converted to Avion cards. FX feature will get eliminated.
HSBC premier-like service - will get cut.
International account feature - definitely cut.

I am just wondering when I need to cut ties with HSBC, since I will need to close international accounts as well such as HSBC USD, etc.
I am on the same boat. Highly unlikely RBC will keep HSBC Product. RBC fees model is a big big mess. Doesn't matter how much product you have / asset you hold there, they always want fees here and there.
Fees is fine if they give me good value, but in RBC case, it is not.

At this time, I will just hold and see what will happen, finding bank that can do international banking as easy as HSBC is not easy.
******************************************************
Bright side of RFD: Often find good deal
Dark side of RFD: Tons of stuff that I don't need but still got them because of RFD
******************************************************
Deal Addict
Feb 10, 2018
1756 posts
1171 upvotes
cheapshopper wrote: I am on the same boat. Highly unlikely RBC will keep HSBC Product. RBC fees model is a big big mess. Doesn't matter how much product you have / asset you hold there, they always want fees here and there.
Fees is fine if they give me good value, but in RBC case, it is not.

At this time, I will just hold and see what will happen, finding bank that can do international banking as easy as HSBC is not easy.
I don't think it is a mess. It is by design because they can get away with it. Regardless of what you think of Wealthsimple, EQ Bank, transfer-wise or even Brim, they are bringing much needed competition and cool features that the old guard does not think about 'because that is how it is has always been'.

Frankly, people still think their loyalty to an institution will bear fruit. Institutions don't care about you one way or another, but a savvy RFDer can extract at least some value in their favor. I am old enough to remember when brokerages charged $30 for a trade. Now we have NBDB and Disnat and WealthSimple. However, I still know many people, especially older folders that just hate the inconvenience of moving their accounts somewhere else.

When I recommended EQ Bank to some of my friends, some of them asked me if it is a legit bank because they don't have physical branches lol
Member
May 3, 2016
474 posts
58 upvotes
EDL67134234 wrote: What if you apply for a free card other than NBC WE? I think they have free cards. If you get approved, you will still qualify for account package.

Or if you get approved for unsecured line of credit, maybe they can do a credit split and move some of the credit limit like Scotiabank does?
Free (ie. no annual fee) cards are not qualified for the free banking package under the 250k+ assets under NDDB offer.
Deal Addict
May 13, 2005
4014 posts
4038 upvotes
Montreal
EDL67134234 wrote: Does Disnat offer LOC at prime? I got quite a nice unsecured LOC at NBC at prime but they Nickle and dime you. I paid a few bills from LOC since it acts like a chequing account and got charged 1.25 even having a Privilege plan.

I was thinking if I had to close my NBDB account+ privilege plan, where I would go? NBDB and Disnat are the same to me. Both cost $0 to buy index funds. Both have crappy margin rates - IBKR is superior in that sense.

Already have Desjardins VIP but even without NBC plan, NBC WE would still cost $0 after $150 annual rebate. I don't have enough assets for Disnat to qualify for signature series to reduce credit card fee for VIP further, which is 500,000 I believe.

Chequing accounts - those come by the dozens. Great free alternatives with EQ, Simplii, Tangerine.

Law services seem like an OK addon- they mostly try to get you fog the phone as quick as they can.

So in short, it I decide to cut LOC and leave NBC privilege plan, I could still just keep NBDB accounts and NBC WE without really paying any fees.
If we have professionals banking package then
  • Desjardins LOC = prime rate
  • NBC LOC = prime rate + 0.25%
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/please- ... #p37089867

If we have 250K at NBC then we have advantageous rates on financing solutions for Personal Flex Line (at prime?)
https://www.nbc.ca/personal/savings-inv ... 7cb93a076d

I agreed both NBC and Desjardins seem copy each other banking package / brokerage.
I live in Montreal that long but never consider Desjardins until now lol... I see more Desjardins branch around my area compared to any other banks.
Newbie
May 11, 2018
35 posts
15 upvotes
There were a couple of mentions of National Bank's "Private Banking 1859" upthread. I enquired a couple of years ago and was told the following:

1. Entry point is $3 million in investable assets.
2. Fee is $125 a month and not typically waived. Gets you a fee-free credit card, estate planning, etc.
3. I mentioned that I'm a DIY investor, but was told that 1859 investment offerings are "managed and customized solution."

I passed on that.

I haven't a clue what HSBC offerings RBC will keep and which they'll bin, but I plan to just wait it out and hope for the best. Annoying a large, mobile, wealthy customer base that you just purchased doesn't seem like a good business decision, so I kind of think things will work out, but what do I know?

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