Real Estate

Illegal Suite to Legal Suite?

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  • Oct 15th, 2021 9:18 am
Deal Addict
Dec 16, 2012
3747 posts
909 upvotes

Illegal Suite to Legal Suite?

Hi

I am looking to buy a property that will allow me to have an airbnb, or foreign students or maybe a renter in basement of my house.

I am looking at many listings and I notice most are "illegal" and I am wondering how hard on average is it to convert it to "legal" and what should I be looking for.

If I buy a place with a illegal suite I really do want to have it legal so I don't have to worry about someone reporting me and such.
18 replies
Sr. Member
Dec 3, 2019
696 posts
680 upvotes
Ontario
Here are some ballpark figures for basement:

Kitchen: 15k
Bathroom: 15k
Large window (fire escape) 10k
Separate entrance: 10k
Separate furnace: 10k
Separate electrical meter/panel: 10k
Separate water: $3k
Fire proof drywall: 10k
Flooring: 10k
+permits, garbage, and many others.

So around 100k total by the book with all permits.

Also depends if you want it "legal" for city approval which mostly cares about fire codes, or fully legal up to all codes.
You can probably get the cost down to $50k by hiring guys from kijiji for cash and doing the minimal (no separate water, furnace or electrical) so city approves.
Deal Addict
Dec 16, 2012
3747 posts
909 upvotes
buysellbuy wrote: Here are some ballpark figures for basement:

Kitchen: 15k
Bathroom: 15k
Large window (fire escape) 10k
Separate entrance: 10k
Separate furnace: 10k
Separate electrical meter/panel: 10k
Separate water: $3k
Fire proof drywall: 10k
Flooring: 10k
+permits, garbage, and many others.

So around 100k total by the book with all permits.

Also depends if you want it "legal" for city approval which mostly cares about fire codes, or fully legal up to all codes.
You can probably get the cost down to $50k by hiring guys from kijiji for cash and doing the minimal (no separate water, furnace or electrical) so city approves.
I would just do whatever makes the city happy that is my aim. So this is for starting from scratch and I guess hiring people to do everything? How long would it take to also get it all finished (6 months?)

How about if most of this stuff is in place? The only problem is it is illegal and I want to convert it to legal?

My concern is when buying a place that I end up buying an illegal suited place and I try to go to the city and after they inspect it they basically just tell me I have to start over...I am not sure if there are professionals you could hire to evaluate the suite before buying to see if it can be brought up to code or if a home inspector would be this person.

Also is it recommended to have separate water and furnaces? All the places I lived in those were shared.
Deal Addict
Jan 13, 2014
2907 posts
2135 upvotes
Calgary
buysellbuy wrote: Here are some ballpark figures for basement:

Kitchen: 15k
Bathroom: 15k
Large window (fire escape) 10k
Separate entrance: 10k
Separate furnace: 10k
Separate electrical meter/panel: 10k
Separate water: $3k
Fire proof drywall: 10k
Flooring: 10k
+permits, garbage, and many others.

So around 100k total by the book with all permits.

Also depends if you want it "legal" for city approval which mostly cares about fire codes, or fully legal up to all codes.
You can probably get the cost down to $50k by hiring guys from kijiji for cash and doing the minimal (no separate water, furnace or electrical) so city approves.
where are you getting this prices from? every city is different. we just did a legal suite from ground up with proper permits, separate finance, full kitchen etc for $35k. this was a cost by a contractor.
Deal Addict
Oct 13, 2014
2896 posts
2234 upvotes
Just Moved To Somewh…
xiaobao wrote: Hi

I am looking to buy a property that will allow me to have an airbnb, or foreign students or maybe a renter in basement of my house.

I am looking at many listings and I notice most are "illegal" and I am wondering how hard on average is it to convert it to "legal" and what should I be looking for.

If I buy a place with a illegal suite I really do want to have it legal so I don't have to worry about someone reporting me and such.
What you should be looking for and make sure it is included in any "Offer To Purchase" is a request to inspect building permits that have been approved and/or closed detailing the work to be done. This includes any permit by the E.S.A.
#1 - “Don’t irritate old people. The older they get, the less “Life in prison” is a deterrent."
#2 - Are you a Sexual Intellect? /S - What you post in this thread may determine that.
Sr. Member
Dec 3, 2019
696 posts
680 upvotes
Ontario
masarwar wrote: where are you getting this prices from? every city is different. we just did a legal suite from ground up with proper permits, separate finance, full kitchen etc for $35k. this was a cost by a contractor.
Looking at it another way new construction in Ontario now is $200+ a sq foot. Assuming a 500 sq foot basements it's $100k.

I'm assuming that $35k was just a quote?
Did not include redoing window openings, redoing electrical so a separate panel can be installed in the basement. Engineer drawing for window and door cutouts?

Of course asking how much to redo a basement is, is like asking how much a car costs.
Deal Addict
Dec 16, 2012
3747 posts
909 upvotes
masarwar wrote: Which city?
Calgary.
masarwar wrote:
where are you getting this prices from? every city is different. we just did a legal suite from ground up with proper permits, separate finance, full kitchen etc for $35k. this was a cost by a contractor.
I am hearing different things, my relator said one of her clients did it for 65K from I guess ground up (but I am not sure how much was done by professionals vs themselves).
rcmpvet wrote:
What you should be looking for and make sure it is included in any "Offer To Purchase" is a request to inspect building permits that have been approved and/or closed detailing the work to be done. This includes any permit by the E.S.A.
hmm, I am going to have to ask my relator about that and do more research alot of that just went over my head. Also even if I get these documents I would need someone to review them as I probalby wo't know what I am looking at.
buysellbuy wrote:
Looking at it another way new construction in Ontario now is $200+ a sq foot. Assuming a 500 sq foot basements it's $100k.

I'm assuming that $35k was just a quote?
Did not include redoing window openings, redoing electrical so a separate panel can be installed in the basement. Engineer drawing for window and door cutouts?

Of course asking how much to redo a basement is, is like asking how much a car costs.
Yeah I know it is pretty general but I am looking for a general ballpack. I need to know if what I am planning would be feasible in my budget. Say it costs 100K to do and I have a budget for a house for 700K well then really I need to buy a place no more than 600K.

This will give me a starting point to see what houses are at 600K level and then I can go from there.
Sr. Member
Mar 11, 2002
911 posts
316 upvotes
So where I live in Coquitlam BC the city has guidelines to convert illegal to legal suites for properties over a certain age (at more cost efficient options) vs new build legal suite standards.

Some items such as “fire breaks” can be met by using a second sheet of drywall over the common wall, there were other criteria as well, with the goal of bringing the suites up to a “minimum” level without breaking the bank.
Deal Addict
Jan 13, 2014
2907 posts
2135 upvotes
Calgary
op, if youre buying an older home where the illegal suite was built before 2018 you can apply for a permit (free!) to convert it to legal at minimum cost (new window which is $1700/window, fire alarms, sprinkler system). i am in the process of doing two of my own. In calgary as well.
Deal Addict
Jan 13, 2014
2907 posts
2135 upvotes
Calgary
buysellbuy wrote: Looking at it another way new construction in Ontario now is $200+ a sq foot. Assuming a 500 sq foot basements it's $100k.

I'm assuming that $35k was just a quote?
Did not include redoing window openings, redoing electrical so a separate panel can be installed in the basement. Engineer drawing for window and door cutouts?

Of course asking how much to redo a basement is, is like asking how much a car costs.
Brand new 800 sqft basement. windows were installed to code by the builder, new wiring, new electrical, new furnance, new flooring, new kitchen etc. it is doable. the highest quote we had was 50k. the 35k work is done, didnt include appliances.
Deal Addict
Jan 13, 2014
2907 posts
2135 upvotes
Calgary
FYI, the amnesty scheme deadline (Calgary's program to convert old illegal suites to legal build before 2018) ends dec 31. something to think about.
Jr. Member
May 15, 2012
156 posts
72 upvotes
Alberta
I just went through this in Calgary. If you are buying a place with a suite already in place...legality aside, you could get a city inspector to come out and tell you what else needs to get done to get it up to code. Note, once they visit, it becomes "known" so your options are to legalize it or proceed at your own risk.
I wanted to get it legalized while under the amnesty program and thankfully I didn't have to spend a ton to get it up to code. I got it done as a option if I wanted to resell down the road.
Your realtor should be able to tell you about zoning and locations. Find a reputable developer to get it done. The City folks are quite helpful since they really want suites to be legalized as well.
Deal Addict
Dec 16, 2012
3747 posts
909 upvotes
masarwar wrote: op, if youre buying an older home where the illegal suite was built before 2018 you can apply for a permit (free!) to convert it to legal at minimum cost (new window which is $1700/window, fire alarms, sprinkler system). i am in the process of doing two of my own. In calgary as well.
masarwar wrote: FYI, the amnesty scheme deadline (Calgary's program to convert old illegal suites to legal build before 2018) ends dec 31. something to think about.
Yeah, I looked briefly into the permits and stuff and read about the amnesty thing, but sadly it will be very very hard for me to get in before dec 31st Disappointed Face
gst1983 wrote: I just went through this in Calgary. If you are buying a place with a suite already in place...legality aside, you could get a city inspector to come out and tell you what else needs to get done to get it up to code. Note, once they visit, it becomes "known" so your options are to legalize it or proceed at your own risk.
I wanted to get it legalized while under the amnesty program and thankfully I didn't have to spend a ton to get it up to code. I got it done as a option if I wanted to resell down the road.
Your realtor should be able to tell you about zoning and locations. Find a reputable developer to get it done. The City folks are quite helpful since they really want suites to be legalized as well.
I would have to talk to my relator about the city inspector thing (also does it cost money). I would think the owners would not be happy if I bring one in and they tell me it can't be converted and I back out of the deal and now they are on the City watchlist.


I am debating now if it is better to try to find a finished/unfinished basement and start from scratch and hopefully the difference between a illegal suite and unfinished/finished basement is enough so I can take that money and use it make a suite.

@masarwar - maybe I will Pm you, but I am wondering since my goal is to really do Airbnb, I am wondering if having a house too far from the heart of calgary will result in a big drop of out people booking my airbnb.

I was also considering getting foreign student (homestay) but I guess they would want to be close to schools.

I at this time I am really not considering traditionally monthly rental tenants.
Deal Addict
Jan 13, 2014
2907 posts
2135 upvotes
Calgary
xiaobao wrote: Yeah, I looked briefly into the permits and stuff and read about the amnesty thing, but sadly it will be very very hard for me to get in before dec 31st Disappointed Face



I would have to talk to my relator about the city inspector thing (also does it cost money). I would think the owners would not be happy if I bring one in and they tell me it can't be converted and I back out of the deal and now they are on the City watchlist.


I am debating now if it is better to try to find a finished/unfinished basement and start from scratch and hopefully the difference between a illegal suite and unfinished/finished basement is enough so I can take that money and use it make a suite.

@masarwar - maybe I will Pm you, but I am wondering since my goal is to really do Airbnb, I am wondering if having a house too far from the heart of calgary will result in a big drop of out people booking my airbnb.

I was also considering getting foreign student (homestay) but I guess they would want to be close to schools.

I at this time I am really not considering traditionally monthly rental tenants.
Where are you looking at buying? we do airbnb as well in NE.
Deal Addict
Dec 16, 2012
3747 posts
909 upvotes
masarwar wrote: Where are you looking at buying? we do airbnb as well in NE.
NW, SE, SW

Pretty much not NE, everyone tells me it is not good areas to live (maybe for straight investment it is good).
Deal Addict
Jan 13, 2014
2907 posts
2135 upvotes
Calgary
xiaobao wrote: NW, SE, SW

Pretty much not NE, everyone tells me it is not good areas to live (maybe for straight investment it is good).
that really depends. maybe PM me when youre in calgary, i will take you on a NE tour lol.
Jr. Member
May 15, 2012
156 posts
72 upvotes
Alberta
xiaobao wrote: Yeah, I looked briefly into the permits and stuff and read about the amnesty thing, but sadly it will be very very hard for me to get in before dec 31st Disappointed Face



I would have to talk to my relator about the city inspector thing (also does it cost money). I would think the owners would not be happy if I bring one in and they tell me it can't be converted and I back out of the deal and now they are on the City watchlist.


I am debating now if it is better to try to find a finished/unfinished basement and start from scratch and hopefully the difference between a illegal suite and unfinished/finished basement is enough so I can take that money and use it make a suite.

@masarwar - maybe I will Pm you, but I am wondering since my goal is to really do Airbnb, I am wondering if having a house too far from the heart of calgary will result in a big drop of out people booking my airbnb.

I was also considering getting foreign student (homestay) but I guess they would want to be close to schools.

I at this time I am really not considering traditionally monthly rental tenants.
I bought in the upper NW. I would consider NE. Anything close to Deerfoot or Stony would be nice. You want people to be able to get to you easily.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Sep 4, 2005
4118 posts
2270 upvotes
Toronto
buysellbuy wrote: Here are some ballpark figures for basement:

Kitchen: 15k
Bathroom: 15k
Large window (fire escape) 10k
Separate entrance: 10k
Separate furnace: 10k
Separate electrical meter/panel: 10k
Separate water: $3k
Fire proof drywall: 10k
Flooring: 10k
+permits, garbage, and many others.

So around 100k total by the book with all permits.

Also depends if you want it "legal" for city approval which mostly cares about fire codes, or fully legal up to all codes.
You can probably get the cost down to $50k by hiring guys from kijiji for cash and doing the minimal (no separate water, furnace or electrical) so city approves.
A lot of your pricing is excessive.
If it's Toronto, they care mostly about fire code and egress. In fact Toronto will allow any single family dwelling to put in a second unit (and help you in the process), to get more units available.
If it's a renovation, you may be able to get away with not having to do hvac; but would need electrical and structural permits.

Separate water/electrical and hvac aren't required. Electrical is nice for long term rentals; but the single furnace/ac on the house meter; but if OP is doing airbnb it's a complete waste of money.

For a 1000 sqft basement. Put in a 10k kitchen and 5-10k bath. Flooring do vinyl for $2+/sqft $2000. Doesn't need a $10k floor.

masarwar wrote: where are you getting this prices from? every city is different. we just did a legal suite from ground up with proper permits, separate finance, full kitchen etc for $35k. this was a cost by a contractor.
This seems way more reasonable for legalizing a basement reno.

buysellbuy wrote: Looking at it another way new construction in Ontario now is $200+ a sq foot. Assuming a 500 sq foot basements it's $100k.

I'm assuming that $35k was just a quote?
Did not include redoing window openings, redoing electrical so a separate panel can be installed in the basement. Engineer drawing for window and door cutouts?

Of course asking how much to redo a basement is, is like asking how much a car costs.
I think it's a lot more than $200/sqft to build now. It used to be that 3+ years ago. With covid and finding labourers it's a lot higher. One of my neighbours tore down his inherited bungalow (25x110 lot with mutual drive) to build a huge 3 story sfh and he made the mistake of trying to align all the trades himself. He's got the foundation poured and is waiting on framing. It's been 2 months with no progress now. I guarantee all in he's going to pay something insane. He mentioned bricking the home is going to run him $60k in bricks alone (no labour). I bet if you went with a contractor who handles everything front to back you'd pay roughly the same, but it would help with timelines a lot.

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