I'm looking for some furnace advice

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Feb 14th, 2018 11:04 am

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Feb 13th, 2018 8:52 pm

poptart77 [OP]: Member; Nov 1, 2006; 258 posts; 96 upvotes

Feb 13th, 2018 8:52 pm

I'm looking for some furnace advice

Can someone help me determine if it's worth replacing my furnace? I have a 14 year old Carrier 93 2 stage furnace that is still going strong but I just completed the Home Energy Conservation Program pre-audit and plan on replacing my water heater with a new tankless water heater along with a skylight. My current rebate will likely be $500 for the tankless water heater and $80 for my skylight. If I replace the furnace, it will increase the rebate by $1000 (furnace) + $250 (ECM motor) + $250 (bonus for doing 3 upgrades with Home Energy Conservation Program). So I'm basically saving $1500 on the furnace. Additionally, the quote I received includes a 5% discount on both the furnace and water heater if I get both done at the same time. One of the quotes I'm looking at is:

Bosch T9800 SE 199: $4000 (after taxes and rebates)
Bosch T9800 SE 199 + York TM9V: $7500 (after taxes and rebates)

Furnace without rebates is being listed at $5500 (after taxes)

Would you consider replacing the furnace given its age to take advantage of the rebates or would you just keep the furnace until it dies and then replace it with whatever rebates are available at that time (or potentially no rebates at all)?

Thanks for your feedback! Let me know if I should include more details.

7 replies

Feb 13th, 2018 9:53 pm

ssj4_ootaku1: Member; May 12, 2003; 371 posts; 238 upvotes; GTA

Feb 13th, 2018 9:53 pm

If it aint broke, don't fix it!

+1

Feb 13th, 2018 10:31 pm

shabby: Deal Addict; Jul 2, 2001; 4556 posts; 1926 upvotes; GTA

Feb 13th, 2018 10:31 pm

poptart77 wrote: ↑
Furnace without rebates is being listed at $5500 (after taxes)

Is it gold plated? I paid under 3k for a payne(carrier) 2 stage 100k btu furnace, keep looking for better quotes. And ssj4 is actually right, if its still working don't bother.

+2

Feb 13th, 2018 11:23 pm

poptart77 [OP]: Member; Nov 1, 2006; 258 posts; 96 upvotes

Feb 13th, 2018 11:23 pm

ssj4_ootaku1 wrote: ↑ If it aint broke, don't fix it!

I usually agree with that sentiment. I was trying to figure out the typical lifespan of a furnace since most of the installers are telling me they don't see many furnaces past 20 years old. They tell me the average is 15-20 and mine was 14 years old so I thought it might be worth replacing it if it was likely to break down within the next few years and since I could get a $1500 rebate, I wasn't sure if that rebate would 'buy out' the lost years of good use thrown away.

Feb 14th, 2018 8:49 am

Dealmaker1945: Deal Addict; Oct 23, 2017; 1905 posts; 1414 upvotes; GTA West

Feb 14th, 2018 8:49 am

poptart77 wrote: ↑ I usually agree with that sentiment. I was trying to figure out the typical lifespan of a furnace since most of the installers are telling me they don't see many furnaces past 20 years old. They tell me the average is 15-20 and mine was 14 years old so I thought it might be worth replacing it if it was likely to break down within the next few years and since I could get a $1500 rebate, I wasn't sure if that rebate would 'buy out' the lost years of good use thrown away.

I'm going through the same thought process with a 15 year old furnace. My concern is the possibility of a failure that will force me to replace the furnace in the dead of winter without (a) having time to shop around, or (b) my preferred furnace not being available on short notice, or (c) paying overtime rates on a weekend/holiday. Not to mention having a very cold house for a few days. Or having a major repair.

Also, I would be able to get a modulating furnace that can run closer to the heat loss rate of the house, rather than my present furnace that blasts air and dust through the house at high speeds for short peiods. There could be savings from better efficiency, but I am not expecting anything radical based on current gas rates.

AT the end of '16 I got some quotes and identified the contractor and rebates I could use in case of failure, just to be ready. Looking at the Lennox SLP98-070 with a new iComfort thermostat. The cost net of govt and mfr rebates was $4785 pre-tax. I will update the quote later in the year.

Just curious what led you to consider Bosch? I haven't heard of them.

Feb 14th, 2018 10:35 am

poptart77 [OP]: Member; Nov 1, 2006; 258 posts; 96 upvotes

Feb 14th, 2018 10:35 am

Dealmaker1945 wrote: ↑ I'm going through the same thought process with a 15 year old furnace. My concern is the possibility of a failure that will force me to replace the furnace in the dead of winter without (a) having time to shop around, or (b) my preferred furnace not being available on short notice, or (c) paying overtime rates on a weekend/holiday. Not to mention having a very cold house for a few days. Or having a major repair.

Also, I would be able to get a modulating furnace that can run closer to the heat loss rate of the house, rather than my present furnace that blasts air and dust through the house at high speeds for short peiods. There could be savings from better efficiency, but I am not expecting anything radical based on current gas rates.

AT the end of '16 I got some quotes and identified the contractor and rebates I could use in case of failure, just to be ready. Looking at the Lennox SLP98-070 with a new iComfort thermostat. The cost net of govt and mfr rebates was $4785 pre-tax. I will update the quote later in the year.

Just curious what led you to consider Bosch? I haven't heard of them.

Well I think you hit it on the nail about having due diligence done ahead of time. Rather than have to figure out who you want to service or replace your furnace in an emergency situation, you have that all decided ahead of time. But having run rough calculations a few times, I seem to come up ahead if my furnace dies within 2 years and behind if it dies 3 years or longer so based on that, I will probably gamble on it lasting another 3 years and wait until it gives me issues before moving forward with a replacement. With any luck, there will be new rebates available at that time and with all this green movement going on, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case.

As for the tankless, Bosch is the same company that makes our dishwasher (we love it) and they are rated as one of the most reliable brands for home appliances (according to Consumer Reports). I figure they are also likely to be pretty reliable in their other product lines and that happens to include tankless water heaters. They also won an innovation award at CES2017 for the Bosch 9000 series tankless water heaters and are rated at .99 efficiency. Lastly, they can be hooked up from the top instead of the bottom which reduces installation costs as you don't have to run a pipe along the sides of the unit all the way underneath like many other brands. If it had been a no name brand, I would likely have been a bit more hesitant but all these factors lead me to believe it is a good product. In the end, the installation is still the most important part though and one of the companies I contacted are very reputable for their installations. So given the choice of installing the best tankless water heater with the worst installers or the worst tankless with the best installers, I will 100 / 100 take the installers.

It just happens that these installers have selected a good product to install.

+1

Feb 14th, 2018 10:47 am

tebore: Deal Guru; Feb 9, 2006; 12281 posts; 6842 upvotes; Brampton

Feb 14th, 2018 10:47 am

That's one expensive furnace.

Your biggest energy waste is the PSC motor in your 2 Stage. Going from 93% to 95% isn't going to net you much in NG savings.

Does your Carrier have any kind of warranty left on it? Some have lifetime on the heat exchanger but you gotta pay labour. You gotta work out the risk ROI on this.

You might want to also look at replacing your AC if it's also 14 years old and isn't energy star rated. Compressor technology has come a long way.

Feb 14th, 2018 11:04 am

poptart77 [OP]: Member; Nov 1, 2006; 258 posts; 96 upvotes

Feb 14th, 2018 11:04 am

tebore wrote: ↑ That's one expensive furnace.

Your biggest energy waste is the PSC motor in your 2 Stage. Going from 93% to 95% isn't going to net you much in NG savings.

Does your Carrier have any kind of warranty left on it? Some have lifetime on the heat exchanger but you gotta pay labour. You gotta work out the risk ROI on this.

You might want to also look at replacing your AC if it's also 14 years old and isn't energy star rated. Compressor technology has come a long way.

I'll definitely check about the warranty. I vaguely remember switching the warranty over to us a few years back but I'm not sure about the details of what it covers. It's definitely worth checking into this now. As for the AC, it was replaced about 4 years ag just before we bought the house so we figure it should be good for another 10 years. Thanks for the suggestions! I'm calling for warranty info now.

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