Income of middle class and upper middle class

It would honestly depend on where they live. Someone in Vancouver or Toronto will have a much different income level to be middle class than someone in Halifax would. Most people in big cities like Toronto and Vancouver say "Wow I could live like a king in Halifax" (or whatever city), but do not realize the income level goes down for people in those regions compared to the big cities.

^income could also swing the other way, used to be and still somewhat true for alberta, higher wages with comparable living expenses to gta/gva

i'd be interested in seeing what middle class 'officially' is. remember the poverty line for a couple is like $22k and something like 10% of the population are 'poor'. and i remember reading something like half of canadians are living on less than $25k after tax income. that's 60% of the population right there... so in that case middle class could be $40-$50k or something like that, and there's probably less than 10% of canadians who make more than $50k. or at least that's my uneducated gut feeling on the subject.

TrevorK wrote: ↑It would honestly depend on where they live. Someone in Vancouver or Toronto will have a much different income level to be middle class than someone in Halifax would. Most people in big cities like Toronto and Vancouver say "Wow I could live like a king in Halifax" (or whatever city), but do not realize the income level goes down for people in those regions compared to the big cities.

good point. maybe people can post their opinion based on their city?

i'd say 50k for Montreal.

Toronto, I would say 65/90.

Your income levels seem accurate to me if you believe income is the sole idea behind social/economic classes.

I do want to add though, I believe social/economic "class" is much more complicated than income alone.

It's related to things such as family size, wealth (in the form of assets available other than income), geography, and most interestingly I believe your mindset is a very relevant factor.

I've met many people who make an upper-middle class income but still act middle class (ie poor to little investment knowledge, rely solely on one income based on their time, and/or physical abilities) And I've seen MANY middle and middle-upper class income families act poor (ie riddled with unnecessary debt... This is so common it's rediculous).

I don't know a whole lot about the subject of classes but I would guess there are many well written essays on the net if you search.

I make $120k and my partner makes $30k and I would consider us middle class.

zibzer wrote: ↑Your income levels seem accurate to me if you believe income is the sole idea behind social/economic classes.

I do want to add though, I believe social/economic "class" is much more complicated than income alone.

It's related to things such as family size, wealth (in the form of assets available other than income), geography, and most interestingly I believe your mindset is a very relevant factor.

I've met many people who make an upper-middle class income but still act middle class (ie poor to little investment knowledge, rely solely on one income based on their time, and/or physical abilities) And I've seen MANY middle and middle-upper class income families act poor (ie riddled with unnecessary debt... This is so common it's rediculous).

I don't know a whole lot about the subject of classes but I would guess there are many well written essays on the net if you search.

income is good enough, you may be able to get better picture by considering additional factors, but the process of determining that itself is difficult, in computation algorithms, we seek for the favorable solution rather than the best solution.

TrevorK wrote: ↑It would honestly depend on where they live. Someone in Vancouver or Toronto will have a much different income level to be middle class than someone in Halifax would. Most people in big cities like Toronto and Vancouver say "Wow I could live like a king in Halifax" (or whatever city), but do not realize the income level goes down for people in those regions compared to the big cities.

Actually, most smaller cities have higher incomes than big cities. The higher incomes that you do find in big cities usually only go to people with exceptional skills.

More expensive homes isn't that big a deal. Just means you're putting more money into your home. Most of that money isn't completely lost. And with HELOC, that money isn't even all that illiquid.

Most of the people I commonly associate with (friends, close family, and co-workers) make between 150 and 500k/year as a household. I'd consider us to be upper middle class; upper class at the higher end of that range.

When talking about median income and such, statisticians often look at "quintiles." The 3rd quintile on a scale would represent the values in the 40th-60th percentile, or the middle 20% of the population. The definition of middle class people use usually seems to extend to the quintile above (upper middle class - 60th-80th percentile) and below (lower middle class - 20th-40th percentile).

And that's just people making the income argument. Others who want to frame a picture that the middle class is "dying" like to use a trend of real wages not rising, inequality coefficients, and measure hypothetical standards of living and how many people can afford them.

There's no clear cut metric, and whatever definition people tell you is usually based in whatever supports their pet argument.

Considered by whom is the question. I'm not wealthy and I'm not poor. That's all I need to know. I know of a lot of people that make 50% more than me and they can't afford a happy meal. The problem is, they will buy the happy meal anyway on their credit card. They know they make more than their friends and believe they can spend accordingly. Remortgaging and refinancing to make ends meet has put them behind. I'm sure the banks and creditors send them gifts for forking over major amounts of interest monthly.

Looks like they will owe until they die. If the prices of houses drops, they won't be able to HELOC anymore so they will finally have to man up and pay off their credit cards and mortgage.

I think the median household income across Canada is $73,000 or so, but as pointed above where you live makes a big deal. While larger cities have the highest expenses, remote communities have it hard too (you need to eat, and food is shipped from even further away, in less bulk).

Your expenses make a big deal too. I'm not married and earn ~$40,000 per year (with high deductions due to a pension plan), but feel like I'm middle class. I have no kids, live in a tiny apartment and use public transit, so my expenses are low. I can either save or spend that extra money. A married couple might make three times as much money as me put together, but have higher tax brackets, a couple of kids with associated expenses, a mortgage (people usually get the most expensive mortgage they can afford, and if their hours go down or interest rates go up, they fall behind), a car or two with associated expenses (loan interest, gas, insurance, parking, maintenance...), support an elderly parent in a nursing home, and pay interest on their credit cards every month because they can't quite make ends meet.

In Toronto, if I had to I'd define middle class as household income from 120k to 350k

thetipster wrote: ↑In Toronto, if I had to I'd define middle class as household income from 120k to 350k

Given a median household income of ~$85,000 in Toronto, the figure you're quoting isn't middle class. Not unless the median household in Toronto is poor.

The latest official stats show median household income in Toronto is 71,200 so let's say 72k. That means the middle class is 36k per person.
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableau ... 7a-eng.htm

So if your family makes 100k, that is probably upper middle class and 150k+ is probably top 20%.

thetipster wrote: ↑In Toronto, if I had to I'd define middle class as household income from 120k to 350k

i would argue the upper end should be closer to 400-500K. It's hard to live in toronto on 350K a year.

flafson wrote: ↑The latest official stats show median household income in Toronto is 71,200 so let's say 72k. That means the middle class is 36k per person.
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableau ... 7a-eng.htm

So if your family makes 100k, that is probably upper middle class and 150k+ is probably top 20%.

i don't mean to be rude but 150K for a household is not that wealthy considering how expensive howsing is!