Investment/Banking Careers in Toronto

Actually as an IA you will be managing portfolios in the portfolio manager / discretionary role, and be pitching client ideas and advising on their choices in the non-discretionary role

It’s part sales, part relationship management and if you really don’t want to manage portfolios, you can follow the firm’s guided portfolios

kennhk wrote: ↑ Actually as an IA you will be managing portfolios in the portfolio manager / discretionary role, and be pitching client ideas and advising on their choices in the non-discretionary role

It’s part sales, part relationship management and if you really don’t want to manage portfolios, you can follow the firm’s guided portfolios

That sounds like something I would love to do.

Anyway you can provide a compensation breakdown for what an IA could make?

GreekFreak wrote: ↑ Hello RFD,

I'm new here and thought I'd ask around for some career advice.

Basically, I work for RBC as a Banking Advisor and have been interested in going into the Wealth Management side of the business, and eventually become an Investment Advisor where I'll have my own client base. I know, I know, it is strictly sales and I wont be doing any sort of analysis or real portfolio management, but that is fine with me as I consider myself to be extroverted with the right personality for a career in sales.

So, I was wondering if people in the same, or similar industry, could help lay out a typical career path that would set me up for success for what I want to do.

What are typical salaries in the Wealth Management industry? How much can IA's expect to make after 3-5 years, assuming they last and don't wash up.

If there are any other careers that are similar, I'd love to know about them and what they do/how much they make. Apparently bank Mortgage Specialists make a KILLING.

Anyway, I'm curious to see what you guys have to say, and any potential advice that is valuable to me, going forward.

Thanks Everyone!

Greek Freak

Whatever you make as an IA, it's unlikely to compare to your NBA compensation

haha

Wealth management can be a tough area to break into and rise up but the ones with large client books make a surprising amount of money. Like you'd expect, networking is key, as you will likely have to find someone to take you under their wing with the long term potential of buying into their book. I think there are some training programs through the big banks for this as well so that might be something to look into.

Investment advising is definitely a dying industry with margins being heavily compressed via more people moving into DIY passively managed ETFs and robo-advisors

Don't quote me on it, but I think big 5 IAs make around $70-100k on average and can "potentially" make up to $1M. Whereas big 5 mortgage specialists are on average $50k.

Brewmaster7 wrote: ↑ Wealth management can be a tough area to break into and rise up but the ones with large client books make a surprising amount of money. Like you'd expect, networking is key, as you will likely have to find someone to take you under their wing with the long term potential of buying into their book. I think there are some training programs through the big banks for this as well so that might be something to look into.

Yeah, I keep hearing that the best way to make it as an Advisor, without a strong connection of people with money, is to work under a more Senior IA with the hopes of being able to buy into their book.

Could you provide any ranges of compensation for Wealth Management?

What are some other lucrative areas of Finance that some people overlook?

kenchau66 wrote: ↑ Investment advising is definitely a dying industry with margins being heavily compressed via more people moving into DIY passively managed ETFs and robo-advisors

Don't quote me on it, but I think big 5 IAs make around $70-100k on average and can "potentially" make up to $1M. Whereas big 5 mortgage specialists are on average $50k.

I definitely knew this was happening at the retail branch level. But Is it also happening in the high net-worth space where you clients would be investing no less than $1M? At that level of wealth there's a lot more then just portfolio management that advisors would need to help their clients with. Thats why I don't see high net worth IA's going anywhere anytime soon.

GreekFreak wrote: ↑ Hello RFD,

I'm new here and thought I'd ask around for some career advice.

Basically, I work for RBC as a Banking Advisor and have been interested in going into the Wealth Management side of the business, and eventually become an Investment Advisor where I'll have my own client base. I know, I know, it is strictly sales and I wont be doing any sort of analysis or real portfolio management, but that is fine with me as I consider myself to be extroverted with the right personality for a career in sales.

So, I was wondering if people in the same, or similar industry, could help lay out a typical career path that would set me up for success for what I want to do.

What are typical salaries in the Wealth Management industry? How much can IA's expect to make after 3-5 years, assuming they last and don't wash up.

If there are any other careers that are similar, I'd love to know about them and what they do/how much they make. Apparently bank Mortgage Specialists make a KILLING.

Anyway, I'm curious to see what you guys have to say, and any potential advice that is valuable to me, going forward.

Thanks Everyone!

Greek Freak

I don't know what the RBC roles are, but Banking Advisor, I'm assuming that's like a 'low level' branch employee, just above Teller, but bellow Financial Advisor within the branch... So I'm assuming here that you likely open bank accounts, visa cards, and talk about the basic financial services.

If you want to work your way up to an IA, then your course of action would be to get into the Investment Sales within RBC retail first.

Again, I don't know the intimate inner workings of RBC branches, but if I am not mistaken there are 2 "high level" branch positions that work with investments:
1 - Financial Planner: which works with banking advisors and the higher level financial advisors within the branch, to find high networth clients and sell mutual funds/provide financial plans.

2- IRP: I cant remember what this stands for, i think its like investment relationship planner, or somthing like that.. Anyway, this roles duty is to go out and FIND sales and bring them to an anchor branch.. An IRP might haev 3-5 branches in their segment which they go after untouched clients that the FA and FP haven't reached yet.

The primary difference between these 2 roles is that the FP sits in his branch and more or less gets business handed to them... they need to upsell products and make plans.
The IRP is purely a HUNTER role. You only get paid for bringing in new MONEY to the bank... Managed money is obviously the jackpot and the payout is in the 1% - 1.5% range, with bonuses/performance bonuses for hitting targets/etc.

EVERY SINGLE BANK out there has similar positions.

The point is pivoting from one of these positions to an IA role will be your best best - once you're in the bank.... But it really depends how strong of a sales guy you are. IA's are really just sales guys.

IA's are making from $70- $150k, I'm sure there are more but that's the band.
IRPs are making anywhere from $80k to $300k. Really depends how hard core and good you are in the sales.
FPs are salary, I believe they are in the $80k starting range with performance bonus.
FAs in the branch mostly start in the $70's+.. Depending on the bank this ranges from $70k to $90k base salary. Also depends on the duties/expectations/sales goals and credentials.

In all cases, a CFP or PFP is going to provide you some value to move on to the next position.
Obviously CSC helps, though not required in a lot of these roles - you can do with IFIC. Most banks will pay for this regardless.
IA role, CIM might be useful on top of the CFP..

kenchau66 wrote: ↑ Investment advising is definitely a dying industry with margins being heavily compressed via more people moving into DIY passively managed ETFs and robo-advisors

Don't quote me on it, but I think big 5 IAs make around $70-100k on average and can "potentially" make up to $1M. Whereas big 5 mortgage specialists are on average $50k.

Actually, this post basically sums up the naivety that is RFD in a nutshell.

Financial Planning and Wealth Management are key areas of expansion in the banking industry. Those "ETF" and "DIY" investors are not the target clients because most of them don't actually meet the minimum threshold to even meet with a FA in a branch.
Most retail branch FA's (not the barebone banking advisors) are targeting clients with $50k investable assets or more. Sure, they will help you invest your $20k if you walk in, but, you are not their market. The reality is most people (WITH MONEY) do not DIY it - contrary to RFD opinion. Problem is, people - at least on RFD - don't really know what's going on in the real world - other than what they read on RFD and Reddit, to formulate their opinions. And you kind of operate in an echo chamber, when everyone here for the most part is looking for "hot deals" and ways to save money. And I know this sounds blunt, because it is, but the ETF investors who are DIY are investing like $5k -$10k portfolios, on average.
I know, this is obviously generalizing, but, there are a lot of people out there that are using these services, and the industry is growing, not shrinking.

Anyway, point here is that at the $300,000+ range, most of the clients are not diy'ers. And really, any smaller portfolio is generally a waste of time. I don't even think most IA's will touch you if you're sub $500k nowadays. Unless they are starting a new book.

Mortgage Specialists/Mortgage Advisors are a different ball game all together.
The whole purpose of this role was designed to keep the mortgage brokering in-house and pay them less, VS. getting mortgage broker business - and buying it.. A mortgage broker that brings a deal to a bank (few banks take mortgage broker deals anymore) had to pay the broker between .90% and 1.5%, with additional top up volume bonuses, etc.
So banks decided to cut out the middle man, pay MA's and MS's, basically half that... but the trade off is you get LEADS and you work with a large bank... The pay out for MA's and MS's range in the .25-.75% range, with additional top ups/etc... Most will pay a starting salary while you get up a running/etc.
I'd say the average salary is likely a bit higher than $50k for this position because they do have 'sales goals' as well. Like if they aren't hitting targets, they are basically cut quickly. I believe in most cases the banks are targeting MA's to pull in about $65k of business minimum. So I think the average - for those MA's that in business for over a year, is likely closer to the $75k mark.

The key success to an MA role is partnering with a bunch of branches to get deals handed to you and vice versa. Once again this is a sales role, just like the IRP role mentioned in my previous post.

cfpuser wrote: ↑ The reality is most people (WITH MONEY) do not DIY it - contrary to RFD opinion. Problem is, people - at least on RFD - don't really know what's going on in the real world - other than what they read on RFD and Reddit, to formulate their opinions. And you kind of operate in an echo chamber, when everyone here for the most part is looking for "hot deals" and ways to save money. And I know this sounds blunt, because it is, but the ETF investors who are DIY are investing like $5k -$10k portfolios, on average.

The median net worth of households in Toronto is over 300k. About a third of that is in liquid assets according to statcan. I wouldn't be surprised if forums for careers/finance like this one attracts individuals in better financial situations than the average. I think you are really underestimating what the average etf/diy investors are like.

Likewise, it's arguable if low 7 figure millionaires are actually not doing it themselves. Look at point 7 on this survey for example.

I wouldn't argue if your asset value requirements are much higher, but it really feels weird to hear that most people need financial planners above a few hundred thousand. That feels too low.

You're right, the industry is expanding because of the aging population, and replacement of traditional pension plans with individual investment accounts according to bls. It's also probably growing in canada due to population growth. But on the other hand robo investors and low fee index funds are expected to continue to eat into profits as it has been for the past two decades.

cnfjti3 wrote: ↑ The median net worth of households in Toronto is over 300k. About a third of that is in liquid assets according to statcan. I wouldn't be surprised if forums for careers/finance like this one attracts individuals in better financial situations than the average. I think you are really underestimating what the average etf/diy investors are like.

Likewise, it's arguable if low 7 figure millionaires are actually not doing it themselves. Look at point 7 on this survey for example.

I wouldn't argue if your asset value requirements are much higher, but it really feels weird to hear that most people need financial planners above a few hundred thousand. That feels too low.

You're right, the industry is expanding because of the aging population, and replacement of traditional pension plans with individual investment accounts according to bls. It's also probably growing in canada due to population growth. But on the other hand robo investors and low fee index funds are expected to continue to eat into profits as it has been for the past two decades.

you're over estimating how many people are DIY'ers.
Based on RFD, no human being out there buys mutual funds, or visits a bank. Everyone uses Tangerine and PC.

Anyway, reality is in the money. And as much as U and other RFD folks wish it, managed money is here to stay and it's growing to.
I actually don't really care either way -house always wins... Look, all the major banks launched ETFs to suck up that business too.

cfpuser wrote: ↑ you're over estimating how many people are DIY'ers.

Yeah I guess I'm just surprised to hear having a financial planner is that common. The majority of the people I know in the range you're describing are financially savvy enough to get there in the first place themselves, and don't really see the value of hiring one.

cnfjti3 wrote: ↑ Yeah I guess I'm just surprised to hear having a financial planner is that common. The majority of the people I know in the range you're describing are financially savvy enough to get there in the first place themselves, and don't really see the value of hiring one.

Well I don't know what range you're talking about. I'm not talking "net worth", I'm talking cash on hand. It's 2 separate things.
People with $500,000 investable assets (CASH) are very different than people with a $300,000 net worth - when 90% of that networth is equity in their home.

Anyway, I wasn't just talking Planners though. Investment Advisor, or Financial Advisor (branches/banks).

Lots of people don't want to deal with it. They go with a managed solution - AKA a mutual fund, or, for the more wealthy - an IA.

cfpuser wrote: ↑ Well I don't know what range you're talking about. I'm not talking "net worth", I'm talking cash on hand. It's 2 separate things.
People with $500,000 investable assets (CASH) are very different than people with a $300,000 net worth - when 90% of that networth is equity in their home.

Yeah I meant cash. I don't think it's that different. Lot's of people just follow the standard of investing in low fee index funds, and mixing in other stuff depending on what they know/like. Maybe it's different for folks with 10-100 mil+.

cnfjti3 wrote: ↑ Yeah I meant cash. I don't think it's that different. Lot's of people just follow the standard of investing in low fee index funds, and mixing in other stuff depending on what they know/like. Maybe it's different for folks with 10-100 mil+.

you're using your 3 family friends as anecdotes to the whole industry?
and no, wasn't talking about $10mil to $100mil.
like i said, portfolios in the $500k+ range, tend to be with IA's. Not that many DIYers.
Portfolios in the $100k+ - $300k tend to be at branches - or managed product solutions.


But anyway, that's cool that you know the industry so well.

Back on topic:
OP, there is lots of business to be had, and the industry is not dying at all - contrary to RFD thinking.

cfpuser wrote: ↑ you're using your 3 family friends as anecdotes to the whole industry?

No...there's a few people here that's in pretty lucrative industries. I know it's hard for you to believe, but there's a lot of people with that type of money out there.

cnfjti3 wrote: ↑ No...there's a few people here that's in pretty lucrative industries. I know it's hard for you to believe, but there's a lot of people with that type of money out there.

What's hard to believe?

That majority are not DIYers?

cfpuser wrote: ↑ What's hard to believe?

That majority are not DIYers?

Yeah exactly. The majority seems to be doing it themselves. That unofficial survey I linked kind of reinforces this:

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-mil ... ws-2018-12

What's the point of going to IAs if you're not 10 to 100 million+?