Home & Garden

Keeprite Furnace and A/C

  • Last Updated:
  • Jun 10th, 2021 10:25 pm
[OP]
Newbie
Aug 17, 2018
11 posts
1 upvote

Keeprite Furnace and A/C

Hello

Please share your experience and prices with Keeprite 2 Stage Variable Speed Furnace model G96VTN
and Keeprite 2 Stage Variable Speed A/C model N4A7.

Thank you
16 replies
Deal Addict
Jun 16, 2009
2784 posts
1148 upvotes
Woodbridge
Models look good. I am not a big fan of two stage AC's as they are much more complex machines with more parts to fail besides complex and expensive repairs.
For some reason only Keeprite engineers though of putting the things together from a service standpoint. Easier to access and replace most parts.
SriniGHomCan wrote: Hello

Please share your experience and prices with Keeprite 2 Stage Variable Speed Furnace model G96VTN
and Keeprite 2 Stage Variable Speed A/C model N4A7.

Thank you
HVAC Professional. Committed to customer, not brand.
Furnace & Central AC Group Buy 2021
[OP]
Newbie
Aug 17, 2018
11 posts
1 upvote
Thank you.
Are you an HVAC company or an independent professional?
Would it be possible for you to provide a quote?
We are planning to replace the 16-year-old Trane furnace and A/C in a 2 story detached house with 2200 sq ft.
I am currently assessing between 2-stage 60K (or) 80K BTU furnace.
2-Stage 2, 2.5 or 3 Tons A/C.
Please provide your suggestion as well.
Sr. Member
Oct 19, 2020
564 posts
355 upvotes
GTA
Personally to be honest, I would keep the 16 year old furnace going unless there's a very compelling reason like a cracked heat exchanger to replace it.
Same for a/c - replace if compressor is bad or it's leaking refrigerant.
You can keep a furnace when replacing a/c and vice versa.

*

2-speed cooling can be lousy for a 2-story house.
Low cooling uses a lower fan speed and you may not get proper airflow to the second floor on low.
Also, only available in 1 ton increments, and if you oversize to 3 out of fear that 2 is not enough, you eliminate the benefit of 2-speed.

2-stage heat works fine in 2-story homes due to warm air rising.

Assuming you're in the GTA:
I would get a basic single stage 13 seer 2 or 2.5 ton depending on the house's exposure, ceiling height and insulation levels.
(you can buy higher-seer if you want, but likely won't see a good investment return)

I would stay away from 80k furnace for that size house unless some or all of the exterior walls are not insulated.
If 60k is too small, look at a lennox/armstrong that makes 66 000 btu (sold as "70").
Rheem also offers units between 60 and 80k.

Not a fan of the G96VTN at all, as the blower is constant torque despite being marketed as "variable speed".
Variable speed is expensive to repair and is supposed to automatically compensate for duct pressure to deliver proper airflow. You get the disadvantages without the main advantage.
This model does not maintain full airflow at higher duct pressures in heating mode and there are no major heating speed adjustments at the same time, a bad combination.
The 60k version is the worst for heating airflow, this is based on manufacturer's performance charts.
Models of the same class from other makes (2-stage with "constant torque motor") allow for major manual heating speed adjustments if airflow is too low at factory setting.

G96CTN is a far better option if you use keeprite despite not necessarily using all the extra features it has.

*I helped someone over PM some months ago with the carrier labelled version of the G96VTN, having problems with the furnace running hot in high heat mode with nothing to be done, short of ripping out and re-doing the air ducts!


Keeprite = carrier clone, so anyone who says to avoid carrier furnaces but that keeprite is okay is either lying or ignorant.
Deal Addict
Jun 16, 2009
2784 posts
1148 upvotes
Woodbridge
Feel free to reach out directly at 416-992-2333 if you are in GTA to discuss different options.
SriniGHomCan wrote: Thank you.
Are you an HVAC company or an independent professional?
Would it be possible for you to provide a quote?
We are planning to replace the 16-year-old Trane furnace and A/C in a 2 story detached house with 2200 sq ft.
I am currently assessing between 2-stage 60K (or) 80K BTU furnace.
2-Stage 2, 2.5 or 3 Tons A/C.
Please provide your suggestion as well.
HVAC Professional. Committed to customer, not brand.
Furnace & Central AC Group Buy 2021
Deal Addict
Feb 4, 2010
4694 posts
3529 upvotes
The house I bought had a Keeprite A/C when I moved in 5 years - I haven't had any problems with it...it was installed in 2012/2013. Don't know what model it is offhand.
Deal Addict
Jun 16, 2009
2784 posts
1148 upvotes
Woodbridge
I do not doubt. There are plenty of makes and models which work flawlessly and does their primary function well ( heat or cool ) . Like many others, I do not care how my processor works in laptop as long as its fast and give me the results I want.
hierophant wrote: The house I bought had a Keeprite A/C when I moved in 5 years - I haven't had any problems with it...it was installed in 2012/2013. Don't know what model it is offhand.
HVAC Professional. Committed to customer, not brand.
Furnace & Central AC Group Buy 2021
[OP]
Newbie
Aug 17, 2018
11 posts
1 upvote
Thanks for the inputs.
- Reason for change: Evopratior coil frozen iced some years ago due to some rust and dust buildup clogged the mini drain. There was water leaking through the furnace so the bottom part of the furnace is rusted inside, on the floor as well. Before I learned the clogging reason, some time back Reliance came and checked asked us to change everything. But some other technicians suggested cleaning up the dust clogging periodically in summer to avoid the issue. It works ok but rusted all over.
- R22 was filled last year, it was almost empty. There may be leaking to figure out.
- A/C Parts were changed by service plan last year
- Furnace parts were changed many times, service plan covered.

So far no issue from Furnace last year, and A/C runs fine this year.

We may sell the house later this year or next year. Having a rusted Furnace may be an issue for buyers.

Regarding 2 stage A/C: The current A/C is 8 SEER, 2 tons. Specifically, in the summer months, hard to get coll to the 2nd floor, but it is ok when the A/C is running. For instance, 28-degree temp when A/C runs is comfortable. 25 Degree at home if A/C not running then it suffocated. it came 23 degrees, then if A/C is not running then again suffocated.
One thing I realize is that when the Furnace fan is running it gives some comfort by rotating air from the basement, 1st floor, and 2nd floor, it helps somewhat.
So, I am thinking if the 2 stage A/C runs at a lower speed with lower speed from the furnace then it solves the humidity and suffocation.

This is where I see what they explain in 2 stages A/C as runs longer at a lower speed. This is the main feature I want to have.

Many HVAC salespersons don't encourage this option, and try to show the less price of SEER 13 or 14 and suggest 2 stage variable Furnace is more than enough. I feel like they are just trying to complete their sale by showing a saving in price and sell the product sooner.

So, at this point, I am not particular about brands like Lennox/Trane/Carrier/or any higher end. Even I was thinking of Canadian brands like Napoleon and Continental. But they don't have 2 stages A/C.

No brands are important for me now, I just what to experiment with the 2-stage Furnace and A/C with whichever brand comes with a good price deal. I read about Keeprite and Tempstar, seems both of their variable-speed models are good. So, I am planning to go with this.
I don't feel that single-stage is good enough for varying summer temperatures. That's where I want to see how the HVAC innovation of 2-stage variable speed helps.
Sr. Member
Oct 19, 2020
564 posts
355 upvotes
GTA
SriniGHomCan wrote: Thanks for the inputs.
- Reason for change: Evopratior coil frozen iced some years ago due to some rust and dust buildup clogged the mini drain. There was water leaking through the furnace so the bottom part of the furnace is rusted inside, on the floor as well. Before I learned the clogging reason, some time back Reliance came and checked asked us to change everything. But some other technicians suggested cleaning up the dust clogging periodically in summer to avoid the issue. It works ok but rusted all over.
- R22 was filled last year, it was almost empty. There may be leaking to figure out.
- A/C Parts were changed by service plan last year
- Furnace parts were changed many times, service plan covered.

So far no issue from Furnace last year, and A/C runs fine this year.

We may sell the house later this year or next year. Having a rusted Furnace may be an issue for buyers.

Regarding 2 stage A/C: The current A/C is 8 SEER, 2 tons. Specifically, in the summer months, hard to get coll to the 2nd floor, but it is ok when the A/C is running. For instance, 28-degree temp when A/C runs is comfortable. 25 Degree at home if A/C not running then it suffocated. it came 23 degrees, then if A/C is not running then again suffocated.
One thing I realize is that when the Furnace fan is running it gives some comfort by rotating air from the basement, 1st floor, and 2nd floor, it helps somewhat.
So, I am thinking if the 2 stage A/C runs at a lower speed with lower speed from the furnace then it solves the humidity and suffocation.

This is where I see what they explain in 2 stages A/C as runs longer at a lower speed. This is the main feature I want to have.

Many HVAC salespersons don't encourage this option, and try to show the less price of SEER 13 or 14 and suggest 2 stage variable Furnace is more than enough. I feel like they are just trying to complete their sale by showing a saving in price and sell the product sooner.

So, at this point, I am not particular about brands like Lennox/Trane/Carrier/or any higher end. Even I was thinking of Canadian brands like Napoleon and Continental. But they don't have 2 stages A/C.

No brands are important for me now, I just what to experiment with the 2-stage Furnace and A/C with whichever brand comes with a good price deal. I read about Keeprite and Tempstar, seems both of their variable-speed models are good. So, I am planning to go with this.
I don't feel that single-stage is good enough for varying summer temperatures. That's where I want to see how the HVAC innovation of 2-stage variable speed helps.
Brand is not that important, what is - the actual models and sizes, what's a good fit for your home.

1. 2-stage cooling will make the second floor worse, stick with single stage.
2. Second floor not cooling well has other causes. Based on your description, you could benefit from running the blower continuously at a low speed as well as balancing.
3. You need to get the G96CTN to get the real benefit of the variable speed blower if you buy keeprite
4. The minimum efficiency 16 years ago for cooling was 10, not 8.
5. The a/c brand absolutely does not have to match the furnace brand.

It is not a good idea to chase after a "good deal"; if the price is significantly below average, contractor is cutting corners on install and or using inferior equipment.


The differences between low budget and mainstream a/cs is not significant when it comes to comfort, only build quality and noise level.
2-stage/variable speed furnaces different matter...
A good one will set you back $4k+.
The cheapened ones (like the G96VTN, goodman gmvc96 and lennox ml296v and all clones) should be avoided due to bad blower programming or no support for 2-stage thermostats. Don't get full benefit but do get increased repair costs.
The 2-stage thermostat is necessary to get the full benefit, having high heat only come on when it is necessary - without it, high is brought on after a time delay, so you don't get very extended heating cycles.
The entire point of the variable speed blower over the multi-speed is to precisely maintain optimal airflow as conditions change (ie, automatically compensating for vents being adjusted, etc) in every mode of operation and the programming of the cheaper models does not allow for that functionality and can be even worse than more basic furnaces.
Last edited by insertname2020 on Jun 10th, 2021 9:28 am, edited 4 times in total.
[OP]
Newbie
Aug 17, 2018
11 posts
1 upvote
newlyborn, may I request you to review and comment on the message from "insertname2020". This is good interaction here and shares knowledge. I will check the current model A/C for the SEER.
Could you please comment on the 2 stages variable speed Furnace and the 2 stage A/C from Keeprite and Tempstar.
I am not a big fan of brand-name models, even in cars. I just want a reasonably reliable product, which has the most access to parts availability. I noticed in many forums that many had difficulty getting Lennox parts. But, the Keeprite parts are easy to get it seems. As long as it runs like a Mitsubishi or Hyundai then I am fine.
Sr. Member
Jun 1, 2010
700 posts
198 upvotes
insertname2020 wrote: Brand is not that important, what is - the actual models and sizes, what's a good fit for your home.

1. 2-stage cooling will make the second floor worse, stick with single stage.
2. Second floor not cooling well is has other causes. Based on your description, you could benefit from running the blower continuously at a low speed as well as balancing.
3. You need to get the G96CTN to get the real benefit of the variable speed blower if you buy keeprite
4. The minimum efficiency 16 years ago for cooling was 10, not 8.
5. The a/c brand absolutely does not have to match the furnace brand.

It is not a good idea to chase after a "good deal"; if the price is significantly below average, contractor is cutting corners on install and or using inferior equipment.


The differences between low budget and mainstream a/cs not significant when it comes to comfort, only build quality and noise level.
2-stage/variable speed furnaces different matter...
A good one will set you back $4k+.
The cheapened ones (like the G96VTN, goodman gmvc96 and lennox ml196v and all clones) should be avoided due bad blower programming or no support for 2-stage thermostats. Don't get full benefit but do get increased repair costs.
The 2-stage thermostat is necessary to get the full benefit, having high heat only come on when it is necessary - without it, high is brought on after a time delay, so you don't get very extended heating cycles.
The entire point of the variable speed blower over the multi-speed is to precisely maintain optimal airflow as conditions change (ie, automatically compensating for vents being adjusted, etc) in every mode of operation and the programming of the cheaper models do not allow for that functionality and can be even worse than more basic furnaces.
Insertname2020 is a honest person and really knows his stuff, he always gives great advice. Although I wish I had more time to contribute to this forum, I certainly agree with all of his recommendations. He has no motivation here to up sell and generate business, but just give honest advise. For the record please do not install anything other then a 2 stage furnace. We use our furnace 6-7 months of the year, a 2 stage furnace will keep you more comfortable and provided its installed correctly should be very quiet. A single stage will not will run/stop causing un even heating in your home. We have not installed a single stage furnace in over 10 years. In terms of air conditioning please do NOT install more then a 13 SEER, since our cooling season is so short you will not recoup the savings in energy as its minimal. The Seer rating has nothing to do with quality or performance but efficiency only.
See our 2021 RFD Trane AC Group Buy
group-buy-gta-ottawa-2021-central-ac-gr ... e-2449494/
Sr. Member
Oct 19, 2020
564 posts
355 upvotes
GTA
SriniGHomCan wrote: I am not a big fan of brand-name models, even in cars. I just want a reasonably reliable product, which has the most access to parts availability. I noticed in many forums that many had difficulty getting Lennox parts. But, the Keeprite parts are easy to get it seems. As long as it runs like a Mitsubishi or Hyundai then I am fine.
The minor brands are actually made by and are clones the equipment from the large manufacturers.
There are only five major makes.
Not shopping by brand is a great strategy, just need to research the contractor and unit very carefully to avoid a bad install and for variable speed furnaces, a crippled unit.
When the unit is over the counter, risk of bad install increases so be careful.
[OP]
Newbie
Aug 17, 2018
11 posts
1 upvote
Thank you insertname2020.
I will take into account all of the advice from insertname2020, fourseasoncomfort, and newlyborn.
I read some of the post in forums where you gave good inputs.
Thanks for your support.
Deal Addict
Jun 16, 2009
2784 posts
1148 upvotes
Woodbridge
Srini everyone on board has different opinions and experiences. That doesn't necessarily make someone right or wrong. I am a person who looks value for money whereas others may be a die-hard fans of features that may not serve any purpose. When the furnaces were equipped with PSC motors, some common parts were universal like ignitor OR motor.
With new ECM technology, you cannot use universal parts regardless of the make and model. Most common parts are available with suppliers for any brands be it Lennox or Carrier.
There are situations when some specific parts are not available even for Goodman or keeprite.
To me complex machine means more chance of breakdown. Period. For the same reason, I always advise my customers to stay away from modulating furnaces and or communicating thermostats.
SriniGHomCan wrote: newlyborn, may I request you to review and comment on the message from "insertname2020". This is good interaction here and shares knowledge. I will check the current model A/C for the SEER.
Could you please comment on the 2 stages variable speed Furnace and the 2 stage A/C from Keeprite and Tempstar.
I am not a big fan of brand-name models, even in cars. I just want a reasonably reliable product, which has the most access to parts availability. I noticed in many forums that many had difficulty getting Lennox parts. But, the Keeprite parts are easy to get it seems. As long as it runs like a Mitsubishi or Hyundai then I am fine.
HVAC Professional. Committed to customer, not brand.
Furnace & Central AC Group Buy 2021
Deal Addict
User avatar
Sep 27, 2006
3854 posts
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Not so easy there Ma…
newlyborn wrote: Srini everyone on board has different opinions and experiences. That doesn't necessarily make someone right or wrong. I am a person who looks value for money whereas others may be a die-hard fans of features that may not serve any purpose. When the furnaces were equipped with PSC motors, some common parts were universal like ignitor OR motor.
With new ECM technology, you cannot use universal parts regardless of the make and model. Most common parts are available with suppliers for any brands be it Lennox or Carrier.
There are situations when some specific parts are not available even for Goodman or keeprite.
To me complex machine means more chance of breakdown. Period. For the same reason, I always advise my customers to stay away from modulating furnaces and or communicating thermostats.

HVAC Professional. Committed to customer, not brand.
Furnace & Central AC Group Buy 2021
RFD member realist123 has a Lennox modulating furnace and the proprietary communicating thermostat failed. He posted the following about his experience. The price did not include installation.

"Anywhere from $800-1200 and everyone wanted to install the S30 (thermostat)

Apparently the model I had was known to a few installers for failure. I emailed Lennox since it was past the 5 year warranty and they were no help.

I find it very frustrating that I have to shell out this kind of cash 7 years into a new HVAC system. I don't want to have to pay this again in 7 years. Lesson learned. Ecobee, Nest, and the other 'smart' thermostats cost a fraction (yes, they aren't communicating, but is it really worth 2-3k more over the expected life of the furnace?"
Deal Addict
Jun 16, 2009
2784 posts
1148 upvotes
Woodbridge
I could not agree more. One has to really weigh the benefits over the cost. It's good to have fancy or cool features but at what cost? When I compare two models of anything, I ask myself- is it worth spending 25-30 % extra for ...( fill in the blanks ).
fergy wrote: RFD member realist123 has a Lennox modulating furnace and the proprietary communicating thermostat failed. He posted the following about his experience. The price did not include installation.

"Anywhere from $800-1200 and everyone wanted to install the S30 (thermostat)

Apparently the model I had was known to a few installers for failure. I emailed Lennox since it was past the 5 year warranty and they were no help.

I find it very frustrating that I have to shell out this kind of cash 7 years into a new HVAC system. I don't want to have to pay this again in 7 years. Lesson learned. Ecobee, Nest, and the other 'smart' thermostats cost a fraction (yes, they aren't communicating, but is it really worth 2-3k more over the expected life of the furnace?"
HVAC Professional. Committed to customer, not brand.
Furnace & Central AC Group Buy 2021
Sr. Member
Oct 19, 2020
564 posts
355 upvotes
GTA
I would much rather have a older discontinued 2-stage psc (inefficient old style motor, for the layman) motor furnace than the g96vtn, because at least the psc motor's heating speed can be increased significantly if needed to compensate for air ducts.
It's just a lousy unit, not a question pushing for "the latest and the greatest".

Of today's furnaces, all of them have high efficiency ecm motors to meet us doe requirements available in two main types, constant torque/multi-speed and constant airflow.

Constant torque is actually not at all a deal killer, provided the heating speeds can be manually changed to get proper airflow.
Some of the furnaces with this motor type can be retrofitted with generic after the 10 year warranty ends, saving a lot of money on repair costs. (york tm9y, rheem, lennox el296E and clones are like this)
To my knowledge, even that is changing and universal constant airflow motors are becoming a thing, but even generic version of constant airflow type will likely be very expensive.

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