Home & Garden

Keeprite Furnace and A/C

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  • Apr 23rd, 2022 6:23 pm
Deal Addict
Jun 1, 2010
1094 posts
323 upvotes
SGHomCan wrote: Thank you insertname2020.
I will take into account all of the advice from insertname2020, fourseasoncomfort, and newlyborn.
I read some of the post in forums where you gave good inputs.
Thanks for your support.
It is also important to make sure the contractor has a physical location and is an authorized dealer for the products they sell. There are some contractors that advertise and sell some of the major brands but are not a authorized dealer but a sales agent for other authorized dealers. This list of authorized dealers can be found on the manufactures website.
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Newbie
Oct 29, 2011
13 posts
6 upvotes
Ontario
insertname2020 wrote: Personally to be honest, I would keep the 16 year old furnace going unless there's a very compelling reason like a cracked heat exchanger to replace it.
Same for a/c - replace if compressor is bad or it's leaking refrigerant.
You can keep a furnace when replacing a/c and vice versa.

*

2-speed cooling can be lousy for a 2-story house.
Low cooling uses a lower fan speed and you may not get proper airflow to the second floor on low.
Also, only available in 1 ton increments, and if you oversize to 3 out of fear that 2 is not enough, you eliminate the benefit of 2-speed.

2-stage heat works fine in 2-story homes due to warm air rising.

Assuming you're in the GTA:
I would get a basic single stage 13 seer 2 or 2.5 ton depending on the house's exposure, ceiling height and insulation levels.
(you can buy higher-seer if you want, but likely won't see a good investment return)

I would stay away from 80k furnace for that size house unless some or all of the exterior walls are not insulated.
If 60k is too small, look at a lennox/armstrong that makes 66 000 btu (sold as "70").
Rheem also offers units between 60 and 80k.

Not a fan of the G96VTN at all, as the blower is constant torque despite being marketed as "variable speed".
Variable speed is expensive to repair and is supposed to automatically compensate for duct pressure to deliver proper airflow. You get the disadvantages without the main advantage.
This model does not maintain full airflow at higher duct pressures in heating mode and there are no major heating speed adjustments at the same time, a bad combination.
The 60k version is the worst for heating airflow, this is based on manufacturer's performance charts.
Models of the same class from other makes (2-stage with "constant torque motor") allow for major manual heating speed adjustments if airflow is too low at factory setting.

G96CTN is a far better option if you use keeprite despite not necessarily using all the extra features it has.

*I helped someone over PM some months ago with the carrier labelled version of the G96VTN, having problems with the furnace running hot in high heat mode with nothing to be done, short of ripping out and re-doing the air ducts!


Keeprite = carrier clone, so anyone who says to avoid carrier furnaces but that keeprite is okay is either lying or ignorant.
Some confusing advice. Don't like the G96vtn but do like the G96ctn. Keep away from modulating/communicating too complicated, but then the ctn is communicating. Is the payne PG96vat any better. Looks like the same unit as the VTN. We're about to get the G96vtn because everyone was saying keep away from these modulating and communicating ones.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Sep 27, 2006
4871 posts
1761 upvotes
Not so easy there Ma…
PunjiPower wrote: What are you thoughts on modular?
A modulating furnace is the top of the line, however the recommended consensus of the contractors on this forum is to install a properly sized 2 stage. An oversized existing furnace is not uncommon. The modulating are more complex and more likely to break down. When they do break down are more complex to troubleshoot and repair costs can be much higher. In order to get the most benefit from a modulating furnace it usually requires a proprietary thermostat. If the thermostat fails it can cost upwards of $1000 or more after installation and taxes to replace. If money is no issue, a modulating furnace can keep the house temperatures more tightly regulated, quiet and comfortable. You can though, more tightly regulate a non modulating furnace by using the advanced features of a smart thermostat like an Ecobee to change the temperature range trigger points. Other people also use the ultra low high efficiency fan speed option built into most new furnaces to even out the temperatures throughout the home by running it 24/7. If you have a single stage furnace now a 2 stage would also be a noticeable improvement in comfort and quieter too.
Deal Addict
Dec 19, 2009
4951 posts
2975 upvotes
fergy wrote: A modulating furnace is the top of the line, however the recommended consensus of the contractors on this forum is to install a properly sized 2 stage. An oversized existing furnace is not uncommon. The modulating are more complex and more likely to break down. When they do break down are more complex to troubleshoot and repair costs can be much higher. In order to get the most benefit from a modulating furnace it usually requires a proprietary thermostat. If the thermostat fails it can cost upwards of $1000 or more after installation and taxes to replace. If money is no issue, a modulating furnace can keep the house temperatures more tightly regulated, quiet and comfortable. You can though, more tightly regulate a non modulating furnace by using the advanced features of a smart thermostat like an Ecobee to change the temperature range trigger points. Other people also use the ultra low high efficiency fan speed option built into most new furnaces to even out the temperatures throughout the home by running it 24/7. If you have a single stage furnace now a 2 stage would also be a noticeable improvement in comfort and quieter too.
And what are your qualifications to give advice on HVAC equipment?
You mention "the consensus of the contractors on this forum" ... is that the two contractors which go at each others throats day in and day out? One of which in my opinion is just a salesman and doesn't know actually anything about HVAC and left his fanboy to do the actual talking for him ... but that dude has left the building?
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Sep 27, 2006
4871 posts
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Not so easy there Ma…
pootza wrote: And what are your qualifications to give advice on HVAC equipment?
You mention "the consensus of the contractors on this forum" ... is that the two contractors which go at each others throats day in and day out? One of which in my opinion is just a salesman and doesn't know actually anything about HVAC and left his fanboy to do the actual talking for him ... but that dude has left the building?
I've followed the forum for years.
Deal Addict
Dec 19, 2009
4951 posts
2975 upvotes
fergy wrote: I've followed the forum for years.
Definitely qualified then ... sorry.
Deal Addict
Jun 16, 2009
3685 posts
2166 upvotes
Woodbridge
I can safely echo the comments. The cost outweighs the benefit of modulating furnace, especially in an average size of house . From my personal experience in the field, I found that modulating furnaces broke more often. Communicating thermostat that is needed in order to reap all benefits from modulating furnace, are way more complicated and cannot be just replaced with a regular thermostat like Ecobee or Nest.
Overall, there is no real benefit of modulating furnace at least IMHO. Can they provide little better comfort in a large homes ? May be !!
fergy wrote: A modulating furnace is the top of the line, however the recommended consensus of the contractors on this forum is to install a properly sized 2 stage. An oversized existing furnace is not uncommon. The modulating are more complex and more likely to break down. When they do break down are more complex to troubleshoot and repair costs can be much higher. In order to get the most benefit from a modulating furnace it usually requires a proprietary thermostat. If the thermostat fails it can cost upwards of $1000 or more after installation and taxes to replace. If money is no issue, a modulating furnace can keep the house temperatures more tightly regulated, quiet and comfortable. You can though, more tightly regulate a non modulating furnace by using the advanced features of a smart thermostat like an Ecobee to change the temperature range trigger points. Other people also use the ultra low high efficiency fan speed option built into most new furnaces to even out the temperatures throughout the home by running it 24/7. If you have a single stage furnace now a 2 stage would also be a noticeable improvement in comfort and quieter too.
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Sep 27, 2006
4871 posts
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Not so easy there Ma…
pootza wrote: Definitely qualified then ... sorry.
If you're asking the knowledge of mechanical and electronic equipment I have. It's more extensive than you think and far, far more than your typical person. I'm the kid that grew up and enjoyed taking everything apart to see how it worked, how it was made, what the components were, the electronics, mechanicals, anything I could learn about it, etc, and also repaired anything and everything. Most any new item wasn't safe from my curiosity. LOL

This winter i extensively researched modulating furnaces when a large local HVAC company was selling off several models of new crated, furnaces for $500 each, they included modulating Keeprite, the topic of this thread. They were all new but old stock of varying ages and could still be registered. Crated AC's were $500 too. My furnace is getting old and so far I've only had it partialy disassembled out of curiosity lol. I do read the dedicated HVAC forums when research takes me there and actually gone through several furnace manuaĺs, and technical documents, PDF and paper, my own furnace repairs and self installed two tanks.

There's more HVAC people on here than you realize. The majority of them don't post very often, some very infrequently, some very, very infrequently , but if you look up their profile and sometimes it's a case of reading between the lines for a nuance or look to see who's upvoting and again look up their profile.

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