Laptop Advice - Refurbished Thinkpad or New Dell/Lenovo?

MrBear2019 wrote: ↑ Hey there! I'm looking for a laptop in the $400-$700 range, for someone who will be doing their Masters in CS. No gaming, no heavy video-editing stuff, mostly looking for a good solid device that works well.

I am currently using a Refurbished Thinkpad (X250) and I was looking into that. I was checking out Bauer systems (not sure if they are meant for individual customers) and was targeting ~T470 which was costing around $600. I was wondering if at this price point it made more sense to buy a new laptop instead, such as the Dell Inspiron that's on discount right now, or ideally a new Thinkpad if it goes on discount. Especially since I'll probably have to buy a new battery for the Refurbished thinkpad.

1. Has anyone used Bauer Systems, how much do they charge for shipping within Souther Ontario? I can't travel to their shop.
2. Any other places to look for refurbished stuff?
3. Is this a bad time to buy used stuff? It seems that prices are inflated rn.

Please see these ongoing discussion threads

[Bauer Systems] Refurb (&new) Laptops/Desktops/Monitors/SSD/Tablets&Phone/with mini buying guide
Posted by @Glancealot

[Dell Refurbished] Dell Refurbished coupon codes and discussion
@karembeu is the verified rep

[Lenovo Canada] ThinkPad & IdeaPad - EPP Discounted


Yes, now is a bad time to buy refurbished laptops

Terrible time to buy refurbs. There are deals to be had when you look at private sellers but huge YMMV, I've seen some very good prices on thinkpads but they do go fast. If you need one now, the inspiron deal is respectable. Back to school is around the corner, may be worth waiting to see what pops up - though with laptops in demand I would not be surprised if retailers milk it.

I would not pay $600 for a T470. The performance of ryzen cpus and nvme ssds is amazing, hard to recommend old tech once you experience it.

what about a gaming PC for work

Dhanushan wrote: ↑ Yes, now is a bad time to buy refurbished laptops

Agreed.

1. New RYZEN CPUs are manufactured using 7nm, making them more efficient, have internal processing improvements, and on-board GPU advances.
2. New Intel CPUs have internal processing improvements, and on-board GPU advances - (not sure of the manufacturing advances, but 11th gen is significantly faster than 10th gen).
3. Apples new M1 CPU is revolutionizing portable computing. RISC-based hardware and OS coupled with extremely low power consumption.

Also, we're not far off from the release of DDR5 ram, which will increase performance and decrease power consumption.

However, Thinkpads and I think DELL Latitude laptops are serviceable. So for used, if speed and battery life are not your concern, and you want longevity, then used could be a better buy.

Speed is not a major concern (aiming for a 5th gen i5 at least, since that's what I'm not using right now). Unfortunately, battery life is. I'm pretty sure the batteris that these refurbs would come with would not last long and I can''t find a reliable source for new batteries for Thinkpads. eBay has "genuine used" batteries which I don't need, what I really want are knockoff, decent quality new batteries. Anyone know where I can get some?

MrBear2019 wrote: ↑ Speed is not a major concern (aiming for a 5th gen i5 at least, since that's what I'm not using right now). Unfortunately, battery life is. I'm pretty sure the batteris that these refurbs would come with would not last long and I can''t find a reliable source for new batteries for Thinkpads. eBay has "genuine used" batteries which I don't need, what I really want are knockoff, decent quality new batteries. Anyone know where I can get some?

I strongly suggest genuine battery, with genuine you know it designed with corrected spec and certified. It is not like after market ink.

Hey there I made a similar thread a week back, I was interested in some of the same laptops you were, but ended up sticking with Thinkpads, I like being able to tinker with my laptop, upgrade and swap things, etc.
recommendation-productivity-development-laptop-2476282/

My results were managing to a snag a really cheap T470 (280 CAD taxed and shipped, configured with an i7 6600U and 8GB RAM) on eBay.

If you're down for used, my tips to hunting for a good deal:

• Look for "Parts Only" or "As-Is" deals, but there's a good chance you may run into duds or dead motherboards. Sometimes if you get lucky its only superficial damage (for me it was a chipped palm rest).
• Do your research and look for any model numbers so you can reference Lenovo for a spec sheet, many eBay or second hand listings will mislabel things (look for a BIOS screen screenshot in their listing)
• Avoid anything with screen damage, won't boot up, water damage, etc., It may be more hassle than it's worth to fix or replace.
• Sort by newest listings, anything that's a good deal get snapped up fast.
• If something only has soldered memory make sure you get enough for your needs. If it has open SODIMM slots (or better more than one), then great

If you want a more guarantee and an easier time, it may be better off if you buy new. A new X1 Nano / X1 Carbon 9th Gen / X13/T14 AMD might be worth the investment, or a X13 16:10 screen, it seems it will likely retain it's value in the future. Getting a good configuration will probably set you back $1100-$1300, but you can probably sell it 4 or 5 years down the line for half your value. The same can't be said for getting a used older laptop now.

Also the *40-era to the *70 has CPUs with the same power as the m-series processors in the *20 and *30 series Thinkpads. They are however more energy efficient. I believing starting with the *80 series they had a major spec up, as well as quad physical cores. If you're looking at $700 you may want to target that over the T470. If I didn't find such a good deal I'd probably want a T480 over T470.

Take for example 2013 X230's i5 3320M vs a 2017 X270's i5 6300U:
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/I ... 02vsm27864

Now look at 2017's i5 6300U against the 2018's i5 8250U:
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/I ... 4vsm338266

I'm in a similar boat to you, OP. Looking for an upgrade and wanting to stick with Lenovo.

The general consensus I've found (after some research and posts here on RFD, much already echoed in this thread): (1) refurbs are not great value now, (2) Ryzen processors are a big step change in performance vs. comparably priced Intel machines, (3) Thinkpads are still a very good choice with regard to build quality and ease of maintenance (though YMMV with some of the "slim" models.

It seems that there are a fair number of "new old stock" Lenovo T495 or T14 (with Ryzen 5 3500U processors) available on Kijiji, FB Marketplace, etc. for around $700-$800. I think this would be a far better deal than a T470 costing $600, even if the Ryzen 5 3500U is not the fastest processor out there (though should still run circles around whatever you're likely to find in a T470).

As always, a big part of the decision will center around your screen size preferences, whether you want or need a touchscreen, memory or SSD requirements (though those can often -- not always -- be upgraded later).

There are also lower-end Lenovo lines like ThinkBook, IdeaPad, and Flex. I am tempted by the Flex but am also wary of points of failure.

Don’t buy refurbs now

Windows 11 is suppose to be released sometime in October, and the requirements are for 8th gen or higher. That may change but from what I have been reading, I understand why Microsoft is going that route.

You won’t find too many refurbs that meet the Windows 11 requirements.

Buy from Lenovo EPP

Gee wrote: ↑ Don’t buy refurbs now

Windows 11 is suppose to be released sometime in October, and the requirements are for 8th gen or higher. That may change but from what I have been reading, I understand why Microsoft is going that route.

You won’t find too many refurbs that meet the Windows 11 requirements.

Buy from Lenovo EPP

Can you elaborate on the reasons why MS is setting such high requirements?

My guess is that security for UEFI bios/tpm 2.0 and spectre/meltdown flaws, plus nvme for video editing/gaming (direct storage API).
The fixes for spectre/meltdown is a big hit to performance ~ 20% on older cpus, but 8th gen cpu and up solved this issue.

It's funny how people want to run win11 without tpm (hacked software fix), compromising their own security/privacy just to use their old computer with win 11.

frugal69 wrote: ↑ The fixes for spectre/meltdown is a big hit to performance ~ 20% on older cpus, but 8th gen cpu and up solved this issue.

This is the main reason and I consider it a valid reason

If it was just a BIOS issue you can always update that. Harder to do with a CPU issue

https://www.healthcareittoday.com/2021/ ... the-issue/

Gee wrote: ↑ Don’t buy refurbs now

Windows 11 is suppose to be released sometime in October, and the requirements are for 8th gen or higher. That may change but from what I have been reading, I understand why Microsoft is going that route.

You won’t find too many refurbs that meet the Windows 11 requirements.

Buy from Lenovo EPP

Windows 11 requirements are basically a sham though, you can run Windows 11 on something as old as the X230 with a little bit of fiddling. The requirements are more of a "don't make a new computer below these specifications"

MrBear2019 wrote: ↑ Windows 11 requirements are basically a sham though, you can run Windows 11 on something as old as the X230 with a little bit of fiddling. The requirements are more of a "don't make a new computer below these specifications"

Totally agree

… but they had to draw the line somewhere.

Gee wrote: ↑ Totally agree

… but they had to draw the line somewhere.

Why did they have to draw the line? They didn't draw it with Windows 10. It can run on whatever.

alpovs wrote: ↑ Why did they have to draw the line? They didn't draw it with Windows 10. It can run on whatever.

Did you read the article I referenced?

Gee wrote: ↑ Did you read the article I referenced?

No.

alpovs wrote: ↑No.

It was a rhetorical question

It’s obvious you didn’t read it

MrBear2019 wrote: ↑ Hey there! I'm looking for a laptop in the $400-$700 range, for someone who will be doing their Masters in CS. No gaming, no heavy video-editing stuff, mostly looking for a good solid device that works well.

I am currently using a Refurbished Thinkpad (X250) and I was looking into that. I was checking out Bauer systems (not sure if they are meant for individual customers) and was targeting ~T470 which was costing around $600. I was wondering if at this price point it made more sense to buy a new laptop instead, such as the Dell Inspiron that's on discount right now, or ideally a new Thinkpad if it goes on discount. Especially since I'll probably have to buy a new battery for the Refurbished thinkpad.

1. Has anyone used Bauer Systems, how much do they charge for shipping within Souther Ontario? I can't travel to their shop.
2. Any other places to look for refurbished stuff?
3. Is this a bad time to buy used stuff? It seems that prices are inflated rn.

I'd say buy a new Dell. At least you know the battery is good. The problem is that you won't know if whatever you buy now will be suitable or not for the purpose. In a year or so that someone will know exactly what they need and may need to buy something else anyway.