Automotive

large motorcycle helmet for "oriental head"?

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  • Sep 11th, 2022 2:24 pm
Sr. Member
Feb 8, 2010
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SonyCanWoes wrote: It's a loaded term from the colonial past comparable to referring to black people as "coloured" or "Negro".
Interesting... During my stay in Malaysia, people of Chinese descendant seem to like the Brits. At least better than the current absurd political environment for Chinese in Malaysia.
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Sep 21, 2010
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SonyCanWoes wrote: It's a loaded term from the colonial past comparable to referring to black people as "coloured" or "Negro".
I can understand refraining from using colors (I personally avoid that terminology and refer to ethnicities instead) but wonder about 'Negro'...I assume it's just an outdated term more than being actually offensive?

I thought that they used 'oriental' as the opposite of 'occidental' (i.e. Western) and refers to the sun setting on one of them, but supposedly 'sunset' refers to the latter so still trying to understand its offensiveness.
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Newbie
Sep 19, 2012
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Richmond Hill
All helmet have to try, even same brand and different model will be different.
Most AGV and Nolan's inner are oval shape no Asian fit;
Shoei or Arai or HJC may fit,
Otherwise, take vacancies if available
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Jul 14, 2013
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make sure the helmet fits snug instead of comfortable. give your head a good shake up/down left/right to see if it's loose. these places allow exchanges for a small fee:

fortnine
gpbikes
Sr. Member
Feb 8, 2010
626 posts
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n0thing wrote: make sure the helmet fits snug instead of comfortable. give your head a good shake up/down left/right to see if it's loose. these places allow exchanges for a small fee:

fortnine
gpbikes
Thanks!
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Mar 7, 2007
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I think "oriental head" is so f*&% stupid and ignorant. I have to remember to never go back to Cycle World Superstore. Anyways...

Arai, the legendary helmet manufacturer from Japan, determined all heads to be oval (very simple and true fact), and they make three fits: round oval, intermediate oval, and long oval.

Image

More info - https://parts.araiamericas.com/the-arai-difference/fit
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I am a bit puzzled by your description. If you have a large head shouldn't the problem be the other way around?

Anyway Asian here as well and a Shark fit me well.

Have you considered a modular helmet if the problem is the chin area? You can open it up to put it on and that may give you more room.
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CensoredByRFD wrote: And I also wouldn't even touch a Shoei helmet if you have a rounder or oddly shaped head. Their sizes run tighter and generally speaking for more oval heads.
I agree with this. My first helmet was a Shoei and it was really tight. Arai fits a lot better for me, but I found the opening too small and I had to squeeze into it.
SonyCanWoes wrote: 2021 and people still refer to Asians as "Oriental".
Asians covers a large area. I prefer the term Oriental. People tell me it is not politically correct but I prefer it and I don’t find it offensive or derogatory. People are just too sensitive.
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Gee wrote: I agree with this. My first helmet was a Shoei and it was really tight. Arai fits a lot better for me, but I found the opening too small and I had to squeeze into it.



Asians covers a large area. I prefer the term Oriental. People tell me it is not politically correct but I prefer it and I don’t find it offensive or derogatory. People are just too sensitive.
Maybe I am too sensitive. Note: I am not from Asia.


I just imagine myself walking into Cycle World, and hear the salesman telling me "Oh, you have a n!gg*r head". Or a "brown head". I would really prefer NOT to deal with a salesman that thinks in those terms.

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Gee wrote: Asians covers a large area. I prefer the term Oriental. People tell me it is not politically correct but I prefer it and I don’t find it offensive or derogatory. People are just too sensitive.
Just because you have no issue being called or labelled a loaded term with racist and oppressive history doesn't mean that the term should continued to be used in 2021 or that people who say there are better alternatives without the baggage and connotations are "too sensitive". Are you consistent though? Is everything too "sensitive" or are some not just because you think so or you are offended by those things?

Nowadays people say Asian, East Asian, South Asian, South East Asian. Obama banned the use of the word Oriental in federal documents in a 2016 bill for a reason (along with Negro).

Are people too sensitive when they don't like being called "Chinaman", "yellow", "chink"?
Are Pakistanis too sensitive when they don't like being called "Paki"?
Are black people too sensitive when they don't like being called "n!gger", "coloured", "negro", "Negroid", "coon"?
Are Japanese people too sensitive when they don't like being called "jap", "nip"?
Are Koreans or Vietnamese people too sensitive when they don't like being called "gook"?
Are Indigenous peoples/Aboriginal people too sensitive when they don't like being called "red man", "redskin", "savage", "indian"?
Are Latin Americans/Hispanics too sensitive when they don't like being called "wetback", "spic", "greaser", "greaseball", "beaner"?
Are Italians too sensitive when they don't like being called "wop", "greaseball", "dago"?
Are Middle Eastern people too sensitive when they don't like being called "sand n!gger", "towelhead", "raghead", "terrorist"?
Are Jewish people too sensitive when they don't like being called "Shylock", "kik.e", the term "jew" to be used for ripping somebody off or being cheap?
Are biracial people too sensitive when they don't like being called "half breed"?
Are Mongolian people too sensitive when they don't like the term "Mongoloid"?

Etc

interestingly enough of all the terms above, only kik.e is blocked by the RFD filter.
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motomondo wrote: I just imagine myself walking into Cycle World, and hear the salesman telling me "Oh, you have a n!gg*r head". Or a "brown head". I would really prefer NOT to deal with a salesman that thinks in those terms.
The N word above doesn't even need to be used for there to be a sh1tstorm if a black person had trouble finding the correct fit of something and they were told it was because of their "Negro head" or "Negro lips". I guess Gee would say people would be too sensitive.
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East Gwillimbury
SonyCanWoes wrote: Just because you have no issue being called or labelled a loaded term with racist and oppressive history doesn't mean that the term should continued to be used in 2021 or that people who say there are better alternatives without the baggage and connotations are "too sensitive". Are you consistent though? Is everything too "sensitive" or are some not just because you think so or you are offended by those things?
I don’t refer to anyone as oriental because I don’t want to offend them. But I have no problem being referred to oriental, chink, yellow, Chinaman etc. They are just words

I don’t call any negro, paki etc for the same reason.

If people hate me for my race, it doesn’t matter what politically correct words they use. It’s not going to change their attitude towards me

It’s getting bad, it’s not politically correct to call a bedroom the “Master bedroom” in real estate listings. It is now referred to as the “Primary bedroom”. Slavery was a terrible thing but I seriously doubt the term Master Bedroom has anything to do with Slavery. That being said, I don’t know of any slaves that exists today that would be offended by using the word Master to describe the main bedroom in a house. Are people just offended for their ancestors?
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Gee wrote: I don’t refer to anyone as oriental because I don’t want to offend them. But I have no problem being referred to oriental, chink, yellow, Chinaman etc. They are just words

I don’t call any negro, paki etc for the same reason.
You don't want to offend them but you have no issue calling/labelling them and others "too sensitive" when they have issue with people using these names/slurs.
Gee wrote: It’s getting bad, it’s not politically correct to call a bedroom the “Master bedroom” in real estate listings. It is now referred to as the “Primary bedroom”. Slavery was a terrible thing but I seriously doubt the term Master Bedroom has anything to do with Slavery. That being said, I don’t know of any slaves that exists today that would be offended by using the word Master to describe the main bedroom in a house. Are people just offended for their ancestors?
Master bedroom is not a term created or used in association with slavery or the oppression of women, so your opinion about it being "too politically correct" is understandable. However, the same does not apply to the slurs I listed in my post. So unless you think it's too politically correct to want those slurs to stop being commonly used to refer to people, not sure why it's a "bad" thing in your eyes to move away from using them.

You say you don't mind being called "Oriental", "chink", "Chinaman", but you're encouraging their use not merely by accepting them being used on you, but by criticizing those who don't like it instead of the people using it. You are propagating it. If more people were like you, all those slurs I listed would still be in use nowadays as much as they used to be used. I guess to you that would be a "good" thing.
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SonyCanWoes wrote: You don't want to offend them but you have no issue calling/labelling them and others "too sensitive" when they have issue with people using these names/slurs.
In a word

Yeah

I don’t have a problem labeling them as too sensitive. Is that a bad thing? When did sensitivity become a bad thing?

You are free to express your opinion. I don’t have to like it. But I respect that it is YOUR Opinion. Not sure why you care or have a problem with my opinion. Maybe you’re too sensitive.

… and I am not encouraging anything. I have never asked anyone to call or refer to me as chink, Chinaman or even Oriental. I am just not offended by it. Just because I don’t give someone a dirty look when they call me oriental doesn’t mean that I am encouraging its use.
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Gee wrote: I don’t have a problem labeling them as too sensitive. Is that a bad thing? When did sensitivity become a bad thing?

You are free to express your opinion. I don’t have to like it. But I respect that it is YOUR Opinion. Not sure why you care or have a problem with my opinion. Maybe you’re too sensitive.
You quoted my post and said "people are too sensitive".

By your logic, not sure why you care or have a problem with my opinion. Also by your logic, maybe you're too sensitive if people criticizing racially charged labels makes you want to criticize them as "too sensitive". Not sure why you feel you can have a problem with my opinion enough to basically say I'm "too sensitive", yet not be fine with me having an opinion about your opinion. Are you really that obtuse to think you can call people too sensitive and not understand why they might respond ("not sure why you care or have a problem")? Your conclusion to the points I made regarding your opinion (allowing people to call you slurs but instead of criticizing them for being insensitive, you criticize those opposed to it as being too sensitive and thereby encouraging and condoning such behaviour) is that I'm too sensitive?

People: "Hey there's no reason to use racial slurs when better terms exist without a history of being used to mock, demean, and ridicule oppressed people"
You: "You're too sensitive people!"
People: "Why are we too sensitive for pointing this out? Why are you not criticizing the people using slurs but instead criticizing people saying better alternatives exist?"
You: "Why did you respond to me? You're too sensitive!"

People: "Hey Gee you chink, go back to your own country"
Me: "Hey you shouldn't call him that"
You: "You're too sensitive"

And nobody said sensitivity is a bad thing. Context matters. But in this context, you're using it as a criticism and a negative thing. Calling somebody "too sensitive" while saying "it's getting bad" while talking about political correctness and bringing up an apples to oranges comparison with master bedrooms is obviously not you using it as a good thing. Not sure what game you're playing here.
Gee wrote: … and I am not encouraging anything. I have never asked anyone to call or refer to me as chink, Chinaman or even Oriental. I am just not offended by it. Just because I don’t give someone a dirty look when they call me oriental doesn’t mean that I am encouraging its use.
You can encourage behaviour by not speaking out about behaviour you know. Like bullying. If a teacher sees bullying and says nothing to the bullies, is that not encouraging it to continue? You're actually doing more than that. You're actually defending the bullying by minimalizing and trivializing it. You're attacking those who speak out about bullying and argue they are the problem instead of the bullies. That is also encouragement because it makes the bullying appear fine and it makes them think their behaviour is fine. It also discourages those who speak out against it.
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Aug 2, 2004
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East Gwillimbury
SonyCanWoes wrote: People: "Hey Gee you chink, go back to your own country"
Me: "Hey you shouldn't call him that"
You: "You're too sensitive"
I don't have a problem with your opinion. It's yours and I respect it.

You really think this is how I would react? What moron criticizes someone that comes to your defense?

You honestly think I would waste time with ignorant people and tell them that they are too sensitive. I could care less. The problem with people that use racial slurs is ignorance. Just because it doesn't bother me doesn't mean it's okay. I am willing to bet that the person at the store that used the term "Oriental Head" doesn't think he is racist or even know he is using a racial slur. It is all about context. Even if he IS RACIST and meant it as a racial slur, nothing I say or do will change his opinion. You can waste an hour arguing why he is wrong and shouldn't use these terms, but do you really think that is a good use of your time? Do you think it will change anything? The only thing that will accomplish, is annoying him.

As far as bullying, we are not talking about kids. If it was kids that was using racial slurs, that is something else totally. As a parent, you need to sit down with your kids and explain why it is wrong.

Adults have opinions and I will not be able to change their views by scolding them. I am not trying to change your opinion. If you think I am playing games with you because I use Master Bedroom as an analogy, then I suggest we stop having a discussion. Obviously, I am annoying you and that is not my intention. My opinion is that people are too sensitive. I don't go around telling everyone I see that they are too sensitive. I don't really care if they are or not. I don't encourage what is perceived as negative behaviour and I don't scold (discourage) them.
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Gee wrote: You really think this is how I would react? What moron criticizes someone that comes to your defense?
I only have your posts to predict how you'd react since I have nothing else to go by. It was a skit to illustrate a point, so not like I'm saying that's exactly how such a scenario would play out.

I would have asked what kind of moron criticizes people as being too sensitive for pointing out that a term like "Oriental" is still being used in 2021 too.
Gee wrote: The problem with people that use racial slurs is ignorance. I am willing to bet that the person at the store that used the term "Oriental Head" doesn't think he is racist or even know he is using a racial slur. It is all about context. Even if he IS RACIST and meant it as a racial slur, nothing I say or do will change his opinion. You can waste an hour arguing why he is wrong and shouldn't use these terms, but do you really think that is a good use of your time? Do you think it will change anything? The only thing that will accomplish, is annoying him.
It depends on if they're using them maliciously or out of ignorance. It's harder to change the views and actions of those who use them maliciously, but often people who didn't know better can change that once they are educated. It depends on how the message is conveyed too. Explaining something and allowing them to see a point of view they might never have considered is different than labelling them "racist" or telling them off. If anybody ever chooses to explain why any of these terms are insensitive, it shouldn't take more than a minute, let alone an hour. Is it good use of your time? I suppose it depends on what kind of person you are. For some, yes taking a few seconds is a waste because it is meaningless to them. For others, it is worth it to possibly make a difference. In the case of an employee at a store using such terms, it doesn't really matter if they get "annoyed" or not, and what can actually be accomplished is that they are told not to use such terms (by management for example) in the context of being at work where they represent their employer and deal with customers that are on the receiving end of such terms. Annoying the person using the terms at work should be less important than annoying customers.

This isn't even about the store scenario though. You were wasting your time criticizing my post for commenting on the store situation. So that apparently is worth you wasting your time, but not when somebody calls you a racial slur. Your intention was not to change my mind, so changing somebody's mind is not necessary for you to express a negative opinion. So it's perplexing that you don't want to waste your time on situations like what occurred at the store, but you criticize others as being sensitive when they choose to use their time to criticize situations like what occurred at the store. Why even bother calling people too sensitive then. Doesn't seem consistent.

At the end of the day, you might not see how history has changed, especially in the last two decades, but people speaking up has removed much of these slurs from popular usage and speech and reserved only as insults. For example fewer people will casually call people "homo" or "fag" or "n!gger". It will be even less common in future generations. Regardless of whether people stop or use them less because they agree with it or whether it's because they don't want to be social pariahs for doing so. So regardless if you think it makes no difference, when people do something to effect such changes, they do happen. These types of changes occur less and more slowly with Asians because there are a lot of Asians such as yourself out there, not speaking up or even undermining others that do, but it will still happen. Remember, it was only 2016 when Chris Rock still felt it was fine to make racist stereotypical Asian jokes when hosting the Oscars.
Gee wrote: As far as bullying, we are not talking about kids. If it was kids that was using racial slurs, that is something else totally. As a parent, you need to sit down with your kids and explain why it is wrong.

Adults have opinions and I will not be able to change their views by scolding them. I am not trying to change your opinion. If you think I am playing games with you because I use Master Bedroom as an analogy, then I suggest we stop having a discussion. Obviously, I am annoying you and that is not my intention. My opinion is that people are too sensitive. I don't go around telling everyone I see that they are too sensitive. I don't really care if they are or not. I don't encourage what is perceived as negative behaviour and I don't scold (discourage) them.
You don't have to be talking about kids to understand my point on how inaction can be a form of enabling and encouraging behaviour. Nobody mentioned "scolding", and speaking up doesn't have to be that. I said I didn't know what game you're playing because you used the term "sensitive" negatively then asked why does being sensitive have to be a bad thing. Same goes with asking me why I care to reply to you and your opinion when you quoted me and said people are too sensitive.
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Feb 23, 2005
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I am Chinese and 6ft tall. I rode for 15 yrs. HJC fit me well, but noisy. switched to shoei, fits well, less noisy, lighter.

unfortunately these days, its hard to try on helmets, I used to go to the store, try a few brands on and keep them on for a good 10 minutes.
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Gee wrote: @SonyCanWoes

There is no point in having this discussion with you.

Try to enjoy your weekend. It helps if you are not so angry
You're right, there really is no point if you have no replies. It's really condescending to tell me to enjoy my weekend as if I wouldn't be, or need you to tell me I should try to enjoy it. Especially the "it helps" nonsense. I don't see how anything in my post indicates I'm angry. But hey, trolls always say this type of thing when they have no response.
Last edited by SonyCanWoes on May 7th, 2021 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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