Shopping Discussion

Is is legal to demand you supply and verify cell phone number! to purchase online?

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  • Jun 4th, 2021 6:22 pm
Deal Guru
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Mar 23, 2008
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Edmonton
Sparkster wrote: I just went to place an order with Canada Computers & Electronics Yesterday.
I had about $800 in computer components in the cart and then went to the checkout.
Checkout looked fine so I clicked 'next'.

Screen went dark and a small white box comes up in the middle: "Please verify your mobile number for checkout"
Options are "OK" or an "X" to close the popup.
Image

After much fiddling I found there is NO way to go through the checkout unless I give them a valid mobile phone number, and let them verify it via SMS.

Here's the problem. I don't have a cell phone. I mean, I DO have one. An old Nokia basic phone that "lives" in the car for emergencies.
It's on a pay as you go plan that costs me 30 cents a minute if I use it so I am not giving out the number for it. It does what I need it for. Nothing more. Nothing less.
I'm not sure if it does texts or not. It only has the standard alpha/numeric 12 button pad. (So "texting" is extremely difficult even if it could do it.)
Call me a Luddite if you want. I'm 70. Really into computers and electronics. But I have no need or want for a cell phone. To me it would be a useless expense with no value in return.
(For what it's worth, 40% of Canadians over 65 - that actively use the internet - don't have smartphones. StatsCan data.)

Is this even legal? It appears to be discriminatory to demand you supply a mobile number they can verify.

I opened a trouble ticket about it and the response from Customer Service essentially said "We must verify who you are so that's why we must have this. 'Thanks for understanding'."
I'm pretty sure I could go into 7-Eleven, buy their cheapest phone, a SIM card, and a $25 card, all paid for with cash, activate the phone, and do exactly what they ask.
How would that verify who I am?

My last order with them was mid-March. So around 45 days ago. Didn't have to supply/verify a mobile number then.

Doesn't placing an order and paying for it by Visa, Interac, or Paypal give them all the information about me that they should ever need?

I might be wrong but the only reason I can think of for them doing this is to get a verified mobile phone number they can spam with texts about the latest deals and special offers.

Opinions?


I did make it clear I don't have a cell phone on that ticket.
This was the reply:

Image

"Privacy" is becoming a thing of the past it seems.
Oh, and OP? Suggestion for you for next time. Use 289-459-1088 next time you want to order from them. See what happens.

C
Jr. Member
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Jan 2, 2011
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CNeufeld wrote: Jeebus... if you don’t like a company’s policies like this, just find another vendor. It’s not discriminatory or illegal. Your charter rights aren’t being violated. They’re just unnecessary and annoying.

C
Not discriminatory?
Lemmie toss some numbers at you.

~18% of Canadians are over 65. (6,840,000)
~ 70% of those use the internet. (4,788,000)
- 40% of those don't have a smartphone. (1,915,200)

I'm pretty sure that having a requirement to purchase online, that is intentionally not available to almost 2 Million Canadians.... might be considered discriminatory.
Particularly when a lot of seniors are staying home because of the pandemic and having everything possible, delivered.

All CC has to do is add a voice delivery option to verify the phone number (It's all automated, just like the SMS), rather than 2 million Canadians going out and buying a mobile phone.

And even if it's not discriminatory, it certainly seems to be a boneheaded move from a marketing standpoint.
Why would any business intentionally put an online ordering requirement in place that could exclude 2 million potential customers?

(The numbers are all from Statistics Canada.)
Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
Deal Expert
Jan 7, 2002
29711 posts
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Waterloo, ON
jaybeeg wrote: I was simply trying to help.
I appreciate that.
If the OP doesn't want to use a telephone or is keeping his number secret because he's in the witness protection plan, that's completely up to him.
Since we're quoting the OP, "Here's the problem. I don't have a cell phone. I mean, I DO have one. An old Nokia basic phone that "lives" in the car for emergencies."

I get that he can receive texts on it. But here's one "perfectly valid reason" for not wanting to use it in this situation: People who keep an old phone in their car for emergencies normally keep it powered off. So even if the OP powers it up just to play CanComp's silly SMS dance, it's unlikely that the phone will be powered on when they subsequently send updates. More importantly if they have questions to ask about the order, e.g. because they need clarification about a specific item or an item is OOS and they want to substitute, the OP won't know that they called. After all the phone is sitting in the car and powered off.

Why is it so hard to understand that not everyone wants to be forced to interact using texts on a cellphone, especially when there are other means of communicating with businesses (e.g. email)?
veni, vidi, Visa
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Sep 16, 2015
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bylo wrote: Why is it so hard to understand that not everyone wants to be forced to interact using texts on a cellphone, especially when there are other means of communicating with businesses (e.g. email)?
I understand. It's unreasonable and ageist.
Deal Addict
Sep 19, 2015
2282 posts
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Kleinburg, ON.
Don't want to use a cellphone like 90% of the population? Your choice. I'm sure CC would not miss your business.

CC offers shipping as well which no one has mentioned which only requires an email account.

There's also other online vendors with storefronts that uses the same policy and methodology for curbside pick up such as the aforementioned Memory Express, Best Buy or vendors with no storefront like NewEgg and Amazon. If you don't want to use a cellphone, do your online ordering through Amazon and/or NewEgg and get it shipped instead. I just order with whoever has it in stock and at the price that's most prefer to me, regardless of having a cellphone or not.

You have choices - the other vendors also offer the same products, simple as that. No one is holding a gun to your head to force you to order from CC. You don't have to do business with one over the other.
Jr. Member
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Jan 2, 2011
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CNeufeld wrote: Oh, and OP? Suggestion for you for next time. Use 289-459-1088 next time you want to order from them. See what happens.

C
I think you may be proving my point. I've done that. THAT is why I submitted a trouble ticket rather than select the "phone" option.

Image

To be honest, this is a problem with most company's customer service.
It got a lot worse since the pandemic started.
It's not unique to Canada Computers.

I know some have pointed out problems with this retailer but generally I've been happy with them.

Although not so much with an order for 4 Logitech laser mice I placed in January.
Four items... Black, Silver, Blue and Red.

2 Days later an email: "The red mouse is not in stock and we don't know when it will be available....."
Next day... the Black one....
Next day... the Blue one....
I logged into the account and cancelled the order.
The system shouldn't let you put things in the cart and check them out if they're out of stock.
Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
Deal Fanatic
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Sep 19, 2002
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Vancouver
It's neither discriminatory and certainly not illegal.

The prohibited grounds for discrimination are listed here: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/act ... ion-3.html

You can toss out numbers, but those don't mean anything under the law. This is no different than Amazon requiring an email address for orders or restaurants requiring shoes for service.

Canada Computers does this given the low margins and high risk for fraud. If you use one of those "free" mobile numbers, CC can see which mobile provider it comes from. Based on that, they can evaluate the risk and put a hold on the order if necessary.

Quite frankly, the demographics of computer component buyers who are unwilling to provide a mobile number nor walk into the store are pretty small.
Deal Fanatic
Jul 4, 2004
9473 posts
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A little while ago you used to be able to use apps like TextNow to receive sms however, some businesses have refused to send verification codes there anymore.

You might want to search Google for free Canadain Temp sms numbers and use that. There's a 50/50 chance it might work.
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Deal Guru
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Mar 23, 2008
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Edmonton
Sparkster wrote: I think you may be proving my point. I've done that. THAT is why I submitted a trouble ticket rather than select the "phone" option.

Image

To be honest, this is a problem with most company's customer service.
It got a lot worse since the pandemic started.
It's not unique to Canada Computers.

I know some have pointed out problems with this retailer but generally I've been happy with them.

Although not so much with an order for 4 Logitech laser mice I placed in January.
Four items... Black, Silver, Blue and Red.

2 Days later an email: "The red mouse is not in stock and we don't know when it will be available....."
Next day... the Black one....
Next day... the Blue one....
I logged into the account and cancelled the order.
The system shouldn't let you put things in the cart and check them out if they're out of stock.
No, I mean to use THEIR phone number in the place where it asks for a phone number. Let them send themselves order statuses. Or sell their own number to spam lists. Whichever comes first.

And it's not discriminatory any more than a company only doing business with people that can access their website using a computer (i.e. online shopping only). They're not stopping you from buying from them because you're old, it's because their business model and processes require certain technology, and if you don't have it, too bad I guess. But you might as well go after Amazon as well because they require you to have an Internet connection of some sort.

I do agree with you that their policy is stupid, but your best option is to vote with your dollars. Tilting at the windmill to try to get them to change their process is a waste of your time (IMHO), and you're better off simply supporting a vendor who isn't idiotic. Why insist on giving your money to someone who doesn't want to take it?

C
Member
Dec 25, 2015
250 posts
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Brighton, ON
Imagine the poor soul, who decides to get a cell phone, and tries to order it from CanCom.Face With Tears Of Joy
Deal Addict
Nov 12, 2006
3109 posts
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London
Sparkster wrote: They have the home phone number on the account and when I'm placing the order, a phone is right beside me to do that. But they won't do it.
It would be funny to watch the hypothetical scenario where your identity and location had to be verified by the customer using a landline POTS phone.
Sit back and watch the back peddling from the no landline crowd.
Deal Addict
Nov 12, 2006
3109 posts
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London
Sparkster wrote: To verify the code by SMS text on the cell phone yesterday, I would have had to wait until my wife got home to get it out of the car, bring it in the house, get them to send the text and then enter it.
Things aren't always as simple as people seem to think when they don't have the details.

It's amazing how many people can't believe that someone doesn't have a cell phone with them of any kind.
Good point.
I know a few senior couples where there is one household cel phone.
Jr. Member
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Jan 2, 2011
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JKKim2983 wrote: Don't want to use a cellphone like 90% of the population? Your choice. I'm sure CC would not miss your business.
This doesn't even deserve a response.

JKKim2983 wrote: CC offers shipping as well which no one has mentioned which only requires an email account.
Sweet. In bold yet. Didn't read the whole thread I'm guessing?
See post 23 on page two. First line.

Thanks for playing.
Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
Deal Fanatic
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Nov 1, 2010
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Kanata
I never give out my cell phone # to anyone. I don't shop at places that want to text me back or give out a fake one where I don't need to verify. There is zero percent chance of them keeping your cell # to themselves, It's unfortunate Canada Comp is usually the only real computer store in a lot of places. Send them your list, they'll see, maybe $800 is worth a bit of customer service.
Uh, yeah, I'd like to speak to a Mr. Tabooger, first name Ollie.
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Jan 2, 2011
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Not sure if Canadian law has similar rules or not but this is US Law on the issue:
Fortunately, it is illegal for businesses to require customers to furnish a cellphone number to complete an order, notes Federal Trade Commission analyst Bikram Bandy. But some companies may still make the cell number a required field in their forms.
Even though it's illegal, seems some businesses still do it.

https://www.infoworld.com/article/28540 ... -give.html
It's all about your privacy.
Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
Deal Expert
May 30, 2005
49009 posts
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Richmond Hill
This is a tricky one. On one hand consumers WANT safer ways of accessing their accounts with 2FA, on another hand there's people who think it's intrusive. At the end of the day, it's about what the majority of society is willing to accept and whether there are reasonable workarounds available.

I agree it would be great if there were voice options available. I'm on the fence for those who are against 2FA, though, like Tabooger. There's probably more good than harm in these situations.
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Deal Guru
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Mar 23, 2008
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Sparkster wrote: Not sure if Canadian law has similar rules or not but this is US Law on the issue:



Even though it's illegal, seems some businesses still do it.

https://www.infoworld.com/article/28540 ... -give.html
It's all about your privacy.
Read the article, and clicked the link. They SAY that "federal law prohibits soliciting phone numbers", but the link they provide only deals with telemarketing and robocalls (https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0 ... l-registry). Nothing about it actually being illegal to make a phone number a mandatory field on an order or anything else. A Google search also turns up nothing relevant. Not saying there isn't a law about it or not, but one article written 10 years ago isn't overwhelming proof of anything.

C
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Jun 25, 2008
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I posted a while back how there seems to be a free (ad supported) service where you can create a random phone number to receive SMS. Wouldn't this serve for these sorts of transactions, that is non-discriminatory as OP puts it? Or is this more a crusading type post?
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Jan 7, 2002
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MikeMontrealer wrote: I posted a while back how there seems to be a free (ad supported) service where you can create a random phone number to receive SMS. Wouldn't this serve for these sorts of transactions, that is non-discriminatory as OP puts it? Or is this more a crusading type post?
That was TextNow. It and various other similar services like Fongo, Google Voice, etc. all rely on VoIP. The problem is that some businesses that send SMS for 2FA won't send to VoIP carriers. Presumably they have security concerns, e.g. that VoIP numbers are easier for hackers to intercept or hijack than numbers operated by conventional telcos.
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bylo wrote: That was TextNow. It and various other similar services like Fongo, Google Voice, etc. all rely on VoIP. The problem is that some businesses that send SMS for 2FA won't send to VoIP carriers. Presumably they have security concerns, e.g. that VoIP numbers are easier for hackers to intercept or hijack than numbers operated by conventional telcos.
Yeah, it's definitely YMMV and I've never used it, since I don't have an issue using my own cell phone. I just figured I'd point out an alternative that I quickly found (it was in a post by the AARP for American seniors as a service to send and receive texts for free instead of getting a cell phone, and a quick check verified that it also works in Canada).

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