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Is this a legal work placement ? Your thoughts pls

  • Last Updated:
  • Apr 26th, 2019 2:40 pm
[OP]
Sr. Member
Dec 28, 2010
646 posts
250 upvotes
Toronto

Is this a legal work placement ? Your thoughts pls

Going to use blanket names below.

I Work at a huge ABC company, with work in US, Australia, Canada, Europe.
Couple of guys show up at office yesterday, saying we are joining this team.
More digging reveals, they are full time employee @XYZ company (an outsourcing firm) and came to US last year as contractors out of our ABC - NY office.
Their role is to handle work for US /UK clients. In bigger picture we all are part of global North American team, only difference being we are full-time here and handle Canadian work.
With the approval of Director @ ABC-NY office, they requested to move to Toronto office. Which I believe was sure, same time zone, doesn't matter as long work is done.

Now, XYZ - company has a small office in Markham as well , and since that's the primary employer, they did the paperwork and got them 2 yr CA-work visa under company transfer. Which is granted without requiring any labor market assessment.
For now, they are 100% dedicated to work with US/UK clients only.
There is absolutely no hiring or extra work within CA team. Moreover they themselves boasted that we had requirements in Australia, but chose Canada as it was near US and spouse will get open work-permit.

My team and myself are confused and kind of feel cheated (for lack of better word). We understand that their intention is to settle here long term (given the state of US policies) , but then why make this a covert operation.
Is it legal to perform US only work and sitting here in Canada. As I mentioned we have had many cost cuts and no hiring in our specific department here. What is the guarantee that they wont get into our work.

Being a third party contractor having already had entry to work in US, why use our (ABC) offices locations as a hop ? Moreover, they are setting an example for other contractors in their team that moving to CA is as simple as getting permission to work at a clients office. As such, all the paperwork is handled by their parent XYZ outsourcing firm, who I guess are more than happy to increase their headcount here.

I support immigration in it's full merit , but there is something dicey about the route taken here, that's not sitting well. Wanted to see whats others take on this.

and btw: I am helping them and guiding them to open bank accounts, find rentals and advise on which areas to live with families.
13 replies
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Aug 19, 2018
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Is the ABC company registered as a Canadian company for that particular office? If so, this should be fine.

A lot of the time megacorps still consider individual countries office their own entity for tax and logistic reason. Even though they are not independent, the office itself can still be considered as a Canadian company.

Of course, the devil is always in the detail. This definitely sounds a little weird, but I am afraid some random discussion on a forum won't get to the bottom of this easily unless you can provide more specific about this company.
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Not sure I understand.

I am not a lawyer, but I believe it is completely OK to perform USA only work while working for a subsidiary in Canada. If they misrepresented themselves in a different manner, or didn't tell the truth in their application forms, then it would be different, but I am not sure you mentioned anything like that.

What nationality (or passport) do they have?
Did you, or your team, suffer any loss of opportunity by them being here?
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Aug 22, 2011
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I see nothing wrong?
My company offers this type of transfer to our many offices around the world.
[OP]
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Dec 28, 2010
646 posts
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Toronto
On paper and work permit the contractors are from XYZ Ltd. (India) , the end client was initially ABC USA. So, they came to the US for ABC USA .
In a year, asked if ok to work "FROM" ABC Canada , got approvals and the parent XYZ Ltd. filled for an inter company transfer - work permit.
They continue to serve the ABC USA /UK clients from here.

We are just apprehensive to the fact that as professionals we don't get into each other work as obviously nothing is stopping them to pick local work. As I mentioned our team is global so there is understanding that anyone with .ca domain picks the ca work and bills accordingly.
Right now they are working US/UK, but nothing stops to get into ca work. The upper management will today or tomorrow figure out why 2 extra guys are picking ca work.

So perhaps the real dilemma is on how to advise someone that there is a line. Had they communicated or tried to seek local advise (such as banking, housing ) , we would all have been acquainted, and developed some understanding. This surprise and being an outside vendor pulling this kind of stuff, is causing unnecessary confusion.
Last edited by Karma2000 on Apr 18th, 2019 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[OP]
Sr. Member
Dec 28, 2010
646 posts
250 upvotes
Toronto
vkizzle wrote: I see nothing wrong?
My company offers this type of transfer to our many offices around the world.
Does your company offer within your own company A to company A .
Or you are contracted BY a company C and then spend 6 month with them and say hey I would rather work from company C's Europe location, but not let the Europe folks know about this move.
* again given that the primary employer is a glorified recruitment company that has ones payroll and moves from project to project.
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Aug 22, 2011
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Karma2000 wrote: Does your company offer within your own company A to company A .
Or you are contracted BY a company C and then spend 6 month with them and say hey I would rather work from company C's Europe location, but not let the Europe folks know about this move.
* again given that the primary employer is a glorified recruitment company that has ones payroll and moves from project to project.
It's Thurs afternoon (before the long weekend) and I still can't grasp exactly what the issue is...sorry!
Should you guys have received advanced notice as a courtesy, sure, but it's not required.
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Nov 13, 2010
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Their own company needs to help them with their shit such as finding rentals or etc or ghey need to do that on their own. Why are you helping them out?
I see this as basically them coming here cheaper worker, soon to replace the expensive canadian employees.
Dont mean to scare you but you need to check and see if your work is slowly being outsourced.
Canada is too lazy or effed up to change its laws to prevent replacements of canadians with indians on visas. Politicians dont give a damn its sad
[OP]
Sr. Member
Dec 28, 2010
646 posts
250 upvotes
Toronto
vkizzle wrote: It's Thurs afternoon (before the long weekend) and I still can't grasp exactly what the issue is...sorry!
Should you guys have received advanced notice as a courtesy, sure, but it's not required.
In short, some employee of a third party Vendor, used permission to work from our Toronto office and got his vendor company to obtain his CA-work permit.
First Issue: As per a CA-work permit, they are probably required to perform CA work right? so who's work are they going take eventually,?Our team is at capacity here with full-time employees.
Second issue: This didn't require a labour market approval. But there employer (the vendor) probably showed on paper that the end client is our canadian firm so they got the visa. Or else, why would you get CA visa, working for a US office and that too as an contractor!
Last edited by Karma2000 on Apr 22nd, 2019 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Aug 22, 2011
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Karma2000 wrote: In short, some employee of a third party Vendor, used permission to work from our Toronto office and got his vendor company to obtain his CA-work permit.
First Issue: As per a CA-work permit, they are probably required to perform CA work right? so who's work are they going take eventually, We are running full here ?
Second issue: This didn't require a labour market approval. But there employer (the vendor) probably showed on paper that the end client is our canadian firm so they got the visa. Or else, why would you get CA visa, working for a US office and that too as an contractor!
Ok, I see what you mean.
Almost like a front, which can be argued as a fraudulent intra-company transfer.
[OP]
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Dec 28, 2010
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Toronto
apnayloags wrote: Their own company needs to help them with their shit such as finding rentals or etc or ghey need to do that on their own. Why are you helping them out?
Dont mean to scare you but you need to check and see if your work is slowly being outsourced.
I am helping them as a courtesy as when someone asks you what is a good place for a young family you can't ignore them.
Not sure how to put this....
Used to listen to stories, where people got outsourced and the lesson they learned was never transfer your skills so easily or be too friendly during such situations. in the end you are a cost for the companies.
But, it's tough to be not-nice or ignore someone and try to portray a fake image of yourself.
[OP]
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Dec 28, 2010
646 posts
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Toronto
Also, if there was thing that you can work purely on US work sitting here in CA (maybe on a Canadian work VISA). Why not get local talent from local vendors here and use them for US work? Our job numbers might be good, but we do have many talented people in GTA looking for work. People who over years invested is settling down here.

This whole thing of placing ppl from India to US, then in 6 months jump to Canada (as the end client has a satellite office) is kind of fishy to me. Especially, when you continue to handle exact same US work.

This recruitment company now has now obtained an easy 2 yr visa , while only caring to have a billing candidate and potentially adding more people this route. This is a huge play on visa policies imo.
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Mar 21, 2010
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Karma2000 wrote: Also, if there was thing that you can work purely on US work sitting here in CA (maybe on a Canadian work VISA). Why not get local talent from local vendors here and use them for US work? Our job numbers might be good, but we do have many talented people in GTA looking for work. People who over years invested is settling down here.

This whole thing of placing ppl from India to US, then in 6 months jump to Canada (as the end client has a satellite office) is kind of fishy to me. Especially, when you continue to handle exact same US work.

This recruitment company now has now obtained an easy 2 yr visa , while only caring to have a billing candidate and potentially adding more people this route. This is a huge play on visa policies imo.
I know my office (large consulting company) has a few India-origin "employees" who essentially work for our US counterpart (all their jobs are for US clients, run by US managers, they basically work from home all the time because they have zero interaction with the Canadian team, even their performance management is basically done by the US), even though we technically employ them in Canada. My understanding is that they couldn't get a US visa at this time, so they need to hang out here for a while until they can get one later. It's a weird situation because they are technically our staff, but hardly anyone has ever met them and they have zero interest in anything related to us.
[OP]
Sr. Member
Dec 28, 2010
646 posts
250 upvotes
Toronto
Manatus wrote: even though we technically employ them in Canada. My understanding is that they couldn't get a US visa at this time, so they need to hang out here for a while until they can get one later.
The part above sounds fair "your company employees them" as in have them on their payroll.

The situation here is, a a third party vendor moving their employee, while they are serving our US business - the one that they originally signed for.
Apparently, our company is too big to bother and doesn't care (yet) as there is not much involvement with paperwork . This vendor has an office in GTA and did an inter-company transfer- to get 2yr work visa without Labour assessment. I can't think of a reason they were asked to show the actual work being done as long they showed they work for the Firm in big picture.

That's a disadvantage to any qualified local here and I bet there are many worthy of any such role. To add, the spouse gets an open work permit on landing as well. Good for our economy I guess, until a local graduate or qualified immigrant competes with a larger pool.

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