Automotive

Living in Saskatchewan and EVs/Hybrids

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  • Dec 4th, 2019 1:07 pm
[OP]
Member
Dec 30, 2016
314 posts
265 upvotes

Living in Saskatchewan and EVs/Hybrids

Hello rfd,

So I've been mulling a hybrid vehicle for a long time now and got into a car accident the other day where I got tboned by an suv because the lady was texting. Anyway, I have a 2014 Ford Fusion and love it, but I must admit that the idea of a suv or van, maybe even a truck, has been on my mind for a while, but I had no incentive as my current vehicle served me well.

But now I'm questioning. I found an amazing deal on a 2019 Ford Fusion titanium hybrid with all the current safety tech and all that, but it has a sunroof which literally makes my head touch the headliner. I've been thinking about a pacifica,but it's just way too expensive for us average folks at 50k+ even for used. So I'm kind of leaning towards a used dodge grand caravan, but of course they're note hybrids.

Are there any reasonably priced vehicles(sub 30k) that are hybrids for taller people? I might just get a regular ice vehicle because these evs/hybrids are either too small, or way too expensive for people pulling 70k. I live in Saskatchewan, so I know that nationally, our fuel prices are pretty good, but I'd like to not visit the pump so "often". Thanks.
19 replies
Member
Feb 2, 2018
414 posts
385 upvotes
Montreal
Maybe a gently used Prius V? (Discontinued this year).

Lots of legroom, tall greenhouse, shaped more like a van than hatchback. Probably can't get any better in terms of fuel economy and cargo flexibility -hence why they're used by taxi fleets everywhere.

Won't be as nice as the Fusion Hybrid to drive or to look at. But you won't have a weird trunk interior shape either.
[OP]
Member
Dec 30, 2016
314 posts
265 upvotes
CloudReader wrote: Maybe a gently used Prius V? (Discontinued this year).

Lots of legroom, tall greenhouse, shaped more like a van than hatchback. Probably can't get any better in terms of fuel economy and cargo flexibility -hence why they're used by taxi fleets everywhere.

Won't be as nice as the Fusion Hybrid to drive or to look at. But you won't have a weird trunk interior shape either.
Yeah I checked out the prius as well, but it's absolutely hideous and leg length wise= no bueno. I'm 6'3" and well built, so it's not the most comfortable. I like the fusion, but my knees always dig into the sides on long drives and it sucks.

I was thinking about the Kia Niro as well though, not a bad size, hybrid and okay leg room for me. Even in the sx model with the sunroof, my head still had a few inches of space to the ceiling. They're around 30k+ starting though after taxes, which kind of kills it when a caravan can be had for sub 20 after taxes. I don't know if I'd spend 10k in gas that fast to justify it.
Deal Addict
Oct 6, 2015
2463 posts
1367 upvotes
I read your message a few times. What's your question as it pertains to Saskatchewan? They aren't that popular in Saskatchewan chiefly because most driving in Saskatchewan is highway driving, and hybrids really shine in stop-and-go city traffic, of which there is rather little in Saskatchewan. Your typical commuting time in the big cities isn't that high either.

You might save a bit on fueling *but* battery replacement will easily consume that. Not to mention that independent garages often aren't set up to service such vehicles (due to their relative rareness), so you're stuck with the expensive dealer servicing.
[OP]
Member
Dec 30, 2016
314 posts
265 upvotes
burnt69 wrote: I read your message a few times. What's your question as it pertains to Saskatchewan? They aren't that popular in Saskatchewan chiefly because most driving in Saskatchewan is highway driving, and hybrids really shine in stop-and-go city traffic, of which there is rather little in Saskatchewan. Your typical commuting time in the big cities isn't that high either.

You might save a bit on fueling *but* battery replacement will easily consume that. Not to mention that independent garages often aren't set up to service such vehicles (due to their relative rareness), so you're stuck with the expensive dealer servicing.
Sorry, I guess I was in my own head. The question is what I alluded to at the end of my original post: "Does it make sense to purchase a 30k+ hybrid such as the Kia Niro if gas prices in Saskatchewan are relatively good?" I could get a Caravan or a Sedona van with much more space for much cheaper than a hybrid, let alone an EV; but I'd still be buying gas all the time. And for myself, I live in a "big city" and 99% of my driving is start and stop, that's why I loved the hybrid fusion I tested for a while.
Deal Fanatic
Sep 10, 2008
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Kitchener
burnt69 wrote: You might save a bit on fueling *but* battery replacement will easily consume that. Not to mention that independent garages often aren't set up to service such vehicles (due to their relative rareness), so you're stuck with the expensive dealer servicing.
These are BOTH 100% false assertions. You'll definitely need a new engine before you need a battery replacement. Hybrids require LESS service than ICE vehicles.

Assuming you have a hybrid and can speak from personal experience of replacing a HV battery? I call BS.

I hate when people pretend to be 'experts' on something when in reality they actually have absolutely no clue. While a mild hybrid can save you 30-40% on your fuel bills, a PHEV or BEV can save you up to 85% on your fuel depending on your usage.
Deal Addict
Dec 10, 2012
3492 posts
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Canada
Just get a Rav4 hybrid, camry hybrid or any other hybrid/PHEV you feel comfortable in while driving. Hybrid is the best way to go if you are living in a SK city and do bit of highway of driving. EV won't be as successful for us here unless you are only doing 30-40km per day because that's the max you are going to get during our winter here.
Deal Expert
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Apr 21, 2004
54485 posts
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I'm sure hybrids have gotten better since 2012.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/ye ... -1.1287734

"I tried -35, didn't plug it in, it started just fine. Minus 40, didn't plug it in, it started with a bit of hesitation, but it did start. And then -45, didn't plug it in, it wouldn't start."


I think the typical Toyota replacement hybrid battery cost $3-4k in Canada. It's around $2,500 in the US for the previous gen RAV4H.
Deal Fanatic
Sep 1, 2004
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x3fann wrote: Sorry, I guess I was in my own head. The question is what I alluded to at the end of my original post: "Does it make sense to purchase a 30k+ hybrid such as the Kia Niro if gas prices in Saskatchewan are relatively good?" I could get a Caravan or a Sedona van with much more space for much cheaper than a hybrid, let alone an EV; but I'd still be buying gas all the time. And for myself, I live in a "big city" and 99% of my driving is start and stop, that's why I loved the hybrid fusion I tested for a while.
Glad you point that out, otherwise I would say hybrid would be pointless.

If you are willing to pay over $30K....
Niro PHEV does have $2500 Federal Rebate effectively lower the price differential to hybrid version ~$2K. I assume you may have to pay MSRP tho for PHEV. Since your daily 1st 40km would be all electric, depends on the driving pattern, you could save a lot of money on gas. You have to do the math on that one, but in my case I would save roughly 33-40% in gas depends on winter/summer temps.

If you are sticking to under $30K...
Niro Hybrid has $1500 factory rebate and potentially more bargaining power. No fed rebate applies. Official fuel consumption stat is mostly a lie. Real life number is about 6l/100km. So against PHEV version, you save more $ up front but I assume you pay it back in bit more gas usage.


Test drive it first, Fusion is a pretty good car handling wise which Niro is pretty poor in this regard. Everyone's preference is different but you may not like the handling coming from a Fusion even if headroom fits.
burnt69 wrote: You might save a bit on fueling *but* battery replacement will easily consume that. Not to mention that independent garages often aren't set up to service such vehicles (due to their relative rareness), so you're stuck with the expensive dealer servicing.
Unlike EV, Hybrid doesn't live and die by the battery and the engine will always kick in to save it. And Li-Ion has way longer life than old Ni-Mh from Toyota of yester-years.

As for support, all modern cars falls into the same problem. Independent garages can rarely service all brands these days and it only get worse as they are slowly being priced out of access.
Deal Fanatic
Oct 26, 2008
6361 posts
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BC
IntrepidRT wrote: .... a PHEV or BEV can save you up to 85% on your fuel depending on your usage.
Surely a BEV will save 100% on your fuel?
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Sep 10, 2008
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Kitchener
macnut wrote: Surely a BEV will save 100% on your fuel?
Difference in cost between gasoline and electricity. Gasoline = approx $10/100km, electricity = approx $1.25/100km.

Our hydro bill went up about $100/month when we got our 2 EVs, but our gasoline bill dropped by about $1000/month.
Deal Fanatic
Sep 1, 2004
6123 posts
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macnut wrote: Surely a BEV will save 100% on your fuel?
Depends on electricity cost of your region. 5:1 or 10:1 but it's not FREE.

Sask still burns coal so electricity is cheap but I'm not sure how much they charge for riders and delivery.

In AB, typical 1000kwh will cost around ~$180 even when electricity rate is only 0.07/kwh. But the more you use, the cheaper it gets since a lot of it are fixed cost. The said, the rate here is changing back to market based, so we expect everything to go up so who knows what the new reality will be.

So if your EV use 50kwh/week, you are looking about $36 per month of "fuel". But it's still better than $200 for equivalent for gasoline.
Deal Addict
Oct 6, 2015
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IntrepidRT wrote: These are BOTH 100% false assertions. You'll definitely need a new engine before you need a battery replacement. Hybrids require LESS service than ICE vehicles.
That's not even remotely true. There's a lot more parts on a hybrid (including an ICE) than on a pure ICE vehicle.

Assuming you have a hybrid and can speak from personal experience of replacing a HV battery? I call BS.
Go price them out. Even if you buy one from a rebuilder, you're still looking at a very substantial chunk of coin.
I hate when people pretend to be 'experts' on something when in reality they actually have absolutely no clue.
Sounds like your post. Hybrids are less practical in areas for which there is little stop and go driving, and for which there isn't a servicing network available. Being captive to dealer servicing will increase the cost of owning a vehicle. The same happens to doctors/lawyers/etc. who buy BMW's in places like Saskatchewan and find that there's only 2 dealers and maybe an independent garage or two who can service them -- a very expensive and time consuming tow-job away. What might work acceptably in big city Toronto is a completely different scenario in a place like Saskatchewan or rural Alberta/BC.
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Sep 10, 2008
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Kitchener
burnt69 wrote: Go price them out. Even if you buy one from a rebuilder, you're still looking at a very substantial chunk of coin.
I didn't say they were cheap, I said you've never replaced one yourself because you don't even own a hybrid. They generally don't go bad.
Deal Fanatic
Sep 1, 2004
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IntrepidRT wrote: I didn't say they were cheap, I said you've never replaced one yourself because you don't even own a hybrid. They generally don't go bad.
Every battery go bad if you give it enough time/usage.

I believe people are still sour on battery failure on Gen1 Prius. But by Gen2 10+ years ago, failure rate has gone WAY down.

https://artsautomotive.com/publications ... us-hybrid/
Deal Expert
Aug 22, 2006
27311 posts
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I'm 6'1 and "pleasantly plump" and bought a Soul EV because
1) It wasn't $100k
2) I could actually slide right in.

It's still a little tighter than my full sized SUV but it's roomy enough that I can't complain.

I'm not sure it'd make that much financial sense for you being in saaskatchewan where fuel is cheap, but here in Vancouver where gas is routinely $1.50/L it for sure makes sense.
Plus we don't have winter here.

I paid $25k pre tax for a 2017 Canadian car (aka has a battery warranty) with 30/160k used for the battery warranty.
Deal Fanatic
Nov 24, 2013
6201 posts
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Kingston, ON
x3fann wrote: Hello rfd,

So I've been mulling a hybrid vehicle for a long time now and got into a car accident the other day where I got tboned by an suv because the lady was texting. Anyway, I have a 2014 Ford Fusion and love it, but I must admit that the idea of a suv or van, maybe even a truck, has been on my mind for a while, but I had no incentive as my current vehicle served me well.

But now I'm questioning. I found an amazing deal on a 2019 Ford Fusion titanium hybrid with all the current safety tech and all that, but it has a sunroof which literally makes my head touch the headliner. I've been thinking about a pacifica,but it's just way too expensive for us average folks at 50k+ even for used. So I'm kind of leaning towards a used dodge grand caravan, but of course they're note hybrids.

Are there any reasonably priced vehicles(sub 30k) that are hybrids for taller people? I might just get a regular ice vehicle because these evs/hybrids are either too small, or way too expensive for people pulling 70k. I live in Saskatchewan, so I know that nationally, our fuel prices are pretty good, but I'd like to not visit the pump so "often". Thanks.
OP, Ford made a hybrid called the C-Max that has basically the same drivetrain as the Fusion Hybrid but is more tall-person friendly. Unfortunately they discontinued making them over a year ago (I think it’s where they make the Ranger now) so you’d be looking for lightly used examples. I’ve driven both and I like the way the C-Max drives. The interior space and switchgear are very similar to an Escape; the outside just forgoes the faux-SUV styling.

If you do like minivans for space, there’s always the Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid. It’s made in Canada, starts high-$40s but qualifies for a $5k federal rebate because it plugs in. If you mostly do urban driving, you might rarely have to gas up at all.
Deal Addict
Dec 10, 2012
3492 posts
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Canada
i see a lot of misinformation in this thread.

I have owned 09 Camry hybrid and gotten over 410k+ kms on it. The hybrid battery is still working albeit the capacity has definitely gone down little bit over the years but it still works fine and gives very good mileage.

I have not had any hybrid related issue except few years ago in this extremely rare case where there was some moisture that build up inside the ECU after we had extremely cold weather and the car wasn't able to switch between gas and hybrid mode.

Other than that, regular oil change and normal wear & tear similar to other cars. Brake pads don't see much wear since they are used less frequently in hybrid cars.
Newbie
Dec 30, 2014
48 posts
31 upvotes
Manitoba
RAV4 Hybrid seems like a good candidate for you.
[OP]
Member
Dec 30, 2016
314 posts
265 upvotes
The cheapest pacifica around me is 43k before taxes and the Rav4 hybrid is 36k for a base model after taxes. They're both way out of my price range.

I think I might just buy a grand caravan or sedona

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