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Looking to install a heat pump - is it worth it?

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  • Nov 5th, 2021 9:15 am
Member
Jul 23, 2014
242 posts
235 upvotes
Outaouais

Looking to install a heat pump - is it worth it?

Hello RFDers,

I bought a house last year that had a natural gas furnace. In the winter months, my heating bill came up to about 200$ (which is a lot in Qc - maybe not so much in ON). And there is no AC either - just a system that pull cold air from the basement to the main floor in the summer.

I was told by neighbours to install a heat pump that would be using electricity to heat the house when the temperature is not too cold and it would also be used as AC in the summer months.

My basement is half finished i.e. out of 1200 sqft, only half is finished, the other half is unfinished ut I am planning to finish it sometimes in the next few years.

My questions are:
- is it worth installing a heat pump?
- what brand of heat pump would you recommend?
- any people you'd recommend in Ottawa/Gatineau?

Any other suggestions are welcome .. I really am new with this.

Thanks

SH
12 replies
Deal Addict
Dec 19, 2015
4373 posts
2499 upvotes
Calgary, AB
You’ll really need to talk to a HVAC engineer (not necessarily a generic HVAC installer) and potentially have some energy modelling done to get a proper answer. There is currently a grant from the federal government for this, plus grants for Heat Pumps.

First thing you should do though is roughly calculate the approximate cost to run it and see if it’s worth it economically. You can estimate your energy use by looking at your gas bill (how many GJ/M3 you use per year*). Then convert that to kWh, divide it by 2.5 (approximate efficiency of the HP) and times that by your gross electricity cost (electric rate plus all variable costs). If that’s cheaper than your gas bill then it may make sense to switch (depending on upfront cost). A HP is quite often cheaper to run, but if it only costs $200 to heat your home then it may not.

Cold climate Heat Pumps can extract heat down to around -25 now, but there comes a point where efficiency drops below acceptable and resistive heat may be needed if you remove your gas furnace - most people keep the furnace, but that means you don’t save on the monthly fixed gas fees. A cold climate Heat pump is going to be on average around 250% efficient (I.e for every kW of electricity it uses, it extracts 2.5kW of heat from the air). That’ll vary depending on temperature though. It can be greater than 300% efficient above freezing and drop down to below 200% efficient in cold weather.

Also, if you have the money consider looking at your building envelope as well - more insulation, new higher efficiency windows, less air leaking, ERV. HPs make more sense the better insulated your home is, and you’ll save more energy. Especially important in an older home, though most modern homes aren’t much better.

As for what HP brand, Mitsubishi generally seem to be the best manufacturer for cold Climate Heat pumps from the research I’ve done.

One more thing. You may have to upgrade your electrical service as more powerful HPs can draw a lot of current.


*Note, it’s not completely accurate if you have gas water heating too. You may or may not want to change that at the same time - you can get HPs that both heat the house and water. You can also go deeper and consider the efficiency of your furnace. For example if your furnace is 90% efficient multiply the total gas use by 0.9 before dividing it by 2.5 for the HP.
Deal Addict
Oct 19, 2020
1047 posts
677 upvotes
GTA
SuperHanuman wrote: Hello RFDers,

I bought a house last year that had a natural gas furnace. In the winter months, my heating bill came up to about 200$ (which is a lot in Qc - maybe not so much in ON). And there is no AC either - just a system that pull cold air from the basement to the main floor in the summer.

I was told by neighbours to install a heat pump that would be using electricity to heat the house when the temperature is not too cold and it would also be used as AC in the summer months.

My basement is half finished i.e. out of 1200 sqft, only half is finished, the other half is unfinished ut I am planning to finish it sometimes in the next few years.

My questions are:
- is it worth installing a heat pump?
- what brand of heat pump would you recommend?
- any people you'd recommend in Ottawa/Gatineau?

Any other suggestions are welcome .. I really am new with this.

Thanks

SH
In quebec, you can get a super low electricity rate for adding a heatpump to a gas furnace - have to enroll in their dual energy program and switch to gas automatically at -12c. ( or above if hp can't keep up down to -12c)

Even without that program, a heatpump instead of a/c is a no-brainer, the electricity is renewable.

There is a federal rebate, but to qualify, the furnace and heatpump make must match and be an approved match for the efficiency ratings.
It takes a more expensive, complex unit to be eligible.

There are cold climate heatpumps that maintain full capacity down to -20c or lower, but they're even more expensive and complex.

Matching the heatpump to the house and duct system can be tricky and I can't give you advice without a lot of info about the house.
I very strongly recommend a heat loss/gain calculation before undergoing this project -> the result can be used to calculate how much heat the house requires at various outdoor temperatures, useful comparing different heatpump sizes and types.

Conventional heatpumps do lose capacity rapidly as it gets colder outside, and one sized for a/c may only keep up down to freezing.
If the ducts are generously sized, a good trick - getting a 2-stage heatpump that can meet entire cooling load on low, which gives surplus capacity for heating.
Hvac advice warning - inaccurate information on forum, vested interests in selling builder's equipment. Selling dealer-only brands without being authorized is a red flag. Report to CRA if offered no tax cash-deal. If it's 2 good to b tru, it is.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Aug 10, 2004
2076 posts
96 upvotes
Ktichener, ON
Heat pump is okay for Tropical areas.
We are way too cold for reverse Air Conditioner.
Sr. Member
Feb 27, 2007
667 posts
558 upvotes
Mir wrote: Heat pump is okay for Tropical areas.
We are way too cold for reverse Air Conditioner.
I know a guy up on the Bruce Peninsula who heats a (newer) 2500 sq. Ft. home with a dual fuel heat pump (inverter driven) and the system only goes to propane around -17 deg. C according to his beestat logs.

So no, we are not way too cold to be able to heat with a heat pump.
Deal Addict
Oct 19, 2020
1047 posts
677 upvotes
GTA
von Monster wrote: I know a guy up on the Bruce Peninsula who heats a (newer) 2500 sq. Ft. home with a dual fuel heat pump (inverter driven) and the system only goes to propane around -17 deg. C according to his beestat logs.

So no, we are not way too cold to be able to heat with a heat pump.
Correct.

The actual performance data of the hp models needs to be considered, as well as the heat loss of the home.


Unfortunately, there is misinformation in almost every hvac related thread on rfd.
Hvac advice warning - inaccurate information on forum, vested interests in selling builder's equipment. Selling dealer-only brands without being authorized is a red flag. Report to CRA if offered no tax cash-deal. If it's 2 good to b tru, it is.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Aug 10, 2004
2076 posts
96 upvotes
Ktichener, ON
von Monster wrote: I know a guy up on the Bruce Peninsula who heats a (newer) 2500 sq. Ft. home with a dual fuel heat pump (inverter driven) and the system only goes to propane around -17 deg. C according to his beestat logs.

So no, we are not way too cold to be able to heat with a heat pump.
Exactly as you said, system crooks out at cold -17
I dunno the exact temps when it become into diminishing returns.
Having a Gas Heat to help reverse Air conditioner is just silly.
Now, having a Heat Pump for sake of having it...... then sure..... world is your stage.
Sr. Member
Feb 27, 2007
667 posts
558 upvotes
Mir wrote: Exactly as you said, system crooks out at cold -17
I dunno the exact temps when it become into diminishing returns.
Having a Gas Heat to help reverse Air conditioner is just silly.
Now, having a Heat Pump for sake of having it...... then sure..... world is your stage.
Except running the heat pump is a fraction of the cost of propane, and that was before the cost of propane went up 300%, followed by that for most of the population in Canada (by geographic location) it would cover the majority of the heating season outside extremely cold nights in January/February.

Does it make sense vs. natural gas as opposed to propane or electric? That depends, but if I (Ontario home owner) had access to Quebec's inexpensive electronic costs I can certainly make a case for it if you are owning the home long term.

So I wouldn't say it was silly; silly is making grand pronouncements in a thread when you literally have zero idea what you're talking about.
Deal Addict
Oct 19, 2020
1047 posts
677 upvotes
GTA
Mir wrote: Exactly as you said, system crooks out at cold -17
I dunno the exact temps when it become into diminishing returns.
Having a Gas Heat to help reverse Air conditioner is just silly.
Now, having a Heat Pump for sake of having it...... then sure..... world is your stage.
Just getting an a/c that becomes a paper weight over half the year is silly, when another unit with a few extra components can be installed that can be reversed and run off of renewable quebec hydro-electricity to provide economical heat at a very low electricity rate. (a good chunk - possibly most of the heating season - depending on capacity vs heating needs)

So is getting a regular a/c instead of a heatpump when on propane or oil heat - the heatpump heat is generally more economical even when electricity is not cheap because both propane and oil are pricey.
On an all electric setup, it makes even more sense.

Most canadians are not in the arctic, efficiency/capacity has improved too and heatpumps make sense for a lot of applications.
Hvac advice warning - inaccurate information on forum, vested interests in selling builder's equipment. Selling dealer-only brands without being authorized is a red flag. Report to CRA if offered no tax cash-deal. If it's 2 good to b tru, it is.
Sr. Member
Jan 19, 2013
708 posts
626 upvotes
Ottawa
Mir wrote: Exactly as you said, system crooks out at cold -17
I dunno the exact temps when it become into diminishing returns.
Having a Gas Heat to help reverse Air conditioner is just silly.
Now, having a Heat Pump for sake of having it...... then sure..... world is your stage.
Heat pump will always be more efficient than electric resistance heat
Deal Guru
Jul 7, 2017
10217 posts
5530 upvotes
SW corner of the cou…
I vote we should start a new and separate, dedicated HP thread. I will, eventually, be in the market for a new central unit.
I smile when I see container ships sailing past my house laden with stuff made in China
Jr. Member
Sep 26, 2016
152 posts
142 upvotes
Longueuil, QC
Get the heat pump and switch to Hydro Quebec Bi-Energy plan(~4cent/kwh vs ~6cent/kwh when its warmer than -12C, but 24cents vs 6cents when its colder than -12C)
Most likely there are less than ~20-30 days which is colder than -12C a year, but during those cold days you will have your gas furnace take care of heating(most intensive energy consumption). The rest of the year, you enjoy lower rate with both cooling and heating by the heat pump(which should not have any issue with temperature >-12C)
Deal Addict
User avatar
Aug 10, 2004
2076 posts
96 upvotes
Ktichener, ON
1chinaman wrote: Heat pump will always be more efficient than electric resistance heat
I said Gas Heat! Not Electric resistance

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